Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

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  • JerzeyReign
    MVP
    • Jul 2009
    • 4847

    #16
    Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

    Originally posted by Ramboooo
    I said this all b4, but I think there's 2 schools of thought for "sim." Sim playing or Sim environment. Sim players yeah 2 guys could agree to play by a set of rules or try to play as realistically as possible. 2nd one is Sim environment, which pretty much replicates the rules / physics / action reaction of the sport. I'm cool with #2. As long as contesting a shot = affects shot %, or turboing = fatigue, I'm cool with that. Cuz then in that case if I choose to play sim / realistically, I'm rewarded for it. The game can't control how you play, but it could control whether realistic play is rewarded and unrealistic play punished.
    You shouldn't need rules to play a game that is meant to be a simulation. We should be able to pick up the game and just play because anything we do will resemble basketball.

    Sim gamers add those rules to cover up the flaws in the game. Every single rule is to avoid a flaw. There is only one thought of sim - just multiple rule sets. Sometimes you have to pick and choose your battles in that department.
    #WashedGamer

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    • Vni
      Hall Of Fame
      • Sep 2011
      • 14833

      #17
      Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

      Originally posted by JerzeyReign
      You shouldn't need rules to play a game that is meant to be a simulation. We should be able to pick up the game and just play because anything we do will resemble basketball.

      Sim gamers add those rules to cover up the flaws in the game. Every single rule is to avoid a flaw. There is only one thought of sim - just multiple rule sets. Sometimes you have to pick and choose your battles in that department.

      Well play us because we don't add rules. There is no rules when we play. If any sim guy score 90 out of his 92 points in the paint against me, I'll applaud him and go back to practice.

      Play on hall of fame sim, while not perfect it's pretty good.

      People have the tools to play the game the way they want, they're just lazy and rather complaining.

      If people where driving backwards in the best driving simulation ever made it would still look incredibly arcadey. Stop playing twelve years olds who know nothing about basketball.
      Last edited by Vni; 03-04-2013, 02:35 PM.

      Comment

      • Streaky McFloorburn
        Rookie
        • Aug 2012
        • 279

        #18
        Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

        Originally posted by JerzeyReign
        Thats a good point but why add something without a proper counter?
        I don't think they do this intentionally. I'm just speculating here, but I think sometimes the testing process is too logical. For example, most of the post moves have highly effective counters, but the up-and-under was a disaster in 2k12 and still slightly overpowered in 2k13. It may be that they assumed the offensive player just wouldn't regularly attempt the under if the defender didn't bite on the up. I think a lot of things without proper counters have to do with this sort of thinking.

        A real basketball player will make decisions based on what they anticipate to be true, but most 2k players will keep trying to attack even if they run into a brick wall a dozen times before they finally break through it.
        It may be that they underestimated players' tunnel vision and willingness to stick with plan 'A' well past the point of absurdity, proving that some counters which seemed effective at first can be broken by people who don't think like a basketball player.

        Originally posted by JerzeyReign
        Why add the right stick dribble moves but allow everyone to do the same ankle breaking moves?
        Prior to 2k13's release, Mike Wang stated that he wasn't able to achieve his full vision for RS dribbling in year one due to time constraints, and promised noteworthy additions/refinements in 2k14. Only time will tell what exactly that entails, but I tend to put more faith in something coming directly from him than information filtered through one of 2k's community liaisons.

        In general, I believe that 2k11 was the climax of a concept which they felt wasn't sufficient to be built upon going into the next-gen consoles. They had to start experimenting with some ideas that might start out rough but would work well with a little extra processing power and/or development time. I know we want each new edition to set the gold standard, but I think (and publishers obviously do as well) that playing it safe by building off of the last-best-loved version is not the ideal way to achieve long-term success.

        I also want to remind everyone who mentions lack of competition, that 2k didn't know EA wasn't going to bring their product to market this year or when Elite was cancelled. Only 2k12 was developed in a cycle with an assumed monopoly on the hoops videogame market.
        Last edited by Streaky McFloorburn; 03-04-2013, 03:40 PM.
        "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism, by those who don't have it." - George Bernard Shaw

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        • stillfeelme
          MVP
          • Aug 2010
          • 2407

          #19
          Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

          Ranked games are so anti-sim in so many ways. They made it this way to cater to the largest demographics the casual gamers. The game as a whole just lacks realistic defense that part stands out. 2k just give us reasonable methods to play sim for ranked games

          Comment

          • Optik
            MVP
            • Aug 2012
            • 1025

            #20
            Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

            Originally posted by Streaky McFloorburn
            I don't think they do this intentionally. I'm just speculating here, but I think sometimes the testing process is too logical. For example, most of the post moves have highly effective counters, but the up-and-under was a disaster in 2k12 and still slightly overpowered in 2k13. It may be that they assumed the offensive player just wouldn't regularly attempt the under if the defender didn't bite on the up. I think a lot of things without proper counters have to do with this sort of thinking.
            The foot-planting for the post game in 2K13 is horrific compared to 2K11 and before.

