The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I always pose the question, what you might be doing as a user that makes your stats and experience so unrealistic before I start changing the sliders or settings. In other words, what tactics are you using that are getting you the unrealistic results?

Here is what I mean: There was a game where I blew the CPU out by over 40 points on Pro. I was the Grizzlies and the CPU was the Raptors. Why did I murder the CPU like that, was the question I asked. After looking at my stats, I noticed I really used the PIck & Roll too much and had almost 70% PIP. Because I shot in the paint so much, my team shot over 60 % from the field. Scoring so efficiently unbalanced the game because all of my players started receiving performance boosts like crazy and the CPU didn't stand a chance after that.

I hit the rematch button and made a deliberate effort to use the P&R more realistically and there was a significant difference in the game results. We still won by 12 but both teams shot in the mid 40's percentage wise and my PIP dropped to 47%. In my opinion, sometimes it's not the game being too easy as much as it is the user is doing something consistently that is unrealistic and gaining an advantage because of it.


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[Coach2K]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Agreed and that decision can be made to play a certain way at any difficulty to get the results you want.

[sirjam]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Best tip is let of l trigger and initiate contact. Go into blacktop vs cpu and try it out.
I do think holding both triggers while sliding will overshoot the offensive player.
I use that as to catch up then let go. Also remember your not gonna stop Kobe and other stars all the time. they will get theirs, key is to make it tough for them.

[PJBrownHeat]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Okay.... so let's break this thing apart a bit. At first I was like... Where do I even start with this one? There are so many misunderstanding in what you seem to be interpreting from what I said... But here it goes!

thanks you.


Those players make a lot of unbelievable shots for a few reasons.

#1. Defense. Do you know how to properly contest a shot? Do you know what the game considers good defense against a shot or the post?
i almost experimented RS to contest shot in NBA 2k13. sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't do anynothing. I tried it vs Dennis scott with Pippen or Anderson with Jordan and trust me, in HOF it is impossible.
But, excuse me, do you know i played to 2k game in SPS and HOF since 2k9?

#2. On HOF and Superstar, players have up to 15+ point boosts on a bunch of ratings.
that is what i said to everybody since several years, we have to diminish hughly attributs and tendencies of every players in the game if we want to play to a realistic game in superstar or HOF? do you think it is normal?
About changing sliders it is a big big joke!! I have always smiled when i watched people asking for realistic sliders.
#3. Sometimes people make tough shots.
no problem with that. i'm aware of it.

Well, to be fair to 2K, when you fire up the game it is set to Pro. You are the one who changed it. I suggest an anger management class. (joke)
When i beat sonics 55 vs 39 with the bulls 96 in the second quarter in SPS, i made the maximum to keep quiet and it worked but it was a fight against me. The more you stay cool the better you play. but problem is to play well! Offense is the defense in the game. Everyone will tell you they tried to do their best to make the biggest possible Defense with defense settings. If we haven't got good playbooks we can't play well and have a good D because teammate are too quickly tired and after, unable to make a good D.


2K tunes the game to Pro as the level where all players perform according to the ratings you see. Obviously as they do things in the game, they get boosts here or there according to how they are playing in that game. (this is the cause for the phantom momentum swings people cry about so much) If you aren't monitoring the players who are killing you, it gets out of hand real quick and your players start performing poorly.

Here is what happens when the game is bumped from Pro to HOF (for the CPU team ONLY!)

Ratings on Pro



Ratings on HOF



That's how you get your challenge.... They become superhuman versions of themselves.
how did you get these pictures?
so if i understood well, to get a real Liliard in SPS or HOF for example, i have to diminish him 81 - 12 = 69 (sorry) are you ok with it? so why 2k didn't do that by default?


I guess I'm a little confused on this one. You do know you can go in and change the playbooks for every team and assign whatever play style you want for every player in the game right? So, my suggestion for you would be... go in and change it to what you think it should be.
yes i know it but it frusts me when i don't see any play for high post for grant and rodman while 2k gave them a high post priority in 2k12 classic bulls playbook. do you remember in 2k11, rodman with 1997 bulls has the 54 over. it is for 3 pt shot!! for rodman?? no, sorry, it make to much things to change when i buy the game!!

Yes I said that but you appear to have interpreted it incorrectly. The tighter your player is on the ball handler the better he is at contesting a jump shot.
ok
When you play tight like that, you better be proficient with the sticks and be controlling a player with a high on ball defense rating.
ok
The more cushion he gives the ball handler the better he can react to the drive and correct his positioning to play on ball defense and prevent the drive. However, the more cushion you give (with the coaching slider for the team, and the defensive setting for the players [tight, moderate,sag, etc]) the less effective you will be against good shooters.
i'm sorry but i still didn't understand!


