The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

[quehouston]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

No the OP mentioned the boosts that the CPU gets on higher levels to make it difficult. He wasn't referring to human. If i set my guy to Deny Off Ball and he continuously and purposely plays way off the man who just so happens to keep hitting jumpshot after jumpshot that IS manipulation by the A.I. and not my settings. I can't control all 5 guys at one time.

Have you tried turning your off ball pressure up in conjunction with Deny ball? 100 Off ball pressure + Deny ball is alot tighter than 50 off ball pressure + Deny ball. Shout out to my man JW55 for that find.

[Coach2K]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

No the OP mentioned the boosts that the CPU gets on higher levels to make it difficult. He wasn't referring to human. If i set my guy to Deny Off Ball and he continuously and purposely plays way off the man who just so happens to keep hitting jumpshot after jumpshot that IS manipulation by the A.I. and not my settings. I can't control all 5 guys at one time.

It might depend on your other defensive settings.

[C_Bailey24]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Have you tried turning your off ball pressure up in conjunction with Deny ball? 100 Off ball pressure + Deny ball is alot tighter than 50 off ball pressure + Deny ball. Shout out to my man JW55 for that find.

Yeah i've tried that but its not consistent. I was playing as the Bucks vs Warrior. Not a good defensive team by no stretch. So when Curry and Klay were both in the game i would guard Curry mostly and set Klay to Deny Off Ball because this is when he was hurting me the most. When Curry was out i'd guard him myself and take my chances with Iguodola and Tony Douglas guarded by CPU. For whatever reason O.J. Mayo would sag off Klay for no reason.

My Off Ball i tried at 85 on up to 100. Help D was at 60. I don't set that too high because i read somewhere that if its High and u also have a couple guys to Deny Off Ball then the rotations get a little screwy/ A.I. gets a little confused.

[PJBrownHeat]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I´m totally lost about difficulty level. AS, SPS and HOF are unrealistic and we have told it to 2k since a long time. But tell them where is the reality when you win a game in pro by 40 pts? So ok cpu is realistic in peo level because it can miss some open shot.
Recently i played to 2k11 and it is impressiv in SPS level it is impossible to make a pass to the post and impossible to contest some shot.
I finally thought excatly what you said, pro is excatly the reality for the CPU. It is funny because i learn today that 2k tune the game in pro in your thread.

After all the nba classic game i watched of the bulls, and so much teams who are not strong vs them, and when you play with bulls, CPU is the bulls and you, you play like the adversary. It is frustrating to see Oakley making so much fadeaway jumpshot, or Malone, or Schrempf or Askew or Gill, or Larry johnson. Sometimes Gill dunked like Jordan, it was frustrating!!!

So my first question is why 2k didn't tell us this before because it could avoid me to break a sony LCD 32, or 2 joypads ... (And a ps3)
Secondly why did they tune in pro and not in all star or superstar??
It could be interesting for us to buy a simulation game lol It is arcade because you told us that SPS and HOF it was not for realistic but just for challenge!!! That is what i thought for many years, this game is arcade, but only pro is realistic. And i comfirm it is the truth because cpu can miss a lot lf jumpshot.

Third question. You know something which don't help to win with theclassicbulls are thetriangle offense!! Why rodman or grant has a high post in their paybook but no play forhigh post or pippen with cut in playbook butno play for him.
12 swingpost was for PF and C too but if you don't know it, how do you do to guess it??
I played a game in 2k12 in SPS challenge for pippen, with every time def settings each time for every substitution, mc millan perkins ... 4 or 5 times impossible to beat them. The 6 th twice in the second quarter 55 39 for me because i played really good with triangle offense i had the feeling that superfonics were in level pro or rookie!!! It was excellent. It happened to me several time in HOF or SPS but not so many times.

And last question. you told us in 4. That. " the tighter your defenders play, the more they rely on ball defense ratings to prevent the drive."
And just after in the 5. " if you select play tight ...... , they will prevent the jumpshot but be more vulnerable against the drive!!!" ? You are contradicting what you said??

And for finishing, about slider, i think default slider are good if you play well and the solution i have thought since so many years is to diminish some attributs and tendencies of some players to have more realistic basketball because you told us that in higher level cpu has a boost.
but where i m completely lost it is when you play with the dream team in HOF against washington bullets or pistons detroit (very low team in 2k13) and cpu taking some impossible off reb or some jumpshot or big big Alley oop vs Robinson, Ewing, Malone it is unrealistic!! Whatever the level, you should not watch this kind of exploit.

