Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

[Ramboooo]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

I'm open to ideas on how to balance skill with stats and non-cumbersome gameplay that still has players shooting at their realistic percentages in the correct locations, and where okay players and the best stick guys still shoot realistic and similar numbers overall.

Yeah, it's not easy. Perhaps even impossible with diametrically opposed goals.

The best compromise would be a more dynamic mechanic that keeps you a bit more involved but still produces realistic stats most of the time-- in which case it's nearly indistinguishable from button press timing shots when it's done right.

This is the problem with this version of "sim" line of thinking. It's NOT about realistic STATS when you're PLAYING the game. It's about realistic action / reaction, reward / punish system. Why is that? Because realistic stats in the real NBA are the RESULT of that system. It's like you just want everyone to magically shoot this predetermined 45.3% or something, no matter what transpires on the court. Or maybe I just read that wrong.

[Sundown]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

This is the problem with this version of "sim" line of thinking. It's NOT about realistic STATS when you're PLAYING the game. It's about realistic action / reaction, reward / punish system. Why is that? Because realistic stats in the real NBA are the RESULT of that system. It's like you just want everyone to magically shoot this predetermined 45.3% or something, no matter what transpires on the court. Or maybe I just read that wrong.

Yeah, you read that wrong. I want realistic rewards for realistic actions. And realistic punishments for poor play.

Magically shooting 45% no matter what happens isn't sim. Playing a solid NBA game and getting solid NBA stats is. Playing out of your mind and shooting better than the average is as well, but that shouldn't be every game. Playing like crap and shooting poorly is perfectly realistic as well.

So I think we actually completely agree.

[thedream2k13]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

This is the type of thread that will lead to 2k15 being dumbed down like 213. Shooting is almost perfect we don't need everyone being marksman like in 2k13
2k needs to get rid of shot meter also because everyone thinks a good release means the ball should go in regardless of ratings

[stillfeelme]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

I don't see how this is a topic. Guys get cold and hot in the game an in real life. If you are missing every single open three then prove it. If your guy is cold you need to go to the lane and get an easier basket or sub out cold player. Kerr and Kellog will even tell you who is cold or consecutive misses, they also will tell you that you are being a ball hog too if you keep shooting lol. I have played online and offline where Monta is killing but Dirk is off.

Concerning %'s and mechanic I think 2K has it about as well as it can get but maybe they need specific contested rating vs. unconstested ratings. First you must get the timing down then the rest is based off ratings and some other factor on/off consistency.

[Skopin]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

I don't see how this is a topic. Guys get cold and hot in the game an in real life. If you are missing every single open three then prove it. If your guy is cold you need to go to the lane and get an easier basket or sub out cold player. Kerr and Kellog will even tell you who is cold or consecutive misses, they also will tell you that you are being a ball hog too if you keep shooting lol. I have played online and offline where Monta is killing but Dirk is off.

But what determines if/when a player is going to be hot or cold in the video game world? In real life it happens when the player is doing something wrong or different with their shot.

[ForeverVersatile]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

This is the type of thread that will lead to 2k15 being dumbed down like 213. Shooting is almost perfect we don't need everyone being marksman like in 2k13
2k needs to get rid of shot meter also because everyone thinks a good release means the ball should go in regardless of ratings

Dude how is shooting perfect when players still hit the garbage they did last year. See you dont see this playing in OA or SIM leagues.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

But what determines if/when a player is going to be hot or cold in the video game world? In real life it happens when the player is doing something wrong or different with their shot.

Do you think a video game can control every single factor why someone is off or on. If you think so I think you need to put down the sticks and play some real basketball man. There is fatigue, user error/non perfect release/ defense/consistency/statistical/ moving or set that effects the videogame. You are off when you miss say 3 in a row. I do know this I saw Ray Allen break a three point record like 8 threes in a game and the next game he couldn't make any in the playoffs 0-7 looked it up. There is an unpredicable element probably tied to consistency that brings most back to reality.

