"The Closer" Damian Lillard

[AtlBornBred]

Re: "The Closer" Damian Lillard

The "closer" Joe Johnson lol

Wish he had hit more shots like that for us

[Bunselpower32]

Re: "The Closer" Damian Lillard

Those stats were LBJ's "Clutch" stats from last season via 82games.com (19 game sample). What I said is what I meant. Clutch on that website is defined as the last 5 minutes of the 4th quarter with neither team ahead by more than 5, with stats per48 minutes. I've been pretty clear in multiple posts in this thread. I think Lebron is clutch. You don't. We'll have to agree to disagree.



So you're trying to argue against Lebron being clutch by saying that he gets the most touches on his team and by using an example of Kobe having one game of volume scoring while inefficient? Nice. You don't think he's clutch. I do. We'll agree to disagree.



You're all over the map. You're not even looking at "Clutch" situations, but the entire playoffs in which he played. And you're trying to say that he played WORSE in the playoffs than in the regular season? Did you watch the playoffs last season? If anything, he established himself as the absolute best player alive. For the sake of this conversation, you're comparing to apples to oranges. That being said, you don't think he's clutch. I do. We'll agree to disagree.

I looked at that site, and still, clutch field goal percentage was exactly the same as his regular field goal percentage.

My point about Kobe was that just because you give me points per game, doesn't speak to percentages, and 34 point can be considered a great game, or a not so great game, depending on context.

And I was looking at playoffs as a whole, but still, there are a lot more "clutch" situations in the playoffs, so there should be some kind of difference in percentages, but there aren't. And my point about him getting more touches was that if he acts as the point guard for the last minutes of the game, he is a good passer, and he'll command a double team, so of course he'll get couple more prorated assists per game.

My point here is that clutch is nothing but something fans have derived to call what we perceive as big moments in the game. While clutch moments are nerve wracking, that is mainly because we as fans and players in those situations lead ourselves to believe that the last shot is harder in difficulty than the first, when once you overcome the mental battle, you realize it's not. I'm illustrating that except for a minor few exceptions (David Freese, aw yeah), clutch isn't a real quality in a player and in no way deserves increase ratings.

[slimm44]

Re: "The Closer" Damian Lillard

I'm illustrating that except for a minor few exceptions (David Freese, aw yeah), clutch isn't a real quality in a player and in no way deserves increase ratings.

I agree with this. As I stated earlier, I think this Sig Skill would be best implemented as a two-tiered system where players either A. perform worse in the clutch or B. perform at their normal level in the clutch. Performance is fundamentally two things - decision making and execution.

Keep in mind, this is just brainstorming. A few ways this could be implemented would be:

For players that regress in "Clutch" situations:
To affect Decision Making:
- Lower their Offensive/Defensive Awareness
- Slightly lower Shot Location Sliders where applicable
- Increase Isolation Tendency
- Increase Mid Range Tendency
- Increase 3PT Tendency
- Increase Pull Up Jumper Tendency
- Increase Fade Away Jumper Tendency
- Increase Emotion Rating

To affect execution:
- Lower Passing Rating
- Lower Hands Rating
- Lower Hustle Rating

For players that don't regress or play slightly better:
To affect decision making:
- Keep the same or slightly increase Off/Def Awareness

To affect execution:
- Give SLIGHT shot ratings boosts to players who historically perform better at those ratings in the Clutch
- Give increase to Draw Foul Tendency

[JazzMan]

Re: "The Closer" Damian Lillard

d11 I agree 99%. Pressure is a state of mind, and clutch simply is a term invented to mean players that don't succumb to the pressure. I played organized sports for 18 years of my life; you can't tell me that there isn't added pressure on the last play. Your blood is rushing and your heart pounding up to that instant when the play happens. What happens in your mind next is the key. If you think about the play, you're done. And that's what most players do. That's really all clutch is, just the confidence in yourself and winning that mental battle.

I played organized sports a lot, and I have a walk off hit, a walk off squeeze bunt (really proud of that one), and my senior year in high school i had one game tying homer and two go ahead homers in the last innings of games. Same in basketball. No buzzer beater game winners, but a lot of shots down the stretch. I did all this after I was about 13. I say all of this because when I was younger or even just less confident in my abilities, I really felt the pressure. Its a mental battle, nothing else, but its a tough one nonetheless, and one that very few guys can ever win.

So I agree that really, for clutch guys, ratings shouldn't go up, they don't magically get better, they just shouldn't go down. Its such an intangible thing that its really hard to quantify, let alone boil down to one number.

I got beaned once to bring in the winning run. That was last year. xD

But seriously, my first year of peewee baseball I was terrible. I hardly played. We had a final game in a tournament against our 'B' team (we had two dominant teams) and they put me in like the 4th inning. Well it went to extra innings and I had struck out twice. Winning run was on 3rd and I was up. Hit a ground ball to the 3rd basemen and it went through his legs. One of my proudest moments in life thus far, as I am now a pretty damn good baseball player in my mind.

I agree that there is not really such a thing as a clutch player. Sure, you can feel pressure in the closing moments of a game, but it's all in your head. Your ability doesn't just suddenly leave you for a brief moment. It's still there. You just have to believe that you can achieve really. Just my two cents.

[Find_the_Door]

Lillard AGAIN tonight in overtime "closing" the game. Hit a nice jumper, then a runner the following possession... then gets a steal and gives it up to Hickson for an assist. He single-handedly blew the game wide open propelling the Blazers to an impressive 5-0 overtime record.

He's played a large role in Portland winning 11 of their last 14.

[Find_the_Door]

Re: "The Closer" Damian Lillard

Here's the steal I was referring to, the other two plays I'll upload later when I get home to my DVR.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4Nn9WXS_fPk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


This was immediately after making two clutch buckets to give them a 4 point lead.

[InthePaint]

Re: &quot;The Closer&quot; Damian Lillard

Didnt he miss the final shot and then they got sent into overtime? And then hits in OT?

[Bunselpower32]

Re: &quot;The Closer&quot; Damian Lillard

Didnt he miss the final shot and then they got sent into overtime? And then hits in OT?

So what you're saying is that on last second shots a 43% shooter hit two out of three?

Hmmm......

EDIT: Not sure why I said two out of three, I meant one out of two...

[InthePaint]

Re: &quot;The Closer&quot; Damian Lillard

So what you're saying is that on last second shots a 43% shooter hit two out of three?

Hmmm......

Closers need Overtime?

[Bunselpower32]

Re: &quot;The Closer&quot; Damian Lillard

Closers need Overtime?

Ooooh nice one.

Seriously, two "clutch" shots. One made, one missed. Not really clutch.