Played some 2k11 today...

[Mos1ted]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

yeah, i've been trying to figure out what 2k's motivation was for making the changes they made in 2k12...if they were honestly attempting to make the game more realistic and just didn't have time to pull that off, then i'm ok with that...what bothers me is the thought that maybe some of the stuff they changed was done to take control away from the user in order to get certain stats or in order to keep the games close (like lack of contact on drives to the hoop, too many bad/contested shots going in, the existence of certain unstoppable moves, slow passing, auto-defensive control with holding left trigger, inappropriate animations which kill your scoring opportunities, delayed response on exploding out of sizeups, making my player do dribble hesitations that i didn't tell him to do, making my player automatically bite on pump fakes, etc.). when i play 2k12, i can't help but get the feeling that the game is playing me - it's forcing me to do things i don't want to do because the game is not giving me appropriate animations or good control response...i just feel like the game is leading me down a path that it wants me to follow so it can make certain things happen, rather than just giving me full control and letting me completely determine the outcome - whether that means i win by 20 or lose by 20.

i'm sure a lot of what 2k did was just an honest attempt to improve the game, but with some of the changes i can't help but think that they were made to limit skilled gamers and to help out bad gamers...rather than just giving people full control and letting them succeed or fail based on their actual ability. in 2k12, some actions were made less responsive and other actions were made almost automatic where the player on the screen just does them without the user's input. in 2k11 i felt that once i had mastered the game, i could succeed because i had gained skill and the game gave me the ability to do what i wanted control-wise...now in 2k12 it feels like the game is holding me back because it doesn't want me to succeed too much...or it wants to help me out when i'm down by allowing me to make bad shots...as a result, you don't really feel like your are determining the outcome, and this makes the game much less satisfying.

in 2k11, you truly determined the outcome, and the rules were clear - if you took a good shot you would score, and if you contested your opponent's shot you would make them miss...now in 2k12 the outcomes are all over the map, and it's just hard to make sense of it.

when you take away control and you don't allow the user to completely determine the outcome, you are essentially making a scripted sequence that is disguised as a video game.

I feel the same way. 2K11 had a steep leaning curve that even us vets of the series had to respect. I had habits that I had developed in the 11 or so years of playing 2K basketball every year, and this was the first game to really challenge my approach. Instead of taking a video game approach, I had to take an actual basketball approach. And while it wasn't a perfect basketball game, enough was there for me to assume that things would only get better in the future. On paper, 2K12 appeared to be basketball perfection:

1.) Improved post-game controls and more move variety
2.) Improved isomotion controls and more move variety
3.) Better body-to-body contact animations and collisions
4.) Independent ball physics
5.) Improved playcalling system and more play variety and options
6.) Improved on-ball defense mechanics
7.) Less predictable A.I.

And I just assumed that passing and rebounding would be better among other things because 2K has proven to me year after year that improving the fundamental aspects of the game always came first. It's like 2K definitely had its heart in the right place, but the execution just didn't deliver the experience we were hoping for and what I'm sure 2K was hoping for as well.

[Pared]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

Don't you get tired of repeating yourself most? Serious question.

It is what it is at this point. All the rehashing in the world isn't going to change anything until the patch.

Just curious if you guys ever get tired of re-analyzing and saying the same things over and over.

[blues rocker]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

Don't you get tired of repeating yourself most? Serious question.

It is what it is at this point. All the rehashing in the world isn't going to change anything until the patch.

Just curious if you guys ever get tired of re-analyzing and saying the same things over and over.

i never get tired of repeating myself...it's one of my favorite things to do.

i never get tired of repeating myself...it's one of my favorite things to do.

i never get tired of repeating myself...it's one of my favorite things to do.

[Mos1ted]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

Don't you get tired of repeating yourself most? Serious question.

It is what it is at this point. All the rehashing in the world isn't going to change anything until the patch.

Just curious if you guys ever get tired of re-analyzing and saying the same things over and over.

Not really because 2K devs lurk these boards. Over the years, I've seen first hand how comments and analysis about NBA 2K from these boards have been implemented into the game. So, yes, I purposely reiterate my points in hopes that it catches the attention of a dev. It's either that or PM them to death. I'm assuming they prefer the former.

[Pared]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

Problem is you become white noise at that point.

If you don't think these points that were discussed two months ago weren't noticed by now, you haven't been paying enough attention in your time here.

It doesn't take a video from some clown on YouTube to see this stuff. It's already known. Finding 16 different ways to explain the same thing... Ahh - it is what it is. Just letting you know your posts become less noticeable over time if you keep repeating yourself.

The guys that can't let things go once they've actually made good points tend to hurt themselves more than anything.

[Mos1ted]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

I mean, it is what it is. There are really only a handful of posters on this site who give any sort of constructive criticism anyway. The rest complain but offer no real solutions.

It's funny. When guys say something like "this game is trash" and exit, they get criticized for it. Here I am making an effort to at least attempt to explain my opinions rather than just making a blanket statement, and I still get criticized for it. If you visit the boards everyday, of course you're going to read the same posts from the same guys. The number of people who visit and lurk OS and the number who actually post is a wide margin.