[Skopin]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

Do you think a video game can control every single factor why someone is off or on. If you think so I think you need to put down the sticks and play some real basketball man. There is fatigue, user error/non perfect release/ defense/consistency/statistical/ moving or set that effects the videogame. You are off when you miss say 3 in a row. I do know this I saw Ray Allen break a three point record like 8 threes in a game and the next game he couldn't make any in the playoffs 0-7 looked it up. There is an unpredicable element probably tied to consistency that brings most back to reality.

Right, but my point is that in real life, there is a reason that players miss a shot, something they did on that shot that caused it not to go in. It could have been a bad release. They may have put too much/not enough on the shot, too much or too little spin, etc. If they get hot, it's because they have a feel for their shot in that game. If they go cold, it's because they're doing something wrong. In the video game world, it's random.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

Right, but my point is that in real life, there is a reason that players miss a shot, something they did on that shot that caused it not to go in. It could have been a bad release. They may have put too much/not enough on the shot, too much or too little spin, etc. If they get hot, it's because they have a feel for their shot in that game. If they go cold, it's because they're doing something wrong. In the video game world, it's random.

Lol no. Have you not seen shots just rim out or go in and roll out? You can shoot the ball perfectly, sometimes u just dont get the right roll.

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[Skopin]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

Lol no. Have you not seen shots just rim out or go in and roll out? You can shoot the ball perfectly, sometimes u just dont get the right roll.

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But that means it wasn't a perfect shot. The amount of spin, the speed and angle of the ball hitting the rim/backboard, etc. all ties into whether the shot goes in. If the shot rims out, then that means that there was some sort of momentum or spin on the ball that caused it to happen.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

Shooting is repetition, rhythm, consistent form feet, mental as well as the defense being played on you. The guys who are good shooters are more likely to get hot but they can also go cold. You ever shot in real life and feel that the ball is going in. It happens even if your "release" felt perfect.

[EarvGotti]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

But that means it wasn't a perfect shot. The amount of spin, the speed and angle of the ball hitting the rim/backboard, etc. all ties into whether the shot goes in. If the shot rims out, then that means that there was some sort of momentum or spin on the ball that caused it to happen.

So your saying a shot is not perfect unless it splashes through the net without touching the rim?

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[OkayC]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

Right, but my point is that in real life, there is a reason that players miss a shot, something they did on that shot that caused it not to go in. It could have been a bad release. They may have put too much/not enough on the shot, too much or too little spin, etc. If they get hot, it's because they have a feel for their shot in that game. If they go cold, it's because they're doing something wrong. In the video game world, it's random.

The problem is, you can't implement those factors into a videogame. So for now a dice roll will have to do. Because if that's wasn't the case, then players and teams would just go back to shooting 50+% from the field again like in 2k13, and I don't see anything realistic about that. Do you?

[Skopin]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

So your saying a shot is not perfect unless it splashes through the net without touching the rim?

If you're aiming for that, then yes. The shot doesn't have to be perfect to go in though. But if it does miss, then there is a logical, physics-based reason for it.

The problem is, you can't implement those factors into a videogame. So for now a dice roll will have to do. Because if that's wasn't the case, then players and teams would just go back to shooting 50+% from the field again like in 2k13, and I don't see anything realistic about that. Do you?

This is true; Obviously you can't implement all of these factors. But you can implement more than simple release timing, like the amount of power you put behind the shot, and where you aim the shot. That is why I said that Elite had the right idea. Their idea was to make shooting skill-based, which is more realistic. However, it wasn't implemented as well as it could be, and it may have been too simplistic.

I suppose sports gamers don't want everything to be realistic (ie. the vision cone in Madden 06) when it comes to actual skill-based actions.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Why do I keep missing Open Three's.

Skopin,

I don't see how it can be any more skill based. All 2K can do is increase difficulty of shot stick feedback relates to ratings. Elite was favoring stick skills over realistic skill of the player just narrow the aiming window. 2K is a balance of shot release timing vs. real life player stats much more in line with reality, it also enables them to allow multiple ways to control different types of shots. There is no aiming while using a button so you alienate users who like to use the button.