Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

There is simple fix to maximize the fast break's potential and one more difficult one.

Simple - Turn Hustle slider down to 0

More Difficult - Do complete speed and quickness edits on all players to a globalized scale.

The Hustle slider causes defenders to have an unnatural speed burst back on transition D. Turning this to 0 takes that away. This will not stop players for diving for loose balls or take away "hustle" animations. It affects the crazy speed bursts during fast breaks a lot more.

The speed and quickness ratings need more separation than they currently have. Changing these globally helps a ton.

It's best, but more time consuming, to take both of these approaches.

Good to know.

I think I've read somewhere that there are roster edits out there that have increased the speed and quickness ratings separation, so hopefully those rosters coupled with the hustle slider will give some great results!

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

The Hustle slider causes defenders to have an unnatural speed burst back on transition D. Turning this to 0 takes that away. This will not stop players for diving for loose balls or take away "hustle" animations. It affects the crazy speed bursts during fast breaks a lot more.

Before the patch, the Hustle slider directly impacted going for loose balls. The player speed while going for loose balls was a direct correlation to the Hustle slider (0 being no effort and slow motion animations, 50 being normal, and 100 being hyperspeed dives across the court).

Have you (or anyone) done any testing on CPU/CPU to measure Fast Break PPG for the same two teams with Hustle slider on 0 and at 100? That would probably be the best way to confirm once and for all that the Hustle slider actually impacts transition defense.

As for the Speed/Quickness edits, they do work. They don't solve the fast break problem entirely but they make the half court game a lot more realistic in terms of fast/slow players.

[NINJAK2]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

Before the patch, the Hustle slider directly impacted going for loose balls. The player speed while going for loose balls was a direct correlation to the Hustle slider (0 being no effort and slow motion animations, 50 being normal, and 100 being hyperspeed dives across the court).

Have you (or anyone) done any testing on CPU/CPU to measure Fast Break PPG for the same two teams with Hustle slider on 0 and at 100? That would probably be the best way to confirm once and for all that the Hustle slider actually impacts transition defense.

As for the Speed/Quickness edits, they do work. They don't solve the fast break problem entirely but they make the half court game a lot more realistic in terms of fast/slow players.

I'm curious if you took the hustle down to 10 or 15 rather than zero if that would have a positive enough effect on fastbreak d while still allowing the cpu to dive/move aggressively towards loose balls? The speed edits, while more time consuming, are probably more effective.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

I'm if you took the hustle down to 10 or 15 rather than zero if that would have a positive enough effect on fastbreak d while still allowing the cpu to dive/move aggressively towards loose balls?

That would be my hope, but only if it is confirmed that the Hustle slider/rating actually does impact those things. If true, then I'd probably want to create a new way to rate players on the Hustle rating rather than a universal slider change to a very low number.

I'll try to duplicate this tomorrow if I get some time.

[rebe1]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

it needs fixing bad. I just had the cpu Deandre Jordan (speed 53, Quickness 45, hustle 64) run toe to toe with Derrick Rose (Speed97,Qickness 99, Hustle 90) from one end of the court to the other end of the court. Someone should tweet Ronnie about this.

Ronnie is not responding to Tweets regarding this apparently. He did awhile before the patch was released, but he's not responding anymore, although I do encourage everyone to tweet him about it. The game is terrible with this bug

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

One thing about editing speed and quickness for players, I would hesitate to drop quickness to low even for the bigs.

Low post players are very quick, it is the speed that needs to be separated imo.
I could be wrong but if you lower quickness for big guys you will be seeing slow motion post moves.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

One thing about editing speed and quickness for players, I would hesitate to drop quickness to low even for the bigs.

Low post players are very quick, it is the speed that needs to be separated imo.
I could be wrong but if you lower quickness for big guys you will be seeing slow motion post moves.

Larger Quickness Spread + Raised Quickness Slider = Animation Normalization

The entire point of spreading ratings is to exaggerate the differences between players that cannot be done with sliders. Sliders should just be used to find the animation speeds that the user prefers.

The Quickness rating/slider threshold for seeing the slow-mo animations is very low and it doesn't take much of a slider bump to get the animations back to normal speed for players on the below-average end of the spectrum.

[slimm44]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

Before the patch, the Hustle slider directly impacted going for loose balls. The player speed while going for loose balls was a direct correlation to the Hustle slider (0 being no effort and slow motion animations, 50 being normal, and 100 being hyperspeed dives across the court).

Have you (or anyone) done any testing on CPU/CPU to measure Fast Break PPG for the same two teams with Hustle slider on 0 and at 100? That would probably be the best way to confirm once and for all that the Hustle slider actually impacts transition defense.

As for the Speed/Quickness edits, they do work. They don't solve the fast break problem entirely but they make the half court game a lot more realistic in terms of fast/slow players.

