NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

[TalenT]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

I strongly disagree with this statement, 2K12 was a step down from 2K11 in terms of overall gameplay.



Great, another reason for them to make the game more arcady for newbies.....

"I think we're going to deliver a game that's more casual, but deeper all at the same time," said Jones. "A casual guy will be able to do everything in our game and enjoy it and think that's he's cool,


I dont even want to think about how bad this will be if true, complexity is what makes 2k what it is and making simplistic is just catering to cheeseheads

Lol I have to agree with you guys here. 2K12 is already to "newb-friendly". I think the difficulty is fine where it is. The last thing we need is for 8 year olds to be pulling off the same moves as seasoned 2K vets.

[dynamicswish]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Anybody else excited for the All-Star Weekend in My Player by chance?

[jersez]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Hilarious! A snippet of the new collision system on ESPN and we already have a complaint! smdh...and it's only June..

that's how this community is. smh

[Phreezy P]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

I don't get how anyone can be critical of any of this. There isn't even enough info to comment on it.

People saying contact in the game is bad, obviously have not played an actual basketball game in real life themselves.

[jfsolo]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Speaking about controls, it all depends on what one thinks should be the most important factor in determining how successful one is in playing sports games. I feel it should be 70% brains and 30% fingers.

Any User playing the game, if they've got LeBron iso'd on the perimeter against Kendrick Perkins, should be able to easily get by him and either score or force the help to come.

By the same token, LeBron trying to post up Perkins should have a very tough time of it, regardless of User skill. Playcalling, match-ups, execution should be what drive success, not half-circle turns on the L-Stick.

Simple controls do not make the game arcadey or cheesy. The game is made cheesy by poor collision detection, unstoppable animations, warping, phasing, and sliding players, poor tuning of how the game recognizes challenged shots, poor implementation of fouls, fatigue, and injuries.

Wanting complex controls is simply an ego stroke, its has nothing to with making the game more sim/realistic.

[chandlerbang]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Speaking about controls, it all depends on what one thinks should be the most important factor in determining how successful one is in playing sports games. I feel it should be 70% brains and 30% fingers.

Any User playing the game, if they've got LeBron iso'd on the perimeter against Kendrick Perkins, should be able to easily get by him and either score or force the help to come.

By the same token, LeBron trying to post up Perkins should have a very tough time of it, regardless of User skill. Playcalling, match-ups, execution should be what drive success, not half-circle turns on the L-Stick.

Simple controls do not make the game arcadey or cheesy. The game is made cheesy by poor collision detection, unstoppable animations, warping, phasing, and sliding players, poor tuning of how the game recognizes challenged shots, poor implementation of fouls, fatigue, and injuries.

Wanting complex controls is simply an ego stroke, its has nothing to with making the game more sim/realistic.

Knowing what moves to do in a given situation according to player controlled is what its all about. Its 50/50 not 30/70. 2k11 took both and yet because people complained about shooting and paint contact , both were simplified for 2k12 to the point where shot releases almost all have same timing and theres barely any paint contact evrn with slider changes. Simple changes are like making post ups easier but horrible changes are like adding a dunk button. As long as gameplay isnt as friendly as the control scheme i can agree but the arguement wanting complex controls is a "ego stroke" is just LOL. thats the best part about 2k bball games!!, learning all the various moves that others dont know, learning all the iso moves to "achieve isomotion", learning all the various shot releases of players and feel accomplished because you know your time in practice mode has paid off. Sad thing is people dont want to learn games anymore just pick up and play.

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Speaking about controls, it all depends on what one thinks should be the most important factor in determining how successful one is in playing sports games. I feel it should be 70% brains and 30% fingers.

Any User playing the game, if they've got LeBron iso'd on the perimeter against Kendrick Perkins, should be able to easily get by him and either score or force the help to come.

By the same token, LeBron trying to post up Perkins should have a very tough time of it, regardless of User skill. Playcalling, match-ups, execution should be what drive success, not half-circle turns on the L-Stick.

Simple controls do not make the game arcadey or cheesy. The game is made cheesy by poor collision detection, unstoppable animations, warping, phasing, and sliding players, poor tuning of how the game recognizes challenged shots, poor implementation of fouls, fatigue, and injuries.

Wanting complex controls is simply an ego stroke, its has nothing to with making the game more sim/realistic.

I agree it all depends on what they are doing for me vs. What I can do myself determines how cheesy it is. I actually like the complex controls because when executed it feels like I was in total control. I have the feeling they will assign isomotion to buttons or select the type of shot in the paint with a button. All the complex controls are LT+ holding the stick a certain way or back and forth in combination with the shot stick. As long as a user can't press one button and execute a crossover spin into an up and under reverse pivot I am ok as an example lol

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Contact in the paint is not the issue, it's the issue of offensive players making shots too easily in a crowd. In the NBA, defenders and shooters avoid hitting one another in the air for a number of reasons, but if a player drove into a crowd and shot a layup, he'd miss like 30% of the time even if no one jumped.

The success of inside shots is the issue, and the solution isn't to turn basketball into a collision sport. This isn't football.

[NINJAK2]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Contact in the paint is not the issue, it's the issue of offensive players making shots too easily in a crowd. In the NBA, defenders and shooters avoid hitting one another in the air for a number of reasons, but if a player drove into a crowd and shot a layup, he'd miss like 30% of the time even if no one jumped.

The success of inside shots is the issue, and the solution isn't to turn basketball into a collision sport. This isn't football.

