The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

No just anytime a player penetrates a little, leads pass to their big man and tries to dunk it immediately. That is the hardest thing to stop in myteam. I know you have to pick your poison, so I usually try to take away the 3 pt shot. However I feel like I am in good position to contest the layup or close shot when the big gets it, but they turbo past me.

Should I hold LT in the paint? RS only? Both?

My Def *** is at 0 btw.

I know how to do everything else and there may not be a direct solution to stop this without bringing more help.

If I'm understanding you correctly, they are beating you off the dribble, and when the big steps up to help they lead pass and your big is out of position to recover? And it happens faster than the rotations happen.

For exploits like this, you have to accept that many of the "sim" perspectives place you at a disadvantage. The only way to beat this exploit is off ball defense. I eluded to this in another thread and got blasted for it. So, here it goes again.....

You need to switch off ball and control the help defender so you can make sure he is in the correct help position. This way, it's harder for the ball handler to beat the defender off the dribble and you being the help defender will prevent the lead pass from happening.

As soon as the guy stops exploiting, you can return to your on ball defense play. You see, this is what I was talking about when I said there are things people do that bend the programing and you can't beat "broken gameplay tactics" with traditional sim thinking. What I'm saying won't be popular with many of the "Traditionalists" but I'm not here to be popular, I'm more interested in being informed.

2K has done a tremendous job this year with fixing help defense and how rotations work. I'm very pleased with how it works in general because for the most part, they got it right. Having said that, it's still not intuitive and help defenders don't show and recover, adjust positioning according to the ball and the man effectively all the time, and lead passing still gives players unrealistic telepathy to sync pass timing without tipping off the defenders. So to counteract this "telepathy", you have to let another cpu defender use his "telepathy" to even the playing field.

Unfortunately, the game is designed this way and then you start having to count on tendencies and true player ratings instead of the heightened awareness you can provide manually with the sticks. Hope I didn't lose anyone here as I went on my little rant... lol

Hope this helps at least a little.

oh... and sorry if I offended anyone...

[cardinalbird5]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I can't really stop it off ball is the problem. I've had some success staying on ball and putting my hands up to occasionally deflect the pass. I just don't want to rely on going for a risky steal. I feel like the ball should bounce off my guy automatically if I am in position to stop it, but sometimes it doesn't. So then I try to play behind the big guy and just contest the layup, however they just hold turbo and hit X.

How do you defend face up big men? I am not talking about back to the basket, but when they face up and try to turbo past you? Do you hold LT? Do you use the RS? Both? That is basically my question. A big man like Howard is receiving the ball just outside the paint and they try to turbo by me.

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I can't really stop it off ball is the problem. I've had some success staying on ball and putting my hands up to occasionally deflect the pass. I just don't want to rely on going for a risky steal. I feel like the ball should bounce off my guy automatically if I am in position to stop it, but sometimes it doesn't. So then I try to play behind the big guy and just contest the layup, however they just hold turbo and hit X.

How do you defend face up big men? I am not talking about back to the basket, but when they face up and try to turbo past you? Do you hold LT? Do you use the RS? Both? That is basically my question. A big man like Howard is receiving the ball just outside the paint and they try to turbo by me.

I wasn't talking about going for the steal with the off ball help defender, I was talking about help positioning so you can force the ball handler to either take a pull up or risk driving all the way to the rack where he would meet the Big (help defender). If you maintain your help positioning, maybe you can at least contest the shots at the rim.

On the face up guys, I would imagine it's the same as the on ball defense concepts I originally posted. I will have to ask if you would be using your on ball defense rating or low post defense rating in that instance. Let me ask and get back to you, but my guess would be on ball defense.

[alabamarob]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I can't really stop it off ball is the problem. I've had some success staying on ball and putting my hands up to occasionally deflect the pass. I just don't want to rely on going for a risky steal. I feel like the ball should bounce off my guy automatically if I am in position to stop it, but sometimes it doesn't. So then I try to play behind the big guy and just contest the layup, however they just hold turbo and hit X.

How do you defend face up big men? I am not talking about back to the basket, but when they face up and try to turbo past you? Do you hold LT? Do you use the RS? Both? That is basically my question. A big man like Howard is receiving the ball just outside the paint and they try to turbo by me.