[/quote]Again, you need to look up to the difference in player ratings between Pro and HOF and you will get your answer to the unrealistic feats of some players.[/quote]
so as so many people have tried to play in HOF or SPS during all those last years, everybody played to an unrealistic basket ball game!! it is my conclusion!

i'm sure you are in the team of 2k, i don't know why.

[thedream2k13]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Pressing Y BUTTON to jump is contesting a shot. Look at a real bball game. Auto shot contest isnt "your friend" in 2k14. Its very ineffective unlike 2k13. I am glad they gimped it.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Pressing Y BUTTON to jump is contesting a shot. Look at a real bball game. Auto shot contest isnt "your friend" in 2k14. Its very ineffective unlike 2k13. I am glad they gimped it.

I disagree with everything in this post.

Even if you think auto contest is "gimped", why would you like that? It shouldn't be that hard to put a hand up on manual, but it is not very reactive. Jumping at shooters is going to get you burnt unless you do it at the end of the shot clock or if you try to run them off the 3 point line.

[jersez]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I actually just did a On ball defense video, great tips man, if you don't mind me posting the video here, so people can see what staying between your man and the basket looks like.

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

I actually just did a On ball defense video, great tips man, if you don't mind me posting the video here, so people can see what staying between your man and the basket looks like.

That would be great.


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[neckwrestler]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Based on this thread I started a new season using Pro simulation sliders, untouched and am actually pleased with it so far. The first game I played was against the Jazz (I am the Thunder), and I beat them by 25+ points, but I don't think that's unrealistic, to be honest. All of the stats at the end of the game were fair for the most part, outside of PIP (I'll get to that in a second).

The second game I played was against the Timberwolves. This was a lot closer than I anticipated, especially after their abysmal first half FG% (something like 30%). The second half they came back hard and played much better overall, contesting my shots and forcing turnovers and were able to get within 6 at the final buzzer. At one point they even led by 5 early in the 4th.

Now regarding PIP against the JAZZ. Near the end of the 3rd quarter, 50 of their 73 points were from PIP. This is after setting my own on/off-ball, hedge and screen settings (maybe this was the problem?). No matter how hard I tried, I could not stop the drive, even after choosing to double players on the drive once I realized what was going on. Maybe I am choosing the wrong settings for ball/screen/hedge? I really have no idea. I am trying to play on-ball defense a lot more and I feel like I am usually in good position when defending and properly contest shots. I still don't totally understand the mechanics of shading.

Has anyone compiled a database of sorts that tells what approach you should be taking against certain players?

[Sovartus]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Now regarding PIP against the JAZZ. Near the end of the 3rd quarter, 50 of their 73 points were from PIP. This is after setting my own on/off-ball, hedge and screen settings (maybe this was the problem?). No matter how hard I tried, I could not stop the drive, even after choosing to double players on the drive once I realized what was going on. Maybe I am choosing the wrong settings for ball/screen/hedge? I really have no idea. I am trying to play on-ball defense a lot more and I feel like I am usually in good position when defending and properly contest shots. I still don't totally understand the mechanics of shading.

Has anyone compiled a database of sorts that tells what approach you should be taking against certain players?

It's good to hear that someone was open minded enough to accept the Pro challenges. I'm curious about who was killing you with the drive, where were their PIP coming from, and who did you have guarding the guy who was carving you up inside?

Shading- While holding the LT/L2, tap the RS to the left or right of the defender. He will turn his body (shade) to take away one of the ball handler's sides. You want to shade the ball handler and take away the way you don't want him to go. In general, you want to shade him away from the middle of the floor, toward the baseline, or directly into good help defender(s) or a shot blocker.

[neckwrestler]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

It's good to hear that someone was open minded enough to accept the Pro challenges. I'm curious about who was killing you with the drive, where were their PIP coming from, and who did you have guarding the guy who was carving you up inside?

I'm not at home right now to look at the box score, but I know that Trey Burke was constantly driving, and being guarded by a combination of Westbrook and Fisher mostly.

Shading- While holding the LT/L2, tap the RS to the left or right of the defender. He will turn his body (shade) to take away one of the ball handler's sides. You want to shade the ball handler and take away the way you don't want him to go. In general, you want to shade him away from the middle of the floor, toward the baseline, or directly into good help defender(s) or a shot blocker.

