So ... Do you like the signature skills?

[8KB24]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

I like them because they differentiate players. For example Jamaal Crawford is great pull up shooter but he isn't great at shooting with a player in his jaw (not saying he is bad at it), but players like Kobe and Allen live from it, and they deserve Deadeye while Jamaal doesn't.
Or they could use levels like in My Career and Jamaal would have Deadeye lvl 1 or 2 and etc.

[CUTigers2324]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

I like them in a casual, online mode like MyTeam that's sort of explicitly meant to be arcadey, but they are absolutely abysmal if you are looking for a sim experience in association. We're talking utterly atrocious.

Finisher is just ridiculously unrealistic - nobody makes well-contested layups at as high a clip as anyone with finisher does. The animation looks RIDICULOUS 95% of the time, with the shooter getting completely stopped, throwing up a wild "layup" and it bouncing in.

Closer is pointless, because there are clutch ratings already built into the game, and when activated in conjunction with a Floor General, it makes certain players (read: Carmelo Anthony) Basketball Jesus. I'm sorry, but just because Jason Kidd happens to be on the court with Melo in the 4th quarter doesn't mean that Melo is suddenly the greatest jumpshooter in the history of the NBA in real life. That's just asinine and unrealistic.

I could go on and on and on but no, in general, I've never liked them and don't really think they're necessary.

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

I was going to go through them all myself, but lost what I was writing halfway through. I just wanted to respond to a few things in bold throughout your post and then add a bit here.

Closer should be divided between Shot Creator and Spot-Up Shooter.
Penalty reductions relate much better than boosts to the factors that most players perceived as clutch bring to the table. They either make open shots reliably (Robert Horry/Spot-Up) or create shots reliably, regardless of the end result (Kobe).

Defensive Anchor and Floor General should boost teammate defensive/offensive awareness and nothing more.

I think their explanations for some of the skills (like Chase Down Artist) made a lot of sense initially, but without expanded physics interactions or at least perfectly scaled ratings, they still can't work as well as they ought to.

I mean, if you get right down to it, you shouldn't even need block or steal ratings, let alone extra skills related to them. Blocks are a function of height, arm length, vertical, hustle, and defensive awareness (patience/timing). Steals are a function of arm length, quickness (of both hands and feet), hustle, and defensive awareness (again, patience/timing).

If they can just improve foot-planting, then add arm length and hand tracking, they'll have defense covered and be able to remove two ratings along with all of the skills related to those ratings. It would save them a lot of regular maintenance, to say the least.

Honestly, I don't see the point in using sig skills...they seem redundant to me because of already existing ratings. If certain skills simply give a bonus to some ratings, 2k could increase them in the first place...But flashy sig skill names can be marketed in a better way I suppose...

Finisher,Acrobat - Shoot in traffic, Layup/Dunk, Strength/Vertical

These skills reduce penalties, they don't give boosts. Shot in traffic applies to contested shots, not contact shots, so for these to be covered entirely by ratings we'd need new Contact Shot and Change Shot ratings.

Spot Up Shooter - 3pt rating, shot release animation, hot spots

Again, this is a penalty reduction based on very specific criteria being met. Like the two above, and Shot Creator, it's complimentary rather than redundant. I don't believe the game needs it, but as long as there are some unnaturally late perfect releases that don't match up at all with the feel/appearance of the shot, I don't think it can be seen as negative.

I would also like to see some sort of defensive positioning/shot contest feedback available as a counterpart to the offensive shot feedback. Right now you can only figure out how good your shot contests are in offline PVP matches.

Corner Specialist - There have been individual hot spots for years. Pointless....

Yes. This one is garbage. Why should one area of the floor receive special treatment? What, no Wing/Elbow/Top of the Key/Left Block specialist? They may as well add Free Throw Specialist.

Post Proficiency, Ankle Breaker - This is where 2k really dumbed the game down. In 2k12 we had individual ability levels for different types of post moves, shots and dribble animations. In other words, players were able to be effective at some go-to moves, but mediocre or bad at others. That is what signature skill should look like

I'm completely with you on Post Proficiency. Even different fakes should have their own ratings.

