2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

[Vni]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

You want off ball movement to set up some pick n rolls but not after its already taking place. Why is it my team will space out perfectly on a low post play, but on a pick n roll my guys sleepwalk? And calling iso/space floor does not have enough of an impact. Also, if I have a stretch 4 in the game, he should be at the 3 pt line. So frustrating!!

Why would you want a random virtual character with an IQ of 12 to decide when he should come and do initiate a p'n'r with the ball handler?

It should always come from your input or it will always mess up the spacing.

[ffaacc03]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Don't forget this thread when the game comes out. #SimNation

Just in case ...

Just try and be sure that they dont go into extremes ... again.

I mean, we are just looking for offball movement with context, like:
- If you drive, teammates clear
- If you are posting up, the same
- If you lost your dribble or are being doubleteamed, teammates move into better position to receive the pass.
- The offball position of players must be dependent on where the ball handler is and at the same time, on the players tendencies (hotspots) ... i.e: dont want to see Kendrick Perkins often behind the 3pt line.
- If a play brokes, I want to either see spacing for ISO or spacing for a pick & roll (or pop) ... maybe relating this to the tendencies of whoever has the ball.

When designing plays, spacing is a must and its offball movement of the players should be with some purpose in relation to such play ... players shouldnt cut in front of your path on a P&R, they shouldnt be near you when doing a post up nor iso ... unless they are able to recognize and take advantage of a clogging or over commited D.

We (at least I) dont want "always stagnant players", then again, if only extremes are doable, then I honestly dont really know what ailment would be in our best interest ... stagnant spacing I guess ?

... but I know is all ultimately dependant on the devs.

P.S:
Also, how about adding an option within the gameplay settings were you get to choose what off ball movement would you like to see between:
- current (2K13 all automatic)
- as propposed in my post (with some context)
- no movement at all (as it used to be way back in the day)
I am all into having options and the power to decide how the game should play as each and everyone of us have a different view.

[la1221]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

They should've added a skill called something like "Moving without the ball". Not everyone moves actively unless a play is called. The Hamiltons and Ray Allens of the NBA should be doing some moving to lose their defender not just move randomly like what we have now. I think that would balance the spacing out a bit.

[Serra11]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Since this thread has come back to life...
Has anyone tried to 0ed Spot Up tendency for EVERY player????
Of course with corrected spot up Hotspots...

[hikwelity]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Yes, PnR quick play settings are definitely needed, many things are to make this a deep simulation.

Types of sets:

First two are the same (basically) 4 spot picker on first play, while second play has the 5 setting the screen.

If there is only one thing that changes in 2K14, I hope it is pick and roll spacing, both in sets and in random pick and rolls.

Specifically, I want to see the defense forced into single side bump situations, having to choose how they want to defend the initial screen and whether they want to give up a layup or a 3.

In these two examples, if you simply switch the direction of the screen, bringing the PG to the strong side of the floor, rather than the single side, you basically have 90% of New York's entire offense. When the PG comes off the screen, the shooter on the single side should slide up to the wing, forcing their defender into a decision: Do I bump the roll man to prevent the layup, or do I stick to my man so he doesn't get an open 3.

This brings in another layer of defensive strategy, which would make the game more fun on that side of the ball as well. You could blitz the ballhandler, making it a very difficult pass over high hands to either the roll man or shooter, or you could try to bump the roll man immediately, near the FT line, opening up a backdoor lane for the shooter. Or you could back off and offer no help on the initial screen, negating the need for a bump of the roll man, but allowing the PG either an open jumper or a 2 on 1 situation on the drive.

Literally one play with proper spacing can be a game in itself, and it is such a huge part of not only every NBA team's playbook, but the way they play random pick and rolls in early offense and in late clock situations, that I don't understand why it is represented so poorly in 2K13.

[raiderphantom]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

Why would you want a random virtual character with an IQ of 12 to decide when he should come and do initiate a p'n'r with the ball handler?

It should always come from your input or it will always mess up the spacing.

Sorry, Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I meant if you called a play that had an off ball screen turning into a pick n roll. ex. PF sets an offball screen for the SG in the corner, SG pops out to the wing and receives a ball screen from the center(at that point, everyone should be cleared out). I didn't mean for it to automatically happen.

Players should always be spaced out for the drive unless you tell them otherwise. Tne only time a player should move on his own in a halfcourt set is a backdoor cut on the baseline if his defender is cheating or sleeping. That shouldn't be something you should have to tell him to do because the window is too small and it's a reactionary play.

