To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

[stillfeelme]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

I have to agree with the OP. The CPU does mirror your every move very well unrealistically and does not reflect real basketball but you can still get to the paint but not in a realistic manner. Speed does not necessarily give you an advantage to blow by someone you actually need to lay off the turbo if you even think you are trying to get to the paint. Even CPU centers are adept at staying in front of quick guards. Some of this is all for the sake of difficullty and keeping the user out of the paint for potential easy scores I understand that. I play on All Star but it doesn't always play realistic when you see some of this, if the help defense is right, and with all the contact you have in the paint this year, I don't think we need superhuman onball defense. So saying all of that I am in search of the right sliders that are able to represent this area correctly but still provide balance in the paint. Sim settings don't capture this correctly.

[nova91]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

Unfortunately in MP the CPU is already stupid enough.

[Ramboooo]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

Still don't get why you guys are going to jump right into all star or superstar when the game is still pretty new, and then complain that the cpu is too hard. It's supposed to be a challenge. If you're having trouble keeping up, why not just lower the difficulty? That's what it's there for.

[FedExPope]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

Its not just limited to locking down the paint. I can't get any damn picks to work correctly - there's always a guy in my face, sometimes my own teammate, when I try to go around it and its a laughable attempt whenever I try to use a pick. There's no real catch-and-shoot possibilities in this game due to 1. the glue tight D at all times 2. the lack of spacing on the court and 3. the terrible passing. The spacing issue really kills me. See what happens when you run the play called Hawks 14 Pop. Everyone bunches up in one place, and the person who is supposed to get the ball takes forever to get to his spot because of the cluster$#@! that is occuring. And it doesn't help that the players are, I guess, lazy in this game. That's another thing that is hurting the flow of running plays in this game and making the CPU look like it is superglue out there. Players above 75 in happiness, normal ratings (no chemsitry boost) are just jogging out there. Even on catch-and-shoot plays. i.e. try running Hawks 21 Up. The PF makes a pick on the SG's guy, while the PG simply moves out of the way and passes back to the SG behind the arc. Its a very simple play. Yet the SG will simply jog like hes completely indifferent to the play. Add that with the woeful whale-speed passing, and the CPU look like it is at all times covering your guy, not just when it comes to keeping you out of the paint.

It's really frustrating to experience this BS with a simple catch and shoot play and then I see the CPU powering fast bounce passes to their teammate on fastbreaks for easy scores at the rim.

[Ker Juice]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

this is spot on, threw my controller at the wall the other day, never did that before

Really?? Then u should stay away from marvel vs capcom 3.

[Ker Juice]

Re: Sov's Rant....

Pared, 23, Steve, all the other mods.... forgive me for my long rant.... you know I'm not a troll, or troublemaker so let me have this one..... LOL


I believe there is some validity to what the OP is saying. The CPU has an unfair advantage and DOES glue himself to the ball handler to play flawless defense a majority of the time. I also think there is a point of skill that a user must develop to get past defenders. You must learn how to read the defensive player's reactions. In this year's game, the reactions are much more subtle and you only have a brief window of opportunity to take advantage of it. If you see the defender shift slightly to one direction, back off, or bite for a head fake or steal attempt, you must explode through the opening. Exploding doesn't always mean pressing the turbo trigger though. Players appear to execute iso motion moves better when they have less momentum to account for especially when they have a lower quickness rating.

I have also noticed that pressing turbo makes the player push the ball out in front of himself more as well. (this isn't something in the game from my knowledge but...) If you have ever played defense a day in your life, you know if a player throws the ball out in front, he has to meet it at that spot with a great deal of momentum so you need to meet him at a spot past that to cut him off. I mention this for those of you having trouble playing on ball defense. I must admit, when I first started playing 2K12, I was more than frustrated with on ball defense, ESPECIALLY online. I have since learned that this game is extremely realistic this year. More than I even anticipated which is suprising to a veteran sim junkie like me who visits 2K and knows a few of the developers. Let me explain. If you see that there is open court to a player's left, you need to play that side to force him into the help defense. If he is lightining quick and great ball handler, you need to give him space and give up the jumper or tighten up and give up the drive. If you are having trouble overshooting the guy, you need to go into your controller settings and turn up your Defensive assist. (this will actually help your player "mirror" just like the cpu does for the first directional shifts and then you must continue the movements with the sticks).... Swallow your pride and use it at 100 if you have to. When you do this, you must engage the LT and you will see your player's on ball defense rating kick in as he reacts to the ball handler's movements. It will not play defense for you but it will help you react to the impossible to anticipate movements of the computer and players online. This was a game changer for me.

Next, you must know who you are being guarded by and be aware of your ball handler's off hand dribbling rating. You need to also take a look at your player's proficiencies. He might have a "Great" behind the back dribble but an "Average" crossover. If you are trying to cross people up all the time, it really won't be that effective. Not all ball handlers can do all the iso moves well just because you can input it into your controller. I have noticed that when I use Mike Conley's "Great" hesitation I get by defenders easier.