That is all.

[quehouston]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Yeah i've tried that but its not consistent. I was playing as the Bucks vs Warrior. Not a good defensive team by no stretch. So when Curry and Klay were both in the game i would guard Curry mostly and set Klay to Deny Off Ball because this is when he was hurting me the most. When Curry was out i'd guard him myself and take my chances with Iguodola and Tony Douglas guarded by CPU. For whatever reason O.J. Mayo would sag off Klay for no reason.

My Off Ball i tried at 85 on up to 100. Help D was at 60. I don't set that too high because i read somewhere that if its High and u also have a couple guys to Deny Off Ball then the rotations get a little screwy/ A.I. gets a little confused.

I also play with the Bucks online, I've never had that problem though. My biggest issue comes in my defensive transition, where my men lose their matchups sometimes, but I credit that to Milwaukee just being a bad perimeter defensive team, so their D awareness is lackluster. Rotation wise they've been fine in the half court set. I never set my help D anywhere above 40 because anything higher, they start going crazy and running to help for no reason, leaving shooters open. I've had the most success running like 30-35 help D and just trusting my on ball D skills to keep the man out of the paint. And even if I do get beat, Larry Sanders and John Henson are both monster shot blockers. I'm on a 9 game winning streak with them right now.

[C_Bailey24]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I also play with the Bucks online, I've never had that problem though. My biggest issue comes in my defensive transition, where my men lose their matchups sometimes, but I credit that to Milwaukee just being a bad perimeter defensive team, so their D awareness is lackluster. Rotation wise they've been fine in the half court set. I never set my help D anywhere above 40 because anything higher, they start going crazy and running to help for no reason, leaving shooters open. I've had the most success running like 30-35 help D and just trusting my on ball D skills to keep the man out of the paint. And even if I do get beat, Larry Sanders and John Henson are both monster shot blockers. I'm on a 9 game winning streak with them right now.

Too bad i dont really play online. Its good to hear that this nonsense isn't happening in hum vs hum but playing the CPU its like they ignore my defensive settings to make it "difficult". This isn't about winning or losing i just want the settings to work correctly. I was willing to let Iguodola, Douglas and Barnes have some open shots and if they drove rotate with one of my big men and contest the layup/shot in the paint. Letting Klay and Curry shoot open threes was what i was trying to contain...but it seems the A.I. has other plans.

[PJBrownHeat]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

A last thing about nba 2k11.
When you don't play to your ps3 during 3weeks, cell of your ps3 get colder or make a total reset if you prefer, and you do again a game with classic bulls during the first few minutes CPU is realand very nice even in HOF or SPS and your plays are excecuting correctly, your teammates are even able to make a beautiful triangle offense like on this video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iyAU2luLqO0

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnb2HlOmdKk

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d1QnFG_EvYY

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IuC8r-QW0-M

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dii7nyqWchU

When you begin the second quarter, plays begin to be broken, and it don't help to get a realistic game and cpu begin to be more and more unrealistic.

Do you remember the third quarter in 2k9 which one everybody complained? but also in every 2k game.

So the issue comes from a lot of things not just the fact that 2k tunes the game in pro level but also by the fact that playbook don't help and plays are sometimes broken, and maybe the cpu is too much intelligent!!

Nevertheirless my advice to win in SPS or HOF, use def settings as you can, study in reality the plays of your teams, and save your game like a RPG in the middle of the 3rd quarter and in the middle of the 4th.

For in paint shot, let the PG goes in the paint if he made a good dribble let the cpu live his life and you will see him going alone in the paint and be blocked by your center but don't try to defend like a crazy man.
Besides about this story of L2 or R2 in D, when i push too much longer L 2 it seems like if cpu transform in superhuman

And rs sometimes contest but the most of time nothing.

Good night

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

On ball defense ratings and strength:

This needs to be brought up but on current gen an on ball defender is not created equally. I know Sreckless has brought it up and I noticed the same thing. The strength rating of a player will reduce the effectiveness of your player to play on ball defense which isn't necessarily true but exists in this game.