            <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PQaqBjFicDk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

            Anyway, 2k cannot seriously regard themselves as a basketball simulation when the sidelines and baselines still have forcefields, which are basically holding the hand of the user, to cover bad play. It's still an arcade game.
            Last edited by Optik; 03-04-2013, 06:56 PM.
            Originally posted by Dogslax41
            Most people that are asking for a simulation game don’t really want a simulation game because its too hard.

            Comment

            • TalenT
              Pro
              • Sep 2009
              • 713

              #21
              Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

              Originally posted by Ramboooo
              I said this all b4, but I think there's 2 schools of thought for "sim." Sim playing or Sim environment. Sim players yeah 2 guys could agree to play by a set of rules or try to play as realistically as possible. 2nd one is Sim environment, which pretty much replicates the rules / physics / action reaction of the sport. I'm cool with #2. As long as contesting a shot = affects shot %, or turboing = fatigue, I'm cool with that. Cuz then in that case if I choose to play sim / realistically, I'm rewarded for it. The game can't control how you play, but it could control whether realistic play is rewarded and unrealistic play punished.
              I cosign this 100%! You can only blame the players to an extent. It's 2K's job, IF it considers itself sim, to encourage realistic things to happen in the game. If a guy passes the ball into a crowd it should be intercepted (or something else, depending on the situation). To answer the OP's question...It's beginning to be less & less sim IMO. I enjoy running plays, walking the ball up the court & running a well oiled, efficient offense. Online games will be having none of that. Running side to side holding turbo until you get an opening seems to work a lot better. In order to have players play the way basketball was meant to be played you have to discourage unrealistic actions. Online games don't do this....and MyTeam is even worse!!! Lol Have you guys played this mode? It's a headache waiting to happen!
              "I BALL FOR REAL, YALL DUDES IS SAM BOWIE."

              XBOXONE GT: TalenT3Point0

              Comment

              • MarvinOida
                MVP
                • Feb 2012
                • 4859

                #22
                Originally posted by LoudMouthHoops
                Who says that they have to bring LOBBIES back in order to give Sim gamers what they want....? That being an online Sim experience at a higher difficulty level in games against other like-minded gamers.

                Don't tell me it "can't" be done, 2K....because it's being done RIGHT NOW. 2K has separate game matchups for Quick Matches, Quick Match Team Up, and MyTeam.

                Why don't they just add ONE MORE....??

                My suggestion is to call it HARDCORE Mode. This takes the words "sim" and "casual" out of the way. There is the regular way to play the game(what sim guys call "casual" now on a lower or medium difficulty setting)...and then there is the HARDCORE way - more of a true Sim option on HOF difficulty.

                Why is this so DIFFICULT?

                The fact is....it's not.
                The problem is that some "causal" can access the mode and still cheese it. May not be hard to add, but at this point, it seems kinda ridiculous to me. Unless there's a couple of requirements to play the mode, it's not really special. "Hardcore" will actually IMO, appeal to more "Causals" then the word "Simulation." "Hardcore" has an arcade sound to it. I would say if a causal cheeser entered "Simulation" and the game suddenly notices the players style, they get kicked. But, that is also hard to track/do since its possible that system can be broken.

                Comment

                • Rockie_Fresh88
                  Lockdown Defender
                  • Oct 2011
                  • 9621

                  #23
                  Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

                  I know u guys say its the player fault but 2k can improve more.

                  Limiting the dunks in traffics .
                  Tone down affects of rubberbanding
                  More blocks around paint .
                  More charges
                  #1 Laker fan
                  First Team Defense !!!

                  Comment

                  • iRepIndiana
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2012
                    • 1974

                    #24
                    Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

                    Deff isn't sim feel playing online.

                    We need lobbies back.

                    Comment

                    • yungsta404
                      Pro
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 547

                      #25
                      Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

                      the offense is simply overpowered.

                      its funny how the developers were talking about how they focused on balancing offense and defense this year..