Look guys, WE asked for more control defensively. They gave it to us. WE asked for more paint protection. They gave it to us. WE asked for tighter iso motion controls that are more responsive. They gave it to us. We asked for more control over the post moves. They gave it to us. Everything we have been asking for (except functioning online play) they have really done a great job of providing. Is the game perfect? Hell no... are there still controller throwing moments for me... Hell yeah.... but I am the first to admit when I need to take responsibility for my own shortcommings and I have had a nice learning curve with this game even though I have been playing for 8 years and know A LOT about the game and how it works and is designed.

The crazy momentum that runs players into traffic when receiving a pass is real. It's not icon lead passing either. It's broken IMO. That crazy help defense that has you saying "Why would he do that?!!! That makes absolutely no basketball sense!!!" could very well be YOU. Change your defensive pressure slider in coaching settings so your guys will play tigher when the ball is more than 2 passes away and lower your help defense slider so guys will stay home when you get beat. If you do that, don't cry when the computer has 100 points in the paint though. I'm just sayin'......

Finally, for the guy who is claiming that he can play on HOF on default sliders or just changing the cpu shooting slider and beat the CPU regularly, I'm sorry man, I don't believe you. Either we aren't playing the same game, or you are cheesing/ braking the game some how. I can beat the CPU on All Star on the default sim sliders but I can't take any plays off and I have to coach all game. If I'm not careful, the CPU is up by 20 so I want to see you youtube prove that one. I'm calling BS on that one. And start the video by showing us your settings too...... LOL

Rant over... peace out...

CTFU @ the last paragraph.

[-DaVe-]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

While I can't speak for anyone else... "playing better" doesn't account for the problems I've mentioned, at least.

I can beat the computer playing "real" basketball up to All-Star. You have to cheese it a little above that, unfortunately. If you disagree - I'd love to see video.

But aside from that point, the things I've brought up take the game away from playing basketball and more towards gaming.

It's not about beating the CPU; It's how the CPU plays. That's all.

I used the Mortal Kombat reference b/c it's an accurate one. I'm not surprised someone would respond this way though - I do recall people saying you had to "learn to fight better" when defending Mortal Kombat as well.

That always made me chuckle.

I agree with this because on All-star i'm usually getting realistic games. But turn up the dial to the next level and the CPU doesn't miss and rarely makes mistakes....

The best setting is on all-star so far for me. Its easy enough for you to win and challenging enough to make you lose...

[Sovartus]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

I agree with this because on All-star i'm usually getting realistic games. But turn up the dial to the next level and the CPU doesn't miss and rarely makes mistakes....

The best setting is on all-star so far for me. Its easy enough for you to win and challenging enough to make you lose...

Well, considering the fact that the developers tune the game on All-Star, I would have to agree as well. All Star is the most realistic setting to play on if you....

"Don't play video games, play basketball!!"

[miller31time]

Re: Sov's Rant....

CTFU @ the last paragraph.

If this is directed at me, I'm really not bragging or trying to prove anything to anyone. I don't particularly care about what people on an internet forum think about me or anyone else for that matter. The only slider I changed was CPU 3pt tendency and 3pt success (3pt success I changed for both CPU and Player). I brought it down to 45 for both, if memory serves me correctly. I toned tendency down to a 40 since I believe it is wholly unrealistic for a team to have no conscience from jacking up a 3. Its worked out well. Teams, under 12-minute quarters, shoot around 30-40% and take around 10-15 3pters per contest.

[BroPeezy925]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

I put the cpu's tendency to shoot 3's to like 35 and offensive awareness to like 65 with their tendencies to drive, shoot mid range, close and inside or what not higher than 3pt shooting of course and their cheese defense down. Now the games running more smoothly and the CPU doesn't run the clock all the way down cause they cant find any open shot or shot they think is good and force a dumb *** shot a lot anymore. More fluid. Now if 2k can patch the trade logic and what not for the modes this game is almost perfect to a fault.

[Celtic1]

Re: To enjoy 2k12, you have to make the CPU more 'stupid'.

This is a great thread which explains how everyone customizes their own sliders to the settings that desire them best. I really, really hope a developer or admin will read this and pass the word on.

Is there anyway or is there even a consideration that those of us that play my player will ever see sliders? I mean since there are no crew or pick up games why not?

Everything discussed in this thread were spot on and bottom line from it all is basically adjust the sliders and change game difficulty to enjoy the game. I use to struggle a lot in this game but as mentioned some practice and many if I may say cheese moves mastered I can win any game I want. But, with that said I don't find any of this fun. I don't enjoy making 10-15 trips to the foul line (I play 5min qts) nor do I enjoy laying the ball up 95% of the time because defense is breading down my throat. Sure it's a win but still not enjoy it that much. When the cpu offense comes down and drains 3's back to back and then turns into robot defense how can any of us play honest basketball? So I cheese right back with the 100 pump fakes and all the other little cheap shots I can take to win.

