Fixed it!

[bigtreydawg]

Gentlemen and gentlemen I have fixed this game, quite by accident.

While play calling is completely broken I found freelance mode to be extremely responsive to tendency ratings, using (insert edited roster here) you'll see that most of the and 1 nonsense that this game does coming out of the box has been removed due to roster makers lowering ISO dribbling tendencies etc. Cool right?

But my problem is three things, despite however you adjust "look for Post" and "Post shot" Tim Duncan just does not want the ball. FGA is way to high due to someone shooting a midrange J the second there is a hint of daylight. I'm looking at you Kobe and Ellis!

And my last problem is a gross lacking of non steal related turnovers.

I fixed all of this (I accept cash rewards). People, how does a real game of Basketball play? Unless you a super star guard or Gasol you don't really see a lot of 1 dribble pull up J's because its a low percentage shot. Instead what you see is the best ball handler dribble to the Basket and passing the ball out to someone midrange who then pump fakes, dribbles the ball to the Basket and then passes to someone midrange. (Sad state of American Basketball).

But we can totally emulate that I found this out (by accident) when I tried my damndest to get Tim Duncan to post up (and actually have someone pass the ball to him) virtually every time down court.

Most sliders on OS suggest raising look for post and post shot to 100 and while this is true it's not enough you also have go to the coaching profile and lower inside midrange and take 3 to virtually zero. This leaves close shots as the most looked to means of scoring. I thought it would break the game but Holy ****! Here's what happened.

Tim Duncan did indeed have more touches (someone smarter than me please tell me which plays the CPU actually runs for low Post). Instead of the passer not acknowledging there best player frantically calling for the ball in the post they just passed it to him and let him work. Thank God.
But here is what also happened. Tony Parker who in my Roster has a high Attack the Basket tendency started shooting a lot of opportunistic floaters (also high Tendency). And it looked great. The second thing he did was drive and dish because I had messed with that attribute in order to get him more assists and that usually resulted in a shot that in previous forms of this game meant Green or Jackson was going to hoist up. Instead (when the defense came back to Green/Jackson) he pump faked and passed or tried to get *Close. Usually pass. But I fixed that too.

What happens in a real game of Basketball? Gentlemen and Gentlemen noone in the world is a lock down defender Bruce Bowen and Thabo get burned all the time because its really hard to stay in front of Kobe. Hell it's really hard to stay in front of me and I suck. What makes someone a good defender is how they anticipate where you're going and what they do with their hands. And we have Sliders for that.

While I hate using Global Sliders for this game especially don't do it for anything tendency related as far as shots go. Decreasing the on Ball D to around 27 for everyone was the best decision I've made in this game. Now people who usually don't have the ball handling skills like Stephen Jackson can make it past their Defender, not shoot the midrange J and if you edit the tendency to "pass out" as a finishing move for a drive he will make a smart decision on whether or not to lay up or dish. And if he's not that good of a passer the ball is not getting there.
More turnovers!!!!!

Here what you need to do. Apologize to your roster maker for messing with his fine work and put all your Tendencies back to 50 shooting.
Then. Go to coaching profile run plays to zero and (if you want more post play), lower inside mid and 3's to 0-2 depending on what you want to favor.
Note* this does not affect a players tendency overall just what you're likely to see on the court. People will still shoot 3s when open and midrange J's when open. But now more driving and passing.

I've done a number of other things to fine tune this but it's to extensive to list here, I strongly advise not messing with attribute and tendency sliders that affect what players do globally.

Someone please post a list of the 6 to 7 plays the CPU calls. I have a good idea for touch tendencies

[Jimbo614]

Re: Fixed it!

All I'm gonna say is that you and I made the same observation about real basketball stats and the results we was seeing from various slider sets.
It sounds like we both "Fixed" the problem at about the same time via different means.

It feels good reading someone else post the same doubts I was having. I thought maybe I was crazy,
Everybody else seemed so certain.

The point we're both making is the importance of the turnover/blocks/steals stats which most people seemingly have decided to ignore.

[kamackeris76]

Re: Fixed it!

Gentlemen and gentlemen I have fixed this game, quite by accident.

While play calling is completely broken I found freelance mode to be extremely responsive to tendency ratings, using (insert edited roster here) you'll see that most of the and 1 nonsense that this game does coming out of the box has been removed due to roster makers lowering ISO dribbling tendencies etc. Cool right?

But my problem is three things, despite however you adjust "look for Post" and "Post shot" Tim Duncan just does not want the ball. FGA is way to high due to someone shooting a midrange J the second there is a hint of daylight. I'm looking at you Kobe and Ellis!

And my last problem is a gross lacking of non steal related turnovers.