I'm not completely sure if I agree about Ankle Breaker though, at least for year one of the dribble stick. I think this was more growing pain than dumbing down. I hope next year it will be tied to specific dribble packages.

2k removed this great system and replaced it with 2 global attributes instead. Post proficiency means a player will get a bonus on everything he does in the post, Ankle Breaker allows us to spam iso moves until the falling down animation is triggered.
So 2k actually removed true signature skills we already had in previous games and replaced them with dumbed down gimmicks.

Dimer, Post Playmaker - Appears to influence the same values the passing rating already does. Better would be to break down passing into different categories like simple, flashy, passing out of traffic and so on. Would help to differentiate old school PGs from the more modern combo guards.

Yes to both.
And good passers at the post positions have been horribly underrated for years. It's the same positional bias that has the speed ratings all messed up.

Alley-Ooper - Is nothing more than a boost to the passing attribute. So why is it a separate gimmick...nice marketing once again.

For the most part, the best overall passers are also the best alley-oop passers, but there are a few exceptions, and I don't think that this one or Break Starter are nuanced enough to demand the full range of a separate rating. Generally, guys seem to be particularly good at these passes, or not try them much at all. For that reason, I'm okay with those two skills, but only if the base success rates are tuned properly.

Brick Wall - Strength and Hustle rating...now if the efficiency of screens is already influenced by a sig skill, 2k should use a distinct rating for the ability to set a screen instead of this magical power you either have or not.

Agreed. It's especially troubling in the case of guards who are/were excellent screen setters. I don't want to waste 1 of 5 Sig Skills on Brick Wall for John Stockton.

Anti Freeze - Is called consistency and has been there for years...


Dont want to do this for every sig skill, but you get my point. Most of the effects are situational modifiers to already existing ratings, so I cant see any reason to use sig gimmicks. Sounds cool and impresses some people, but if you look at the actual effects of this stuff, its not that great.

And again, we had true signature abilities in 2k12. They were removed and replaced by these flashy sounding labels dumbing the game down.

[hear me now]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

I like spot up shooter,and I think it makes a lot of sense.

[Paul Pierce_OS]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

For a guy who does nothing but criticize others , you sure cant handle any in return.

On Topic:

What Signature skills could 2k14 add if any ?

Please GTFO, honestly saying I can't handle any criticism in return when I deal with it everyday. You want to call me a baby yet you go around editing your post like a two year old and post in my threads to make a point.

[stillfeelme]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

slapping rebounds back out to the perimeter should be tied into Scapper, Hustle Points or be it's own sig skill if they expand the 5 sig skill limit.

that action should find it's way into 2K14 one way or another.

Yes I had this in the wishlist two years in a row. I hope it makes it realistically not scripted tap outs. Sometimes the tap outs don't work and the other team gets a fast break.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

Please GTFO, honestly saying I can't handle any criticism in return when I deal with it everyday. You want to call me a baby yet you go around editing your post like a two year old and post in my threads to make a point.

Let the record show YOUstarted with me. I'm Done. Stay on Topic or Dont Post if you are going to contribute to the thread. I could care less how u feel. This isn't the first time you attacked me. I PM'd you trying to settle it you didn't respond. So drop it and whatever beef you have with me it's irrelevant.

Anyway after some of you guys post I do like how role players stand out more . Some of them I still feel are a bit on the arcadey side.

[Paul Pierce_OS]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

Let the record show YOUstarted with me. I'm Done. Stay on Topic or Dont Post if you are going to contribute to the thread. I could care less how u feel. This isn't the first time you attacked me. I PM'd you trying to settle it you didn't respond. So drop it and whatever beef you have with me it's irrelevant.

Anyway after some of you guys post I do like how role players stand out more . Some of them I still feel are a bit on the arcadey side.