A good on ball defender like Avery Bradley can be negated by stronger guards because animations will force him to be pushed out of the way or he will have a harder time forcing a pick up dribble animation. This is based off his strength rating. I think 2K needs to re-evaluate how strength plays on for on ball defense if it is the same for next gen

A lot of it is in the ratings. The str ratings are all over the place. Aldridge has a 60 and Meyers Leonard has an 80. It should be the other way around. Leonard is a big strong kid but still a kid who doesnt know how to use his tools. Aldridge might have deserved a 60 in his rookie year. He's put on a lot of muscle since then.

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Okay.... so let's break this thing apart a bit. At first I was like... Where do I even start with this one? There are so many misunderstanding in what you seem to be interpreting from what I said... But here it goes!

I´m totally lost about difficulty level. As sps and hof are unrealistic and we have told it to 2k since a long time. But tell them where is the reality when you win a game in pro by 40 pts? So ok pro cpu is realistic, recently i played to 2k11 and it is impressiv in SPS level it is impossible to make a pass to the post and impossible to contest some shot.
I finally thought excatly what you said, pro is excatly the reality for the CPU. Itis funny because i learn today that 2k tune the game in pro in your thread.

After all the nba classic game i watched of the bulls, and so much teams who are not strong vs them, and when you play with bulls, CPU is the bulls and you, you play like the adversary. It is frustrating to see Oakley making so much fadeaway jumpshot, or Malone, or Schrempf or Askew or Gill, or Larry johnson. Sometimes Gill dunked like Jordan, it was frustrating!!!

Those players make a lot of unbelievable shots for a few reasons.

#1. Defense. Do you know how to properly contest a shot? Do you know what the game considers good defense against a shot or the post?

#2. On HOF and Superstar, players have up to 15+ point boosts on a bunch of ratings.
#3. Sometimes people make tough shots.

So my first question is why 2k didn't tell us this before because it could avoid me to break a sony LCD 32, or 2 joypads ... (And a ps3)

Well, to be fair to 2K, when you fire up the game it is set to Pro. You are the one who changed it. I suggest an anger management class. (joke)

Secondly while did they tune in pro and not for all star or superstar??
It could be interesting for us to buy a simulation game lol It is arcade because you told us that SPS and HOF it was not for realistic but just for challenge!!! That is what i thought for many years, this game is arcade, but only pro is realistic. And i comfirm it is the truth because cpu can miss a lot lf jumpshot.

2K tunes the game to Pro as the level where all players perform according to the ratings you see. Obviously as they do things in the game, they get boosts here or there according to how they are playing in that game. (this is the cause for the phantom momentum swings people cry about so much) If you aren't monitoring the players who are killing you, it gets out of hand real quick and your players start performing poorly.

Here is what happens when the game is bumped from Pro to HOF (for the CPU team ONLY!)

Ratings on Pro



Ratings on HOF



That's how you get your challenge.... They become superhuman versions of themselves.

Third question. You know something which don't help to win with theclassicbulls are thetriangle offense!! Why rodman or grant has a high post in their paybook but no play forhigh post or pippen with cut in playbook butno play for him.
12 swingpost was for PF and C but if you don't know it you can't guess it!!
I played a game in 2k12 in SPS challenge for pippen, with every time def settings each time for every substitution, mc millan perkins ... 4 or 5 times impossible to beat them. The 6 th twice in the second quarter 55 39 for me because i played really good with triangle offense i had thefeeling that superfonics were in level pro or rookie!!!

I guess I'm a little confused on this one. You do know you can go in and change the playbooks for every team and assign whatever play style you want for every player in the game right? So, my suggestion for you would be... go in and change it to what you think it should be.

And last question you told us that in 4. That the tighter your defenders play, the more they rely on ball defense ratings to prevent the drive.
And just after in the 5. You say the contrary, they will prevent the jumpshot but be more vulnerable against the drive!!!

Yes I said that but you appear to have interpreted it incorrectly. The tighter your player is on the ball handler the better he is at contesting a jump shot. When you play tight like that, you better be proficient with the sticks and be controlling a player with a high on ball defense rating.

The more cushion he gives the ball handler the better he can react to the drive and correct his positioning to play on ball defense and prevent the drive. However, the more cushion you give (with the coaching slider for the team, and the defensive setting for the players [tight, moderate,sag, etc]) the less effective you will be against good shooters.

And for finishing, about slider, i think default slider are good if you play well and the solution i have thought since so many years is to diminish some attributs and tendencies of some players to have more realistic basketball because you told us that in higher level cpu has a boost.
but where i m lost it is when you play with the dream team in HOF against washington bullets or pistons detroit very low team in 2k13 and cpu taking some impossible off reb or some jumpshot or big big Alley oop vs Robinson ewing malone it is unrealistic!! Whatever the level you should not watch this.