I fixed all of this (I accept cash rewards). People, how does a real game of Basketball play? Unless you a super star guard or Gasol you don't really see a lot of 1 dribble pull up J's because its a low percentage shot. Instead what you see is the best ball handler dribble to the Basket and passing the ball out to someone midrange who then pump fakes, dribbles the ball to the Basket and then passes to someone midrange. (Sad state of American Basketball).

But we can totally emulate that I found this out (by accident) when I tried my damndest to get Tim Duncan to post up (and actually have someone pass the ball to him) virtually every time down court.

Most sliders on OS suggest raising look for post and post shot to 100 and while this is true it's not enough you also have go to the coaching profile and lower inside midrange and take 3 to virtually zero. This leaves close shots as the most looked to means of scoring. I thought it would break the game but Holy ****! Here's what happened.

Tim Duncan did indeed have more touches (someone smarter than me please tell me which plays the CPU actually runs for low Post). Instead of the passer not acknowledging there best player frantically calling for the ball in the post they just passed it to him and let him work. Thank God.
But here is what also happened. Tony Parker who in my Roster has a high Attack the Basket tendency started shooting a lot of opportunistic floaters (also high Tendency). And it looked great. The second thing he did was drive and dish because I had messed with that attribute in order to get him more assists and that usually resulted in a shot that in previous forms of this game meant Green or Jackson was going to hoist up. Instead (when the defense came back to Green/Jackson) he pump faked and passed or tried to get *Close. Usually pass. But I fixed that too.

What happens in a real game of Basketball? Gentlemen and Gentlemen noone in the world is a lock down defender Bruce Bowen and Thabo get burned all the time because its really hard to stay in front of Kobe. Hell it's really hard to stay in front of me and I suck. What makes someone a good defender is how they anticipate where you're going and what they do with their hands. And we have Sliders for that.

While I hate using Global Sliders for this game especially don't do it for anything tendency related as far as shots go. Decreasing the on Ball D to around 27 for everyone was the best decision I've made in this game. Now people who usually don't have the ball handling skills like Stephen Jackson can make it past their Defender, not shoot the midrange J and if you edit the tendency to "pass out" as a finishing move for a drive he will make a smart decision on whether or not to lay up or dish. And if he's not that good of a passer the ball is not getting there.
More turnovers!!!!!

Here what you need to do. Apologize to your roster maker for messing with his fine work and put all your Tendencies back to 50 shooting.
Then. Go to coaching profile run plays to zero and (if you want more post play), lower inside mid and 3's to 0-2 depending on what you want to favor.
Note* this does not affect a players tendency overall just what you're likely to see on the court. People will still shoot 3s when open and midrange J's when open. But now more driving and passing.

I've done a number of other things to fine tune this but it's to extensive to list here, I strongly advise not messing with attribute and tendency sliders that affect what players do globally.

Someone please post a list of the 6 to 7 plays the CPU calls. I have a good idea for touch tendencies

could you not just edit a roster like you said above that has vannwolfs playbooks ??? also it would be great to see what you are seeing....how about posting your rosters and sliders so we all can look, play and critique your work??? i'm interested to see it play out

[timmio1990]

Re: Fixed it!

So essentially we need to leave tendecies as they are an go through and change coach profiles and end it individual player tendecies?

[Monix]

Re: Fixed it!

I did something similar, but not so drastic. I edited some of the global tendencies sliders. But I couldn’t really see any difference in the way the cup’s shot selection. (still too much points in the paint, no 3s, no postplay)
So I started editing the coaches profiles. I decreased all inside-,close- and attack the basket-sliders round about 30. No team should be higher than 50.<O</O
And I increased all sliders about 20 on 3 point, midrange and post to at least 70. The result was a total different game. All the problems were solved.<O</O
I think this year it is the coaching profile which really matter! Its rather a slider-set for every individual team than really a strategy-set.

Q: is there really a difference between editing every player tendency or editing the global slider? I’m not sure, but I don’t think there is!

[schnaidt1]

Re: Fixed it!

apparently u didnt read my slider thread cuz i had ppl zero out coaching sliders months ago.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Fixed it!

It's interesting to see that people have solved the same problems in different ways. I guess this game is more customizable than we thought!

I hear a lot of people say that they can't get the CPU to shoot 3's and post up when editing the global Tendency sliders, but I have had quite the opposite experience.

Also, I feel like Coach Profiles should NOT be altered so drastically. Sure, it makes the teams run off of individual players' tendencies, but I think that takes away from the feeling of using one specific team over another and makes coaches pretty much worthless/meaningless.

To apply this to real-life, I feel like if you could "0 out" the LA Lakers "coach sliders", they would be a SCARY good team. But since no-D' Antoni is coaching them, things aren't working out quite like they should be.

[STLRams]

Re: Fixed it!

Gentlemen and gentlemen I have fixed this game, quite by accident.

