Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

[CharliePrince]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

imo you're just wasting your time, every player has different DNA and will develop differently even if you have him at the same position with the same playstyle

nothing is absolute, where would the fun be if all the players were just cookie cutter copies of each other

^ this

and I said it how many pages ago.. nothing is absolute, there are far too many variables and you people are all wasting your time trying to find an EXACT cookie cutter mold of a formula

[RedSceptile]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

RashidI did a bit of roster editing and he posted on twitter his latest sim only saw about 8 trade happen in association.

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

^ this

and I said it how many pages ago.. nothing is absolute, there are far too many variables and you people are all wasting your time trying to find an EXACT cookie cutter mold of a formula

Semi-agree.

Yes, there are many variables, and players generally progress differently.

However, I believe we're getting closer to narrowing down the biggest 2-3 key factors that determine a player's progression. And above all, we're helping create a better association experience.

And to say this is a waste of time does absolutely nothing to address association mode's biggest problem:

The league becomes flooded with too much talent 5-6 seasons in. Skilled players sit in free agency because no one can afford them. What ends up happening is 90 overall players sit in free agency in year 10 because no one can afford them. So something MUST be done to counter this.

The easiest and most effective way is through lowering player potential.

I agree - there is no universal "system" we can use to make these adjustments across the board...which is why I went in and fine-tuned every single player myself and posted the recommended adjustments. You can either make these adjustments, make some of them, or ignore them altogether.

To say it's a waste of time is unnecessary.

[CWSapp757]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

I didn't know anyone was trying to find an "exact formula". I know that all me and swagger are trying to do is find the best way to prevent the league from having so many highly rated players in Association. I don't consider that to be a waste of time at all. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion though. Doesn't bother me any.

[Reggie31]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

Thank you guys very much for all the hard work again. I am only playing the game at a friends right now but i will rent it soon and i will help you guys run whatever tests are left to run.

Alright so before i discuss the popular topic of this thread at the moment let me tell you guys something im very very proud of

I am in a 2 person fantasy draft with one of my friends and we both advanced to the playoffs. My leading scorers were Rose 42 Thorton 8 Granger 15 Serge 10 Hibbert 5 with gary neal tj ford tony allen and udoh being my key bench players. Okay so to the meat of the story I go down 2 games in the series. My team is playing alright but i cant stop Bogut dude shoots 60% and has over 50 pts each game with enough joe johnson, andray blatch, and george hill mixed in to keep me honest. Then game 3 of a 5 game series Rose comes out and carries his team in a close one hitting every clutch shot he takes and scores well over 44 with granger putting up 25. Then game 4 come out to a 10-0 lead and it stays on pace that way tell about 25-15 and then rose goes up to get a rebound and boom high ankle sprain out for 4-6 weeks. The team rallies and win game 4 by 6 points with a big effort from thorton. My team is feeling good going into game five and we once again jump out to a big lead again and boom granger out 2-4 weeks. Guess what though the team rallies and wins again. I went on to push the next series to 5 games and was proud of that. It took all of my skill and quite a bit of luck to win any games with the remnants of my team. BTW i snagged the 4th ovr pick and he is a stud 80 ovr pg but i did lose thorton to free agency.

Next i want to say that i appreciate very much what you guys are doing and i am very interested to hear exactly what it is going to take to get my rook as good as possible. What year end stats matter does A/to, steals, ppg, 3p% or FG% do anything for a point guard or is the game smart enough to pick position important statistics (probably way too much to ask for.)

[iampulse]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

trade logic is seriously bogus. Several things need to be addressed when it comes to that.

1. Way too many trades. There usually aren't more than 10-12 trades over the course of a season.

2. Seemed like the same players were constantly traded. I saw Tyrus Thomas traded to New Orleans, then the next season to Toronto and back to Charlotte before the deadline. Stephen Jackson was also on the move alot, Mo Williams, For all the associations I simmed through, it seems like they like to move Joe Johnson around, one time I saw him in Orlando, another time in Washington.

3. Never see a CPU do a 3 team trade. Is it there just for our use?

4. Trades that just don't make sense. Can't think of any of the top of my head but trading a position where a team is thin in exchange for a position where they're stacked.

I would go on but you get the point.

It really doesn't seem like you can even use the word logic since there really isn't any. It seems like they just all those trades for the hell of making trades, no real process of improving a team for a run that year or for the future.

[Reggie31]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

I have a question for the boys who have done all the research... If i got lets say kyrie irving as a 77 ovr and an 80 potential what would he max at and then what if i spent my training camp on his potential and raised it to a 90 over the course of his first two years or would it matter if I didnt raise his potential till after i raised his 3 pt rating the first two years. Lets assume he gets 25 minutes a game, 15 pts a game, rookie of the year, and sixth man of the year (granted im sure accolades dont matter.) Now imagine he is a 80 ovr with a 90 potential is it worth it to raise that to a 99 and btw assume he has the same season averages as the original kyrie. (I ask because i just drafted a young kyrie esk player that was 2k created in a two man fantasy draft with a friend. I dont own the game yet so i have to do all this research by looking **** up on forums lol so all help is appreciated.)