I never got a PM from you that is a complete lie. I could give a **** less how you feel either.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

I never got a PM from you that is a complete lie. I could give a **** less how you feel either.

Bro lets just drop it . I'm Serious now.

Edit: wait you didn't get the PM'S ? Oh ****

[stillfeelme]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

Closer is so overdone it is funny. That is the one I don't think should not be in the game. I like most of the them but closer shouldn't even be in the game and the way they implemented is just too much. I would rather it be random when players hit game winners or take over in the 4th. Finisher is another one that is just done too much to the point where the sig skill over powers smart basketball or realistic baskeball and blockers become ineffective to let the person with the sig skill "win" the situation.

[MarvinOida]

Bro lets just drop it . I'm Serious now.

Edit: wait you didn't get the PM'S ? Oh ****

OHHHH man you got yourself into a deep hole...

Anyways, I'm fine with SS, but Closer is slightly off, you don't auto-clutch usually someone gets hot AND then you become clutch. That's what Closer/Go To Guy/Whatever it should be called, should do.

[miamibigthree]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

problems here too? lol marvin check the OS SiM Collab Roster by Paul_Pierce, check the last few pages... me and paul pierce annihilate him LOL

[keshunleon]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

I think Sig skills are a good idea but 2K need to make them realistic. Most of them don't work or rarely work at all.

The defensive skills are trash!

[mango_prom]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

These skills reduce penalties, they don't give boosts. Shot in traffic applies to contested shots, not contact shots, so for these to be covered entirely by ratings we'd need new Contact Shot and Change Shot ratings. [/B]

Exactly, these ratings would be a fantastic addition. And that's exactly my point...if 2k already modifies some penalties with a singular value (=sig skill)
it should be possible to use a scaled editable rating instead. At least for all the sig skills involving shot penalties.

Again, this is a penalty reduction based on very specific criteria being met. Like the two above, and Shot Creator, it's complimentary rather than redundant. I don't believe the game needs it, but as long as there are some unnaturally late perfect releases that don't match up at all with the feel/appearance of the shot, I don't think it can be seen as negative.

About spot up...the thing is that looking at online gameplay, abusing guys likes Korver/Novak is a big issue. Now I'd argue that the whole concept of a spot up sig skill makes not that much sense.
Look at a player like Novak or Klay Thompson, they are not effective because they'll hit at a better clip than other guys no matter how bad their form or release actually is in certain situations (which is what the spot up skill does, you can jack it up and get a penalty reduction for bad timing),
but because their quick release causes defenders to be late to contest in the first place.
I would really like a spot up shooting rating with your contested shot skill idea as some kind of modifier for that.

Yes. This one is garbage. Why should one area of the floor receive special treatment? What, no Wing/Elbow/Top of the Key/Left Block specialist? They may as well add Free Throw Specialist.

That's something I don't get... why can't 2k simply make hot zones editable for everyone? If you really want a "corner specialist" or "post proficiency", simply turn these areas on the court into hot zones....

I'm not completely sure if I agree about Ankle Breaker though, at least for year one of the dribble stick. I think this was more growing pain than dumbing down. I hope next year it will be tied to specific dribble packages.

I'm still on the fence about the dribble stick in general. But players shouldn't be able to do every move in the game with the same efficiency. So no matter if 2k14 wil use the same iso system or not, the removal of indiviual move abilities is not a great idea. Didn't we even have different levels for stuff like eurosteps and spin layups in 2k12?


You make very good points and there is a case to be made for sig skills being quite useful. Especially the defensive ones like chasedown, hustle points and bruiser are something I like a lot. The same with dimer used for good passing big men. I think it's overpowering for guards, but for guys like KG/Duncan and also point forwards like Lebron/Bird/Pippen/Iggy it's the best way to increase their ingame assists without having to jack up ther passing rating making them low turnover machines.

[2kgamer93]

Re: So ... Do you like the signature skills?

I mean the sig skills are ok i guess, they should an unlimited range sig skill for people who can shoot the ball way beyond 3 point line.