I use to try to run pick and rolls, set screens, isolate, and play real ball. But, none of it worked because every defender in this game plays the same no matter skill level or rating. So I went from losing to winning just about every game by 20+ pts. Fun? Not really I'm already tired of it.

So hopefully sliders are on their way to my player mode. Perhaps only limited sliders where we can adjust off/def awareness. If myplayer mode had the ability to adjust sliders and customize the game a bit maybe I wouldn't be forced to do the same moves over and over to cheat the cpu back for the win.

[younggrease]

Re: Sov's Rant....

If this is directed at me, I'm really not bragging or trying to prove anything to anyone. I don't particularly care about what people on an internet forum think about me or anyone else for that matter. The only slider I changed was CPU 3pt tendency and 3pt success (3pt success I changed for both CPU and Player). I brought it down to 45 for both, if memory serves me correctly. I toned tendency down to a 40 since I believe it is wholly unrealistic for a team to have no conscience from jacking up a 3. Its worked out well. Teams, under 12-minute quarters, shoot around 30-40% and take around 10-15 3pters per contest.

that last paragraph came off like, "If I can't do it then it can't be done." Sounded kind of absurd to me. I personally play on Sim/Superstar and beat the cpu about 45% of the time. But, I don't use top teams. My last game I beat the Heat with the Nets on superstar sim. It is a great game and I definitely think it is possible for someone to beat the game on HOF.

[Sovartus]

Re: Sov's Rant....

that last paragraph came off like, "If I can't do it then it can't be done." Sounded kind of absurd to me. I personally play on Sim/Superstar and beat the cpu about 45% of the time. But, I don't use top teams. My last game I beat the Heat with the Nets on superstar sim. It is a great game and I definitely think it is possible for someone to beat the game on HOF.

Everyone perceives things differently according to their own life experiences and project them onto others. We don't see things as they are, they see them as "we are" so I can understand why you would take it that way. I didn't say it couldn't be done, I just don't think it is the way that guy posted it to be. To me, it appeared that his message communicated it being easy for him and others needed to practice to be as good and skilled as he is on the game. I simply called it nonesense, from my knowledgable position. (and I don't claim to know everything about the game either) I don't say this because I can't do it and I'm all bitter, but because my experiences with the game and countless other veteran skilled players don't support his claims of superiority if he is playing the game in a realistic manner with default sliders. (even if he tuned the 3pt shooting for the cpu)

I simply would like for him to post a vid of this masterful skill level so we all can see how it is done. I would love to learn from a master and would humbly accept pointers and instruction from someone with that level of ability, insight, and basketball knowledge. For real.

[miller31time]

Re: Sov's Rant....

Everyone perceives things differently according to their own life experiences and project them onto others. We don't see things as they are, they see them as "we are" so I can understand why you would take it that way. I didn't say it couldn't be done, I just don't think it is the way that guy posted it to be. To me, it appeared that his message communicated it being easy for him and others needed to practice to be as good and skilled as he is on the game. I simply called it nonesense, from my knowledgable position. (and I don't claim to know everything about the game either) I don't say this because I can't do it and I'm all bitter, but because my experiences with the game and countless other veteran skilled players don't support his claims of superiority if he is playing the game in a realistic manner with default sliders. (even if he tuned the 3pt shooting for the cpu)

I simply would like for him to post a vid of this masterful skill level so we all can see how it is done. I would love to learn from a master and would humbly accept pointers and instruction from someone with that level of ability, insight, and basketball knowledge. For real.

Not to derail the thread even more than it already has been, but you seem to have a rather severe inferiority complex and the sarcastic, cynical tone you use ad-nauseum can't help with learning others' opinions in a productive, constructive way.

I, in no way, shape or form, have concluded that I'm this god-like NBA 2K player. Hell, is that even a title to be proud of? That would be you drawing from your own exaggerated conclusions (in order to make an argument seem more compelling).

Its already been said that the game plays better in a more realistic sense on lesser difficulty settings. The CPU apparently resembles that of an actual NBA offense when placed on All-Star. And not once did I state that HOF produces the most realistic NBA simulation. It does not. This thread, and my corresponding post, was aimed toward defense and the ability to stop the other team. Not producing the most realistic simulation of events (though the score does actually resemble that of an NBA box-score). If you'd like to continue the discussion, please feel free to drop the cynicism.

[miller31time]

Re: Sov's Rant....

that last paragraph came off like, "If I can't do it then it can't be done." Sounded kind of absurd to me. I personally play on Sim/Superstar and beat the cpu about 45% of the time. But, I don't use top teams. My last game I beat the Heat with the Nets on superstar sim. It is a great game and I definitely think it is possible for someone to beat the game on HOF.

Well-said. My winning percentage is worse than that. I probably win about 30-40% of the time. My team has varied from terrible to incredible (I play exclusively on association mode so you can understand the discrepancy in talent from one year to another). People play games for all sorts of reasons. Some like it to be the most realistic. Some want it to be the most challenging. Some want a combination. It's not my job to judge who plays what for what reason.