What should i change is there a minutes, points, assists, steals sweet spot or a line to make sure and cross. Does anyone think allstar appearances or mvps have an effect. I know some people dont care to find the "formula" but in the NBA Gms have gotten development down to as close to a formula or science as they can and I will try and do the same! Thanks

[SwaggerCoach]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

I have a question for the boys who have done all the research... If i got lets say kyrie irving as a 77 ovr and an 80 potential what would he max at and then what if i spent my training camp on his potential and raised it to a 90 over the course of his first two years or would it matter if I didnt raise his potential till after i raised his 3 pt rating the first two years. Lets assume he gets 25 minutes a game, 15 pts a game, rookie of the year, and sixth man of the year (granted im sure accolades dont matter.) Now imagine he is a 80 ovr with a 90 potential is it worth it to raise that to a 99 and btw assume he has the same season averages as the original kyrie. (I ask because i just drafted a young kyrie esk player that was 2k created in a two man fantasy draft with a friend. I dont own the game yet so i have to do all this research by looking **** up on forums lol so all help is appreciated.)


What should i change is there a minutes, points, assists, steals sweet spot or a line to make sure and cross. Does anyone think allstar appearances or mvps have an effect. I know some people dont care to find the "formula" but in the NBA Gms have gotten development down to as close to a formula or science as they can and I will try and do the same! Thanks

Minutes the only factors I know of at the present time that influences how a player progresses (other than his potential rating).

If Kyrie is 77 ovl to start with 80 pot, he will more than likely get to be around 86-87 overall...but I'm completely guessing.

[CharliePrince]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

here's something interesting for you simulators to chew on..

not sure if it was mentioned yet but, did you know Potential is NOT static? yep.. it can go up throughout a player's carreer

case in point:

SF Gordon Hayward 63 ovr 78 potential - 2 yr pro age 21

fast forward 4 seasons

SF Gordon Hayward 73 ovr 85 potential - 5 yr pro age 25

no edits made or done to him at all

[Jukeman]

^^Yea that was talked about weeks ago.

Two players with the same pot "rating" could have two different Pot "grades"

Reason for two different progression rates?



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[RedSceptile]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

^^Yea that was talked about weeks ago.

Also, More evidence that potential should be lower across the board is that a "67" in Pot is a "B-". They are not using the grade system we used to in school..

67 isn't "poor" or a "D" which mean the player we still improve nicely, may not jump 20+ points but he will gain..



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The number value isn't the only thing that gives the Potential grade. I think height and certain mental attributes play a role because iirc even if you give someone a 99 Potential it isn't an A+ plus letter grade sometimes. I think that the skills they have also play a key role. This needs further research IMO.

Also Juke badass avatar man.

[CharliePrince]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

^^Yea that was talked about weeks ago.

Two players with the same pot "rating" could have two different Pot "grades"

Reason for two different progression rates?

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actually, I was the one who mentioned that a long time ago in this thread, that's why i said you're all wasting your time looking for something that cannot be quantified

HOWEVER, MY EXAMPLE is even more different, it's not 2 players at all, IT IS THE SAME PLAYER...

I just never knew Potential went up it wasn't like that for 2k11, but it seems for 2k12 even Potential can go up as evidenced by SF Gordon Hayward

[Jukeman]

The number value isn't the only thing that gives the Potential grade. I think height and certain mental attributes play a role because iirc even if you give someone a 99 Potential it isn't an A+ plus letter grade sometimes. I think that the skills they have also play a key role. This needs further research IMO.

Also Juke badass avatar man.

Yea, I think other things factor like height weight position and even play styles

One guy had a ath play style (7'0 250 C 59 OVR, was a choops imported player) wasn't really good at anything but average at most things had a 67 for pot but had a B-

Another player (CW's draft) a 6'2 210 PG defensive playstyle was a 73 pot yet had a grade of D+ but was already good at his defensive attributes.

But all this could be a minor bug lol

I must say that the 73 pot/D+ pot guys has morale problems right now while the 67 pot/B- pot doesn't.


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[Jukeman]

actually, I was the one who mentioned that a long time ago in this thread, that's why i said you're all wasting your time looking for something that cannot be quantified

HOWEVER, MY EXAMPLE is even more different, it's not 2 players at all, IT IS THE SAME PLAYER...

I just never knew Potential went up it wasn't like that for 2k11, but it seems for 2k12 even Potential can go up as evidenced by SF Gordon Hayward

Actually it was in 2k11 but it just wasn't as noticeable because the upgrade was minor, maybe it would go up 1-2 pts in 5 years lol


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[livinitup921]

Re: Some info for those of you that like to go deep into your Association.....

actually, I was the one who mentioned that a long time ago in this thread, that's why i said you're all wasting your time looking for something that cannot be quantified

HOWEVER, MY EXAMPLE is even more different, it's not 2 players at all, IT IS THE SAME PLAYER...

I just never knew Potential went up it wasn't like that for 2k11, but it seems for 2k12 even Potential can go up as evidenced by SF Gordon Hayward

Is it possible that perhaps the computer teams are using training camps this year and are using the one that makes potential go up? Perhaps that is why some players are getting an increase in potential.