While play calling is completely broken I found freelance mode to be extremely responsive to tendency ratings, using (insert edited roster here) you'll see that most of the and 1 nonsense that this game does coming out of the box has been removed due to roster makers lowering ISO dribbling tendencies etc. Cool right?

But my problem is three things, despite however you adjust "look for Post" and "Post shot" Tim Duncan just does not want the ball. FGA is way to high due to someone shooting a midrange J the second there is a hint of daylight. I'm looking at you Kobe and Ellis!

And my last problem is a gross lacking of non steal related turnovers.

I fixed all of this (I accept cash rewards). People, how does a real game of Basketball play? Unless you a super star guard or Gasol you don't really see a lot of 1 dribble pull up J's because its a low percentage shot. Instead what you see is the best ball handler dribble to the Basket and passing the ball out to someone midrange who then pump fakes, dribbles the ball to the Basket and then passes to someone midrange. (Sad state of American Basketball).

But we can totally emulate that I found this out (by accident) when I tried my damndest to get Tim Duncan to post up (and actually have someone pass the ball to him) virtually every time down court.

Most sliders on OS suggest raising look for post and post shot to 100 and while this is true it's not enough you also have go to the coaching profile and lower inside midrange and take 3 to virtually zero. This leaves close shots as the most looked to means of scoring. I thought it would break the game but Holy ****! Here's what happened.

Tim Duncan did indeed have more touches (someone smarter than me please tell me which plays the CPU actually runs for low Post). Instead of the passer not acknowledging there best player frantically calling for the ball in the post they just passed it to him and let him work. Thank God.
But here is what also happened. Tony Parker who in my Roster has a high Attack the Basket tendency started shooting a lot of opportunistic floaters (also high Tendency). And it looked great. The second thing he did was drive and dish because I had messed with that attribute in order to get him more assists and that usually resulted in a shot that in previous forms of this game meant Green or Jackson was going to hoist up. Instead (when the defense came back to Green/Jackson) he pump faked and passed or tried to get *Close. Usually pass. But I fixed that too.

What happens in a real game of Basketball? Gentlemen and Gentlemen noone in the world is a lock down defender Bruce Bowen and Thabo get burned all the time because its really hard to stay in front of Kobe. Hell it's really hard to stay in front of me and I suck. What makes someone a good defender is how they anticipate where you're going and what they do with their hands. And we have Sliders for that.

While I hate using Global Sliders for this game especially don't do it for anything tendency related as far as shots go. Decreasing the on Ball D to around 27 for everyone was the best decision I've made in this game. Now people who usually don't have the ball handling skills like Stephen Jackson can make it past their Defender, not shoot the midrange J and if you edit the tendency to "pass out" as a finishing move for a drive he will make a smart decision on whether or not to lay up or dish. And if he's not that good of a passer the ball is not getting there.
More turnovers!!!!!

Here what you need to do. Apologize to your roster maker for messing with his fine work and put all your Tendencies back to 50 shooting.
Then. Go to coaching profile run plays to zero and (if you want more post play), lower inside mid and 3's to 0-2 depending on what you want to favor.
Note* this does not affect a players tendency overall just what you're likely to see on the court. People will still shoot 3s when open and midrange J's when open. But now more driving and passing.

I've done a number of other things to fine tune this but it's to extensive to list here, I strongly advise not messing with attribute and tendency sliders that affect what players do globally.

Someone please post a list of the 6 to 7 plays the CPU calls. I have a good idea for touch tendencies

So basically to get the CPU post players more involved and posting up we need to have the close shot tendency in the coachprofiles higher than the midrange, 3 point and inside shot tendency, correct?

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Fixed it!

So basically to get the CPU post players more involved and posting up we need to have the close shot tendency in the coachprofiles higher than the midrange, 3 point and inside shot tendency, correct?

Basically, this is exactly what I did with my sliders a while ago.

Shooting tends work like this; whether changed individually in the player tends or through global tend sliders.

50 will default to the player shot tend for that location. Anything above 50 will increase the tend for that location, opposite for below. The higher the number the more often the player will look to shoot from that location if able to, opposite for lower.

So if the coaching profile for shooting tends look like this;

Inside: 35
Close: 65
Mid: 45
3pt: 60

You will get some pretty good gameplay in reference to shot locations, tendencies to shoot.

@monix

Q: is there really a difference between editing every player tendency or editing the global slider? I’m not sure, but I don’t think there is!

No difference. Global sliders just alter the ratings, so if you manually change all players ratings/tendencies there is no need to alter those (newly altered) ratings/tends through sliders... its counterproductive.

Putting run plays at 0, will help with getting the post involved, unless you have Vanns playbooks installed already.

[Hyperballer21]

Re: Fixed it!

I can vouch for this theory. I did a test run with '98 Lakers vs '98 Bulls. Shaq got the ball in the post with the intent to score 8 out 10 times. Jordan was backing players down in the mid post and using his fadeaway jumper.