I haven't raised it to 100 but I've done multiple tests between 0 and 50, but usually for the "eye" test during gameplay. I haven't recorded stats, but I know that the FB PPG are usully within reasonable range of the league average (+/- 7-10 PPG) and the transition game is very fluid at 0.

I'll run a few tests and will record both teams' FB PPG and how many the defense reacts in transition D with the slider at 0, 50, and 100. I'll probably only do halves for timesake.

Keep in mind, I'm playing pre-patch. PC gets no love.

[wepr3]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

Do the individual players have to be edited? Can the same results not be achieved by zeroing out the generic Hustle slider for the CPU?

[STLRams]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

So has anyone confirmed yet that putting the hustle attribute at zero opens up the fastbreaks in this game, cause I hope so. I wish that new push the ball up court/fastbreak animation lasted alittle longer also. It creates sepration from defenders behind you, but it seems to only last for like 1 or 2 secs.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

For what it's worth, I was seeing some great fast breaks in CPU/CPU post-patch using my pre-patch sliders that have Hustle at 43.

Here's one from Durant: http://www.nba2k.com/community/vuploads?vid=5fd0aa5d

I'll try to test Hustle at 0 to see if it has an impact on the running/jogging animations.

[slimm44]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

For what it's worth, I was seeing some great fast breaks in CPU/CPU post-patch using my pre-patch sliders that have Hustle at 43.

Here's one from Durant: http://www.nba2k.com/community/vuploads?vid=5fd0aa5d

I'll try to test Hustle at 0 to see if it has an impact on the running/jogging animations.

What do you have Durant and Kobe's speed ratings at? If they're speeds are the similar, I don't think Kobe should gain several steps on him in a 1/2 court race.

I just saw Chris Paul rip Jrue Holiday in a cpu game and Holiday wasn't able to make up any ground on him. They were step for step the entire way (about 2/3 court), but since Paul had 4-5 steps on him once he got the steal and Holiday reacted, he had a clear path to the bucket. This is what I like to see in wide-open break situations. I've also seen situations where a fast guy (Thaddeus Young) would get a steal and separation would increase since he was followed by a vastly slower player (Kaman, pre-trade rosters.

I'm not saying your way is wrong or my way is right, though. The beauty of this game is you can tailor it to your preferences. Your preferences may be slightly different than mine and vice-versa, but as long as the gameplay and stats pass for a realistic representation of basketball, and we're happy with it, it's all good.

I wish they would incorporate into the AI times where defenders would allow the lead man on the break to run free. IRL, Kobe's gonna slow to a jog as soon as he sees Durant has nobody in front of him and he's 4-5 steps behind.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

I wish they would incorporate into the AI times where defenders would allow the lead man on the break to run free. IRL, Kobe's gonna slow to a jog as soon as he sees Durant has nobody in front of him and he's 4-5 steps behind.

I originally thought that was what you and ggsimmonds were saying happens with Hustle lower.

I've watched a CPU/CPU game with two high fast break teams (Warriors and Timberwolves) and haven't noticed any difference in speed for the defense with Hustle at 0. Players who are active in transition defense (already involved in running back) are still sprinting back to get into position at what appears to be the same speed as before. What has changed is the jogging/running by the players who are trailing the play and still in the other half of the court when the fast break begins. These players now jog back instead of sprinting back into the paint. So basically I'm seeing a few more 2-on-1 and 3-on-2 fast breaks with Hustle at 0. This is actually more realistic IMO but still hasn't changed/removed the slide-in defenders that sometimes warp into the break away into perfect defensive position and stop the ball handler's momentum.

The other thing that I notice is what I mentioned earlier, no effort to get loose balls with Hustle at 0 and super speed dives to get loose balls with Hustle at 100. This is still a direct correlation after the patch.

It's still a give-or-take since the loose ball animations are basically non-existent with Hustle at 0. I think it's safe to say that the best value should be somewhere between 0 and 50 though based on what I've seen.

EDIT: Will try another test later with lower On-Ball Defense and lower Defensive Awareness to go with Hustle at 0.

[duhitsrandy]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

for what its worth ive been seeing alot better fast breaks using the 2k official rosters over the os rosters ive seen on 2k share, idk if they made a minor tweak with their rosters or not, maybe its just a coincidence

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Possible solution for fastbreak speed?

to YAK:

Kobe recovered very fast in that video, you can see his legs look like they're moving at hyperspeed. To go along with slider changes do you think there needs to be more spread of hustle, Def aware, and on-ball D also? I think a lot players Defense is overrated to start.

for what its worth ive been seeing alot better fast breaks using the 2k official rosters over the os rosters ive seen on 2k share, idk if they made a minor tweak with their rosters or not, maybe its just a coincidence

I've seen Deandre Jordan run full court beside Derrick Rose using the 2k's rosters. post/patch.