You're acting as though I'm making threads about the same thing everyday. I rarely create threads, and if I do, it's actually in an effort to recognize something positive in the game or to expand ideas. I made a few threads before the game launched to ask people to post vids of some sick post moves they came across. Beluba actually liked that thread. Unfortunately, the thread died before the game launched. So really, it leaves me no choice but to respond to the numerous threads that all are about the same topic. So, do you blame the poster for following the discussion, or do you blame the 20 threads that get started daily on the same topic?

And by the way, despite the video from "that clown on Youtube" and the numerous complaints about the speed differential in this game, guess what wasn't addressed in the patch?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

I'm starting to get that 2k11 fun feeling post patch in 2k12....

Loving the changes under the hood....

[blues rocker]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

Problem is you become white noise at that point.

If you don't think these points that were discussed two months ago weren't noticed by now, you haven't been paying enough attention in your time here.

It doesn't take a video from some clown on YouTube to see this stuff. It's already known. Finding 16 different ways to explain the same thing... Ahh - it is what it is. Just letting you know your posts become less noticeable over time if you keep repeating yourself.

The guys that can't let things go once they've actually made good points tend to hurt themselves more than anything.

i don't really think it hurts to repeat your complaints, as long as those complaints are legitimate and constructive. the more you write your complaints, the better chance that it will get seen by a dev - also, when you talk a lot about a particular flaw, that just shows the devs that it's a high priority issue.

the problem is that after 2k12's release the devs have not posted on here to acknowledge which issues were being worked on...so there's no way to know if your posts are getting seen or completely overlooked...so unfortunately repetition is the only way to deal with this. people would stop repeating if a dev came on and responded with something like: "yes, we are addressing this complaint in a patch"...or "we are addressing this in 2k13"...then no one would feel the need to repeat that complaint again.

[Pared]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

That's not the case and was proven year after year.

It's a lose-lose situation. I would just think you guys bore yourselves from the repetition. I know anyone who frequents these boards enough know the good from the bad. Repeating yourselves doesn't allow more exposure despite what you think - it just paints the picture I mentioned previously.

Just an observation.

[blues rocker]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

That's not the case and was proven year after year.

what's not the case?

[Pared]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

That the devs. never post on here. They've done so plenty of times.

They are not at every random strangers beck and call. No one that chooses to post in our forums are. However stating they never post on here to acknowledge claims is false.

[blues rocker]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

That the devs. never post on here. They've done so plenty of times.

They are not at every random strangers beck and call. No one that chooses to post in our forums are. However stating they never post on here to acknowledge claims is false.

chill, man. don't get so hung up on semantics.

let me reword it then - i'm not saying they never post on here, but since 2k12 was released they haven't provided any info on what issues were being worked on for the patch.

i'm not saying they have to update us by any means...they can do what they want...but, if you're concerned with repetition, a quick announcement from 2k on what issues are being addressed would alleviate that.

[Pared]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

That's not a solution though - this is not 2k's support site.

Many of you seem to forget that. Even new users show up here "Hey 2k you need to fix Nick Young!!!"

Somewhere along the line it became less about us discussing the game to "Why doesn't 2k respond to my post? That's all they have to do."

Don't know when it changed, but it wasn't for the better. When you're only posting repeatedly to catch their attention you're in essence spamming the rest of the forums users over and over.

Da Czar did not become a source of information because he spammed the forums repeatedly. Same goes for others... Just might be something worth thinking about.

[blues rocker]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

That's not a solution though - this is not 2k's support site.

Many of you seem to forget that. Even new users show up here "Hey 2k you need to fix Nick Young!!!"

Somewhere along the line it became less about us discussing the game to "Why doesn't 2k respond to my post? That's all they have to do."

Don't know when it changed, but it wasn't for the better. When you're only posting repeatedly to catch their attention you're in essence spamming the rest of the forums users over and over.

Da Czar did not become a source of information because he spammed the forums repeatedly. Same goes for others... Just might be something worth thinking about.

they don't need to come on here and respond to individual posts. i'm just saying - maybe a month after release they could just put out a quick list of what is being worked on for the patch.

[l3ulvl]

Re: Played some 2k11 today...

I'm surprised to read about 2k12's lack of responsiveness in regards to the controls. I have not yet bought 2k12 and I'm not sure if I will, still working on an 82 game season on 2k11. The thing is, my gameplay complaint about 2k11 is the unresponsiveness of the controls and the momentum based player movement.

I don't feel like I have full control over the direction of my player, he'll do janky maneuvers while I'm simply pressing for him to go left. If the player I'm guarding stops and changes directions, my guy will change directions and body angles multiple times instead of just stopping and turning. If I'm dribbling and the ballhandler starts bouncing around in several directions it drives me crazy, just go where I tell you to go. Well that and the bumping. It takes so long to recover from being bumped, and by the time you regain yourself and try to move in a new direction you just get bumped again.

So to hear similar complaints about 2k12, while embracing the "tight" controls of 2k11 really concerns me.