Great post. I hate how the offensive player always gets the correct catching animation, but the defender gets random catch animations that may or may not work. The game should make the right stick deny actually work by deflecting or stealing passes.

As far as the face up turbo cheese. You have to back up off the offensive player slightly and then slightly shade the offensive player to the non pivot foot side. This way he will have to move towards his pivot foot to drive which will give you a bit more time to react. 2k really needs to add a first step player rating like live. Every player in the game has an iverson first step.

[Coach2K]

The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I've been playing nothing but HOF sim and its kind of hard not to blame the settings when you set your SG to play Deny Off Ball on Klay Thompson and he sags off over and over and over again. So like the OP said there are boosts and manipulation going on.

That wouldn't have anything to do with a boost or any kind of manipulation. I think the OP was referring to the user having to manipulate the game to win on hof difficulty which I don't agree has to be done.

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

By far I think the most important concept on defense is staying on a direct line between the ball and the basket and contesting the shot.

This probably should be emphasized more.

As a disclaimer, I should mention that all of the following information was gathered from 2k13, I haven't played 2k14 yet to know if/how these particular aspects of defending may have changed.

I tested every possible shot contest scenario with the help of a friend, and one thing I found was that being 'in a shooter's jersey' with your hand up but on the side of their body was equivalent to being at arm's length with your hand down in front of them. In other words, only one feedback level better than what the game considered wide open.

I suspect that a lot of complaints about the success rate of contested shots are related to defenders being in what the game considers poor position, despite their close proximity to the shooter.

Another thing worth mentioning is that the law of verticality is respected near the basket, but you must have your hands up before a shot is initiated and keep the left stick neutral (not sure about moving backwards in a straight line) to avoid a foul. I'm sure it's a lot more fun to make use of the revamped blocking system, but doing this can help cut down on and-ones for players having issues with them.

[Coach2K]

The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I'd like to know how to play defense in the paint better. Everyone online just leads pass to their big and I try my best to keep my hands and stay behind them, but they just "slip" off me. I hate gambling and going for the steal, because of the delay and timing, so I hope that isn't the only effective way to stop this.

I also know I can play more help defense, but I don't want to leave shooters open.

Any tips for paint defense on the lead pass? Go for steal? Use RS only? Holt LT only?

I'm guessing you are getting beat off the dribble and once you are beat, the big comes to stop penetration leaving the other teams big open for a pass and an easy score.

What team are you using and what is the help defense slider set at in the coaching sliders?

Maybe you could pause and take a picture of your coaching sliders and post it with your response.

Also what is the rest of your defense set up to do?

And can you post a pic of the team stats at the end of the game so we can see how many PIP we are talking about.

I don't agree that getting beat off the dribble, and then offense passing it to the helpers man is an exploit. That's good offense especially if that's what the defense is giving you.

I don't how many times I watched Lebron do that vs the Pacers by passing to Chris Anderson. In fact, I think it might have been the fifth or sixth game of the playoffs before Anderson missed a shot.

If you play too tight on ball and you get beat with the help slider high, that's going to happen. Depending on your on ball defender, you might have to play a little looser.

Most people I've witnessed over extend their defense guarding the ball out way beyond the three point line. Some as far out as out to three quarter court. If you are doing that bring those back to inside the three point line and just on it.

There's also nothing wrong with controlling a help defender when needed to get it them to do what you need to do periodically.

But the more depth that you can provide in your question helps a ton before the right advice can be given. What else you are doing on the court matters too.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I'm guessing you are getting beat off the dribble and once you are beat, the big comes to stop penetration leaving the other teams big open for a pass and an easy score.

What team are you using and what is the help defense slider set at in the coaching sliders?

Maybe you could pause and take a picture of your coaching sliders and post it with your response.

Also what is the rest of your defense set up to do?

And can you post a pic of the team stats at the end of the game so we can see how many PIP we are talking about.

I don't agree that getting beat off the dribble, and then offense passing it to the helpers man is an exploit. That's good offense especially if that's what the defense is giving you.

I don't how many times I watched Lebron do that vs the Pacers by passing to Chris Anderson. In fact, I think it might have been the fifth or sixth game of the playoffs before Anderson missed a shot.