[Skopin]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

There are so many issues that need to be fixed to actually correct the spacing and broken plays. I play mostly My Player/My Career, which makes the issues stand out even more.

Spacing goes hand in hand with the AI, and 2k's AI is awful. If I call for an isolation, my team clears out for about 2 seconds, then immediately run to the paint. This leads their own defenders to the paint, which would eliminate any chance of me either getting to the basket or doing a drive and kick. Not that a drive and kick would do anything since the AI tends not to want to shoot wide open jump shots when I pass it to them.

If I try to run a play where I need to move off the ball, I can pretty much forget that play running to completion. With all of the contact animations that happen, coupled with the AI's psychic power of knowing where I am going before I do, it takes 15 seconds just to go from point A to point B. Why do I get locked into 3-4 contact animations just trying to run from one corner to the other, behind the baseline?

Another thing I notice is that if an AI player grabs an offensive rebound, they will always go back up with it. Always. They could have all 5 defenders on top of them, and 4 3-point shooters around the perimeter, wide open, and never pass it out. It's extremely frustrating.

I could go on and on about the AI and spacing issues. Hopefully they really work these out on next-gen. And please give players the option to call plays from non-PG positions from day one.

[raiderphantom]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

If there is only one thing that changes in 2K14, I hope it is pick and roll spacing, both in sets and in random pick and rolls.

Specifically, I want to see the defense forced into single side bump situations, having to choose how they want to defend the initial screen and whether they want to give up a layup or a 3.

In these two examples, if you simply switch the direction of the screen, bringing the PG to the strong side of the floor, rather than the single side, you basically have 90% of New York's entire offense. When the PG comes off the screen, the shooter on the single side should slide up to the wing, forcing their defender into a decision: Do I bump the roll man to prevent the layup, or do I stick to my man so he doesn't get an open 3.

This brings in another layer of defensive strategy, which would make the game more fun on that side of the ball as well. You could blitz the ballhandler, making it a very difficult pass over high hands to either the roll man or shooter, or you could try to bump the roll man immediately, near the FT line, opening up a backdoor lane for the shooter. Or you could back off and offer no help on the initial screen, negating the need for a bump of the roll man, but allowing the PG either an open jumper or a 2 on 1 situation on the drive.

Literally one play with proper spacing can be a game in itself, and it is such a huge part of not only every NBA team's playbook, but the way they play random pick and rolls in early offense and in late clock situations, that I don't understand why it is represented so poorly in 2K13.

Yes. So many NBA offenses live off the pick and roll. It's a staple in the NBA. Some teams don't even run plays, they just perfect the hardest play to defend. Without proper spacing the pick and roll turns into a lot of dead possessions.

Also, It seems as if running WIDER around the pick is more effective than running tighter where really the opposite is true. Blitzing the ball handler is a problem because you could throw it over a 20 foot center, hopefully it's a more effective strategy in 2K14. There probably should be a screen rating in basketball games too. It has more to do with technique than a "brick wall" pick.

But back to the spacing, it's also relevant to where you are on the floor when you call for the play. If you are at the top of the floor with three different three point shooters, you should see 2 shooters in the corners and one on the wing/slot. The screener should always set the screen on a side that has enough space. If I am at the top of the 3 point line, a bit off to the left, and I have a shooter on the left wing, that screen should always come on my right side to avoid running into the shooter. The entire pick and roll game needs to be a major focus for 2K and spacing is a key component of that.

[Vni]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

We've been heard!



Perfect.

[Da_Czar]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

We've been heard!



Perfect.

I told you keep eye on this thread

[Vni]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

I would like a quick D pad option aswell to stop all theses movements non sense. Seriously that's not what NBA basketball looks like. NBA players aren't constantly moving, cutting 'randomly'. Outside of plays they stretch the floor. Sure some players have higher cutting tendencies than others but they also use their experience and knowledge of the game to cut at the right time.

If I'am not running a play, calling a quick play or doing manual off ball cuts I don't expect my players to come and set screens or randomly cross the court. The passing is bad enough on it's own.

Spoiler

<-- Me

Spoiler

<-- Czar

Spoiler

<-- Mike Wang and Czar

Spoiler

<-- Mike Wang

Spoiler

<-- Me

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

We've been heard!



Perfect.

So this is gotta be the L1/LB before halfcourt... Czar any insight?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

That's dope!

[stillfeelme]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

I knew this thread would be a large focus for 2K14. Czar, Beluba and the posters who posted in this thread good work OS.

[Optik]

Re: 2K13's spacing : It's an issue.

We've been heard!



Perfect.