Again, you need to look up to the difference in player ratings between Pro and HOF and you will get your answer to the unrealistic feats of some players.

[Goffs]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Goodness....why can't HOF play more smarter than giving the whole team with a ratings boost....

[Cherifanaiz]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Thank you very much for your post! I always tried to defend using the position of the shadow, but once overcome ... I noticed that the score in the paint was too easy for the other team!
Thanks to your post I will incorporatethat posture with LT + RT and RS backward!
Really I found it very interesting!

[Agame]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Great read. Playing pro and not alone.
Sovartus - POST your Sliders please.

[neckwrestler]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Sovartus - POST your Sliders please.

I think this was addressed in the first post.

Having said that, the most realistic difficulty setting is Pro. The most challenging is obviously HOF. I can beat the game on HOF regularly and convincingly but actually play the game on Pro and have the most realistic simulations when I play the game that way. I don't do anything unrealistic while playing and play the game on 12 mins and control all aspects of my team from coaching adjustments, to substitutions. I also play on default simulation sliders with no slider adjustments whatsoever.

[Coach2K]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Too bad i dont really play online. Its good to hear that this nonsense isn't happening in hum vs hum but playing the CPU its like they ignore my defensive settings to make it "difficult". This isn't about winning or losing i just want the settings to work correctly. I was willing to let Iguodola, Douglas and Barnes have some open shots and if they drove rotate with one of my big men and contest the layup/shot in the paint. Letting Klay and Curry shoot open threes was what i was trying to contain...but it seems the A.I. has other plans.

I really don't think the CPU is ignoring your settings but what could be happening is your settings might be competing with each other or not in sync.

The guy above who recommended you check your defensive pressure was on the right track.

One thing I suggest is to pick one team (maybe you have) and not to mess with any settings. No coaching sliders or defensive settings changes and no locking down paint, pressure shooters.

ALSO, sometimes what happens is that people set a player to deny ball, but then during the game, decide to lock down the paint which changes those customized settings you might have made while the user thinks they are still in deny position when they are not.

Guard the ball from the three point line in and play vs one team to get to know that opponents personnel inside and out and don't send double teams.

You'll notice that the computer will pretty much score with the same guys each game because it follows the tendencies pretty close.

The other thing you'll notice is that you'll start to get familiar with the play calling and can start to anticipate where and how a guy is getting his scores.

Is it in transition? Is it an early play off one of your scores or is it off a set play?

I've noticed that my AI guys do sag, so often, I'll switch over to them in situations where I know the CPU will find them. This is often in early situations when you are not expecting it and not necessarily off a set play.

I do this kind of practice all of the time vs one team when I play the CPU.

I know it's easy to believe you are being cheated, and I doubt there's much I can do to change your mind in that regard other than to say start on a difficulty level you are comfortable with and see where the breakdowns happen on a consistent basis game after game.

Then see if you can correct them manually first before changing settings.

[Coach2K]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I've had similar discussions on the boosts in the past. And before I comment on it in this thread, I want to preface it by saying that any level you decide to play on is fine.

Regardless of how many times I say that, I'm always amazed that it's often thought that I think HOF is the only level to play on and it's not and I don't think that way.

The prevailing opinion is that yeah someone can win on hall of fame mode but it's some how cheapened by what they feel like they have to do to win.

After seeing this opinion for quite sometime, I just wondered is it true because so many people say it is, or is it really actually true?

In 2k13, I've gone on 17-2 runs, come back from double digits and in general had some great games on that level not really doing anything that nearly all of you are capable of. Now in 2K14, I haven't started working on it yet.

There's no doubt the CPU boosts are there from the pic above but I'm telling you those boosts are irrelevant to getting great games.

That doesn't mean it isn't difficult, but it does take resolve to really know your team and really be a hall of fame user with it.

And one area that I've been helped the most in playing that level is just figuring out how to defend all of those supposed supermen lol straight up with no changes in sliders or settings.

Anyway, I comment it because I don't think we should discourage people from playing up the difficulty levels as they get better. We need more hall of fame users not less.

My suggestion to most people would be to play on the level one difficulty level up from where they are easily winning games. That way we can get more pro level players, more all star level players, superstar level players and so on.