Just to be sure I'm getting this right...If I am facing the ball handler at the top the of the key and press LT+Left, this will cause my player to turn his right side inward and creating an open lane to the right? Can someone do a screenshot or something to demonstrate? I really wish the in-game tutorials talked more (or at all, really) about this aspect of defensive settings.

[ScoobySnax]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

This makes so much sense, man. I usually play my Association on HOF and I always have some scrub that goes off for 30+ against me. I appreciate the breakdown; gonna give it a go on Pro.

Offensively though, are you getting realistic FG percentages, PPG etc.? I hope it isn't too easy offensively when moving down a couple levels.

Thanks for your insight!

[Sundown]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

This is mainly online first of all.

Secondly, it isn't so much getting beat off the dribble as it is my opponent's forcing themselves in the paint by either turboing constantly towards the paint, backing up my defender and constantly trying to spin off them, etc. So the guard is still guarding his man, but the problem is the guy is deep into the paint. It is almost like playing the CPU where they force themselves in the paint relentlessly.

Third, this is mainly on MyTeam, so this a bit exaggerated. However, I notice a lot of players do play like this in quick ranked as well. But for instance, my last game my opponent had MJ, Lebron, and AI. All 3 could shoot 3's, which is one reason I was having problems. He had Dwight Howard at center and Tom Sanders at the 4 (who can't do anything offensively). I was doubling on drive for MJ and Lebron. I was denying all 3 the ball since they would be wide open otherwise and I was mainly helping off of Sanders. The guy I was playing was forcing lead passes to Dwight and I was trying to play it conservatively.

Fourth, I change my sliders from game to game. I like to start off with Help Def around 49. If my opponent relies on 3 pointers I put it from 0-20 and if they only score inside with no shooters I put it from 80-100. It changes constantly though.

I agree it isn't cheesing or exploiting anything really. I just find it difficult to stop a big man inside even when I have the inside position. They just seem to dribble in circles and turbo past me. That is why I am wondering is it best to hold LT in the paint or RS only?

I don't have this problem so much in quick ranked because not every team is stacked and I can help off more to cut off gaps for penetration. And I necessarily don't have a huge problem in myteam as I still won close to 75% of my games. It was just a weakness on my end.

Everything you detail here is the exact problem I have against my friend and he just bought the game. Already knows how to cheese and rarely takes a good shot. It's either forcing himself to the paint with Jeremy Lin, dribbling in circles in the paint with Dwight, or throwing one up with Harden as soon as he catches it in the perimeter because there's lag in contesting and being close without your hands up or jumping to contest is a free three.

Meanwhile I miss open threes with Curry, just because he went on a 10 point Lin paint Harden 3 cheese run while I'm trying to take sane shots.

I also had way more success just cheesing threes (defender close, immediate catch and shoot) against a knick user than playing any semblance of real basketball.

[Coach2K]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Everything you detail here is the exact problem I have against my friend and he just bought the game. Already knows how to cheese and rarely takes a good shot. It's either forcing himself to the paint with Jeremy Lin, dribbling in circles in the paint with Dwight, or throwing one up with Harden as soon as he catches it in the perimeter because there's lag in contesting and being close without your hands up or jumping to contest is a free three.

Meanwhile I miss open threes with Curry, just because he went on a 10 point Lin paint Harden 3 cheese run while I'm trying to take sane shots.

I also had way more success just cheesing threes (defender close, immediate catch and shoot) against a knick user than playing any semblance of real basketball.

It's a shame because that's so true lol.

[sreckless]

Re: The Sovartus Defense Tutorial and Points in the Paint Reduction Strategies

Everything you detail here is the exact problem I have against my friend and he just bought the game. Already knows how to cheese and rarely takes a good shot. It's either forcing himself to the paint with Jeremy Lin, dribbling in circles in the paint with Dwight, or throwing one up with Harden as soon as he catches it in the perimeter because there's lag in contesting and being close without your hands up or jumping to contest is a free three.

Meanwhile I miss open threes with Curry, just because he went on a 10 point Lin paint Harden 3 cheese run while I'm trying to take sane shots.

I also had way more success just cheesing threes (defender close, immediate catch and shoot) against a knick user than playing any semblance of real basketball.

Two big thumbs up.

Based on many of the threads around here and comments from developers, I have started to question how much of a commitment there is to balancing and improving play in online team vs. team (i.e. quick match).

I'm even beginning to wonder if the game being so good in this area (IMO) in 2k11 and 2k12 (less so in 2k13) was achieved by accident rather than careful design.