                      <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/E3D53DipJ2o" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>
                      Last edited by yungsta404; 03-05-2013, 12:50 AM.

                      Comment

                      • sreckless
                        Rookie
                        • Mar 2012
                        • 342

                        #26
                        Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

                        Originally posted by Optik
                        Anyway, 2k cannot seriously regard themselves as a basketball simulation when the sidelines and baselines still have forcefields, which are basically holding the hand of the user, to cover bad play. It's still an arcade game.
                        I wouldn't mind the force fields as much if you let the defense have them too.

                        The way the game plays now, the offensive user can dribble around at top speed and bounce off the baseline force field, while the defender has to perfectly thread the needle to stay in position or else the dribbler slides past him.

                        If it's there for the offense, at least when I'm the defender let me use it so I can close off the baseline without sliding out of bounds.

                        --

                        Oh the whole, though I don't see how they're going to ever get the offense/defense balance past a certain threshold. For the average player, turnovers and offensive fouls should be increased by about 500 percent. For the "casual" player, more like 2,000 percent.

                        I'm sure they could make that game but they couldn't sell it.

                        Comment

                        • I am disappointed
                          Rookie
                          • Feb 2013
                          • 125

                          #27
                          Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

                          I used to take up for 2k but I can't anymore smh Online is a joke this compared to 2k11.

                          This is a 5 on 5 version of NBA Jam !!!

                          When I play games online it feels like I have no control over whether I win or not its like its up to 2k. I could be playing great defense but yet I get jumped over and dunked as if that happens everyday in the NBA smh.

                          I can take open spot up jumpers that I ran a great play to set up and miss but then my opponent can come down court an dribble side to side an shoot a 3 and its cash...really 2k ???

                          Euro step 3's going in at a high rate smh. Alley oops being tipped by point guards who aren't even leaving the floor to deflect them !

                          How in God's name can I play a FULL game and NOT SHOOT 1 FREE THROW ? How is that sim ?

                          This game is horrific online, I know I know "play with sim friends" but their not always on, and sometimes i just want to get a quick game in, also you can't play with friends in MYTeam mode (don't get me started on that).

                          This game is just a 5 on 5 version of NBA JAM

                          Comment

                          • Taer
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2011
                            • 1432

                            #28
                            Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

                            Originally posted by Streaky McFloorburn
                            ...
                            In general, I believe that 2k11 was the climax of a concept which they felt wasn't sufficient to be built upon going into the next-gen consoles. They had to start experimenting with some ideas that might start out rough but would work well with a little extra processing power and/or development time...
                            I believe this is spot on. To increase the sim mechanics, I think 2k had to redesign and re-implement certain mechanics, some of which they have not had any success in doing so yet.

                            I get frustrated with the online experience to the point that I give up on it every year, both because of the mechanics and the environment.

                            One aspect that would greatly add to the sim environment for me would be if 2k went back to their presentation roots. The earlier versions of 2k actually immersed me more with their presentation - the newer versions seem to jar me back to the "reality" that this is just a game much more.

                            Comment

                            • ksuttonjr76
                              All Star
                              • Nov 2004
                              • 8662

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Optik
                              How many more times does it need to be said? They aren't bringing lobbies back (THEY SAID SO THEMSELVES), mainly because most people didn't use them, for good reason too, since when they had lobbies, it took so long to get a game and it was difficult to connect to someone.
                              Link?

                              Sent from my XT901 using Tapatalk 2

                              Comment

                              • basketballfreak24
                                Rookie
                                • Apr 2011
                                • 92

                                #30
                                Re: Online Ranked Users: Do You Still Look At NBA 2K As A Sim Game?

                                why is 2k13 online quick ranked not sim this year? lets see...

                                1)the offensive player has the advantage when he can run into the defender and create space for a jumper everytime without penalty.

                                2)the "popular" teams have magnetic abilities on defense and even when you shouldve slid past their body, you dont. i thought i was playing against player ratings but its more to it than that.

                                3)2k hasn't mastered the balance between general passes and lead passes in the paint. this year they dumbed down passing which makes lead passing harder but makes passing in general slow. add in the fact that your cpu players like to float directly behind the defender when he should go the basket makes it worse.

                                4)the stepback 3 cheese. period.

                                5)if i use carmelo/kobe/durant and do up and unders in the paint all game long, im going to score 80% of the time or pass to the open man under the rim or at the 3 pt line no matter what D you play.

                                here's to 2k14 and hoping they stop bringing these new innovations and actually improve on what they have for a change because patches never address all the issues. period.

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