If you play too tight on ball and you get beat with the help slider high, that's going to happen. Depending on your on ball defender, you might have to play a little looser.

Most people I've witnessed over extend their defense guarding the ball out way beyond the three point line. Some as far out as out to three quarter court. If you are doing that bring those back to inside the three point line and just on it.

There's also nothing wrong with controlling a help defender when needed to get it them to do what you need to do periodically.

But the more depth that you can provide in your question helps a ton before the right advice can be given. What else you are doing on the court matters too.

This is mainly online first of all.

Secondly, it isn't so much getting beat off the dribble as it is my opponent's forcing themselves in the paint by either turboing constantly towards the paint, backing up my defender and constantly trying to spin off them, etc. So the guard is still guarding his man, but the problem is the guy is deep into the paint. It is almost like playing the CPU where they force themselves in the paint relentlessly.

Third, this is mainly on MyTeam, so this a bit exaggerated. However, I notice a lot of players do play like this in quick ranked as well. But for instance, my last game my opponent had MJ, Lebron, and AI. All 3 could shoot 3's, which is one reason I was having problems. He had Dwight Howard at center and Tom Sanders at the 4 (who can't do anything offensively). I was doubling on drive for MJ and Lebron. I was denying all 3 the ball since they would be wide open otherwise and I was mainly helping off of Sanders. The guy I was playing was forcing lead passes to Dwight and I was trying to play it conservatively.

Fourth, I change my sliders from game to game. I like to start off with Help Def around 49. If my opponent relies on 3 pointers I put it from 0-20 and if they only score inside with no shooters I put it from 80-100. It changes constantly though.

I agree it isn't cheesing or exploiting anything really. I just find it difficult to stop a big man inside even when I have the inside position. They just seem to dribble in circles and turbo past me. That is why I am wondering is it best to hold LT in the paint or RS only?

I don't have this problem so much in quick ranked because not every team is stacked and I can help off more to cut off gaps for penetration. And I necessarily don't have a huge problem in myteam as I still won close to 75% of my games. It was just a weakness on my end.

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Hey Cardinal7, i gave that face up question some thought and kind of answered my own question. From my understanding, if the person is using the face up and attack move (LS toward the goal + Y [triangle]) then you would be using low post def. If they were just facing up and then just turboing by you, it would be on ball defense. Either way, the way I have effectively stopped this is to hold LT(L2) and as they try to drive by me, I let go of LT(L2) and initiate the body contact while holding the RS directly at the player. This has worked like a dream for me. You can't stop everything so players will still make post shots, especially good post scorers, but you will feel more like and see that you are making an impact on defense. When some shots go in anyway you will feel good when you say to yourself, "He made that garbage?". If you know what I mean.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Good info in here, A lot of stuff I already use, Some stuf I haven't but none the less good info all around.

[yungsta404]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I know this is defense for the paint but what is the best way to contest jumpshots? I dunno if its a flaw but it seems like even when I am in the shooters face I feel like it doesnt consistently register as a shot contest.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

GO into your settings, and Set shot contest to intense Defense, Pull the left trigger when ever you close distance on a shooter to get a hand up.

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I know this is defense for the paint but what is the best way to contest jumpshots? I dunno if its a flaw but it seems like even when I am in the shooters face I feel like it doesnt consistently register as a shot contest.

Did you read the first post with all the tips and tutorial information? You kind of missed #10.

[yungsta404]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

GO into your settings, and Set shot contest to intense Defense, Pull the left trigger when ever you close distance on a shooter to get a hand up.

Did you read the first post with all the tips and tutorial information? You kind of missed #10.

Oh crap I did miss number 10# thanks for the advice guys.

[C_Bailey24]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

That wouldn't have anything to do with a boost or any kind of manipulation. I think the OP was referring to the user having to manipulate the game to win on hof difficulty which I don't agree has to be done.

No the OP mentioned the boosts that the CPU gets on higher levels to make it difficult. He wasn't referring to human. If i set my guy to Deny Off Ball and he continuously and purposely plays way off the man who just so happens to keep hitting jumpshot after jumpshot that IS manipulation by the A.I. and not my settings. I can't control all 5 guys at one time.