Both teams each shot about 10-12 threes, but keep in mind that teams back then didn't shoot that many threes.

I did notice at times players would get an offensive rebound and "reset" if they weren't in position to score. Points in the paint were above average. But with Jordan, Shaq, young Kobe and Pippen playing you can expect that.

Overall, I am satisfied with the results will be implementing this into my Roster Update.

[STLRams]

Re: Fixed it!

Basically, this is exactly what I did with my sliders a while ago.

Shooting tends work like this; whether changed individually in the player tends or through global tend sliders.

50 will default to the player shot tend for that location. Anything above 50 will increase the tend for that location, opposite for below. The higher the number the more often the player will look to shoot from that location if able to, opposite for lower.

So if the coaching profile for shooting tends look like this;

Inside: 35
Close: 65
Mid: 45
3pt: 60

You will get some pretty good gameplay in reference to shot locations, tendencies to shoot.

@monix No difference. Global sliders just alter the ratings, so if you manually change all players ratings/tendencies there is no need to alter those (newly altered) ratings/tends through sliders... its counterproductive.

Putting run plays at 0, will help with getting the post involved, unless you have Vanns playbooks installed already.

Interesting, would you say that we would get the same results or simular results of the CPU post players playing better if we just adjust the sliders instead of the coach profiles? Meaning gameplay sliders set at:

Inside: 35
Close: 65
Mid: 45
3pt: 60

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Fixed it!

Interesting, would you say that we would get the same results or simular results of the CPU post players playing better if we just adjust the sliders instead of the coach profiles? Meaning gameplay sliders set at:

Inside: 35
Close: 65
Mid: 45
3pt: 60

If you only adjust the global sliders you will still have the coaching profiles altering that global slider adjustment. So in a sense it would be kind-of counterproductive.

So:

Global = all players, all teams
Coaching = only that team
Players = only that player

Game goes off of player tendencies, then add in coaching profile adjustments, then global sliders alter on top of that.

So:

If you have X player with say 50 inside shot tend., the coach profile will adjust +- depending on where that coach profile is (+ = above 50, - = below 50), then the global slider will again alter +- depending on if above, below 50. So you can be counterproductive if you have coaching profile for inside at 25 and then global at 75.

It would be more beneficial to go through the coaching profiles, but yes you could do global slider edits but just remember that all teams will be getting the adjustments, which is fine as the coaching profiles will then alter the global edits a bit.

[STLRams]

Re: Fixed it!

If you only adjust the global sliders you will still have the coaching profiles altering that global slider adjustment. So in a sense it would be kind-of counterproductive.

So:

Global = all players, all teams
Coaching = only that team
Players = only that player

Game goes off of player tendencies, then add in coaching profile adjustments, then global sliders alter on top of that.

So:

If you have X player with say 50 inside shot tend., the coach profile will adjust +- depending on where that coach profile is (+ = above 50, - = below 50), then the global slider will again alter +- depending on if above, below 50. So you can be counterproductive if you have coaching profile for inside at 25 and then global at 75.

It would be more beneficial to go through the coaching profiles, but yes you could do global slider edits but just remember that all teams will be getting the adjustments, which is fine as the coaching profiles will then alter the global edits a bit.

Got you, so basically it would make more sense to adjust the coach profiles for teams that have a dominant post player to your suggested adjustments to have that star post player play he is supposed to and for the CPU A.I. get that ball to that post player more, makes sense.

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Fixed it!

Got you, so basically it would make more sense to adjust the coach profiles for teams that have a dominant post player to your suggested adjustments to have that star post player play he is supposed to and for the CPU A.I. get that ball to that post player more, makes sense.

Yes, you can do this, but if you have the correct global sliders there is really no need. With the correct global sliders, you can make teams with dominant big men utilize the post at a realistic rate, while teams without dominant big men won't utilize the paint as much.

It saves time and effort with about equal results, but both ways work just fine.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Fixed it!

Got you, so basically it would make more sense to adjust the coach profiles for teams that have a dominant post player to your suggested adjustments to have that star post player play he is supposed to and for the CPU A.I. get that ball to that post player more, makes sense.

Yes, the catch with doing the global is that all teams will take that effect. Only doing the teams coaching profile will alter only them and imo is the best way to get post (teams/players) to behave properly.

Now with the globals, if you only alter slightly (not going above say around 70) it will help all teams in getting to the post more, but the teams that already have a higher tend to go to the post will be going to the post even more, so in that sense it is beneficial, hence the reason I went that direction with my sliders rather than doing all the coaching profiles individually.

Now global is not perfect nor is it as good as going through the players and/or the teams profiles individually but it will work if you aren't OCD about 2k and the way it plays, I play mostly online and when I play offline its for practice and to have fun.