Somewhat agree but something needed to happen about the lack of contact in 2k12 imo. All the complainers about 2k11's contact led to 2k12's outcome. Basketball is a physical game and not every bump/push is called in the NBA- both in the air and on the floor. I'd rather have more mid-air collisions with people falling down than animations that completely negate a defender's presence and pushes them out of the way with an invisible force field. I would not mind your idea of lowered shot %s in paint, but I think the contact animations are the only thing that 2k uses to help identify crowded shots.....

[chandlerbang]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

Somewhat agree but something needed to happen about the lack of contact in 2k12 imo. All the complainers about 2k11's contact led to 2k12's outcome. Basketball is a physical game and not every bump/push is called in the NBA- both in the air and on the floor. I'd rather have more mid-air collisions with people falling down than animations that completely negate a defender's presence and pushes them out of the way with an invisible force field. I would not mind your idea of lowered shot %s in paint, but I think the contact animations are the only thing that 2k uses to help identify crowded shots.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm4VBy8L7ys

i agee with you man, we dont have things like in this video in 2k12 because of the lack of collision. I am glad its being added back

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

This.

I hate when one of my vital players hits the floor, writhing in pain, and his team mates are standing there with their arms crossed like "all right, we get it. get off the floor."

They accurately modeled Blake Griffin. They just accidentally applied it to all players.

"I think we're going to deliver a game that's more casual, but deeper all at the same time," said Jones. "A casual guy will be able to do everything in our game and enjoy it and think that's he's cool, but then he'll get his butt kicked by someone who really understands how the mechanics work."

This is somewhat troubling. We actually need more options, such as being able to select pass type, not less. I hope we'll be able to do everything we were able to do before and more on command-- just that the control scheme is streamlined.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

I'd rather have more mid-air collisions with people falling down than animations that completely negate a defender's presence and pushes them out of the way with an invisible force field.

But obviously, the game's engine should attempt to recreate NBA players' aversion to mid-air contact. If you want your interior defenders to clobber shooters in the air, fine-- just expect to be called for a whole bunch of fouls.

I would not mind your idea of lowered shot %s in paint, but I think the contact animations are the only thing that 2k uses to help identify crowded shots.....

The game engine can't simply detect how many players surround the shooter or how close they are to the shooter?

[jersez]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

They accurately modeled Blake Griffin. They just accidentally applied it to all players.


This is somewhat troubling. We actually need more options, such as being able to select pass type, not less. I hope we'll be able to do everything we were able to do before and more on command-- just that the control scheme is streamlined.

What's the point of adding a bounce pass button if it will go to the wrong player? I just think the passing as a whole needs to be redone. They said they are working on it, I doubt it will be spot on because this has been a problem for years.

As far as collision go, basketball is a contact sport and the invisible force fields from last year were terrible. The sad part is it was random and never knew if you would collide with the opposing player or not. To me I want to hear if they have address sliding. I mean the foot planting is probably one of the most unrealistic aspects of the gameplay. Momentum is either non-existent or over powering.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

What's the point of adding a bounce pass button if it will go to the wrong player? I just think the passing as a whole needs to be redone. They said they are working on it, I doubt it will be spot on because this has been a problem for years.

As far as collision go, basketball is a contact sport and the invisible force fields from last year were terrible. The sad part is it was random and never knew if you would collide with the opposing player or not. To me I want to hear if they have address sliding. I mean the foot planting is probably one of the most unrealistic aspects of the gameplay. Momentum is either non-existent or over powering.

Pass selection would still improve things when used with icon passing, since there's no way to pass to the wrong player. It would at least get rid of the wrong type of pass to the right player that ends in a turnover.


I agree totally about foot planting, realistic momentum, and sliding. As good as the game is in other areas, it's the one glaring thing that really holds the game back, and it looks bad and plays worse. It looks especially bad on off-ball defense.

[NINJAK2]

Re: NBA 2K13 Preview - Improving Collisions (ESPN)

But obviously, the game's engine should attempt to recreate NBA players' aversion to mid-air contact. If you want your interior defenders to clobber shooters in the air, fine-- just expect to be called for a whole bunch of fouls.



The game engine can't simply detect how many players surround the shooter or how close they are to the shooter?

I'm not a game dev Ryan but I'm guessing that putting everything people would like into a game isn't as simple as just doing it as some believe otherwise all sports games would have been perfected by now. That's a question you may want to ask Beluba. Every tweak has some effect on another portion of the game making fixing things a chore. Plus I guarantee you if people started missing layups, jumpers,dunks, with no visible signs of contests or contact, the majority would complain about all the missed shots and claim BS. I would be cool either way. Plus, I've never played against an NBA pro but I'm guessing it takes more than just defenders being in the area for pros to miss shots-those shots need to be contested in some fashion.

Also, please stop leaning on hyperbole to sell your points. I didn't say anything about wanting people clobbered in the air. I'm not talking about mchale vs. rambis going uncalled, I'm talking about mid-air collisions where people collide in space and no foul is called. This happens from time to time in the NBA. You would be a tad dishonest to say that every mid air collision results in a foul in the NBA. Sometimes a player or both players hit the floor and nothing is called. This whole conversation started because you took offense to one play being described in an article and stretched it a country mile into "What the hell is 2k doing over there". One play. That you didn't even see for yourself. I could see if the writer said "People were falling down left and right in the lane with no whistles" but he described ONE sequence.

Despite all that said Ryan I want the same as you- A great game.