Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

[eVizions]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

You are misquoting me. Previously, I said we were not trying to make money from the LISTING FEE on card sales. The Listing Fee is small and there to make it so you have to put some thought into what you post on the Auction House to prevent junk auctions. The 20 credits isn't much but it is enough to give someone pause before they list a common card that is already on the AH a 100 times at the same price.

Do you really think there will be junk auctions when we each are limited to 5 auctions? If you allowed unlimited auctions, I could understand the posting fee, but with a limit of 5, people are already going to have to pick and choose which cards to go to auction with. We also then have to live with that decision for the next 12 hours, because a) you can't post it for less than 12 hours, and b) you make it difficult to buy-it-now with the higher prices. This leaves no room for error. I often am left with 4 or 5 unsold auctions that I have to wait on for 12 hours.

Also, why is it an issue if a common card is in there 100x? They won't sell, so it's really not affecting anything.

[ZLM]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

I actually have two questions not related to the AH or Season Rewards...
1)In the upcoming RTTC, are the draft boards separate from QG? I'm in Star in QG but only Leg++ in RTTC and it would suck to get hit with a Counter Reset in RTTC that reset my progress in Star, when I'm more than 200 board clears in.
2)I've noticed a lot of my card portraits of newer cards are missing. Any word when this will be fixed?
Thanks.

[Illmatic1909]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Chi Squared of the five average attributes, with a null of equal distributions. The p value is 0.0225, which is significant, otherwise meaning there is a 2.25% chance the five values are equally distributed.

I was going to goodness-of-fit too but thought it would be way over people's head...

[eVizions]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Ok I'll bite and take a moment to defend myself and feed the troll for a moment. I have been and always will be truthful with this community. Sometimes I can't give you details, but I don't make them up. Attacking my integrity I will not stand for as I do not lie to you, this community, or people in general. That's just not how I live my life.


To your specific instance of the card stats, I did check the stats, and on paper they do balance out. I have the spreadsheet, I've run the numbers. Anything you choose not to believe after that is on you. The perception in game that Offense is OP vs. other stats has to do with having 5 stats, having more players that have high Offense (not surprising in a basketball game, the scores aren't hockey scores after all), and that many of the combination events include Offense. It's a game design issue and one we'll look at in the future, but Offense as a stat is not higher than all the other stats.

I don't see where you're getting your numbers from. As others have posted, we've compiled the data ourselves and it is clearly offense heavy. If the numbers that these guys have is incorrect, let us know, but I don't see why the "believe me, it's balanced" argument should be valid when all we're trying to do is help make a better and more balanced game. Let us help you.

[Dextro]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

From my point of view, the last comments from NWGameDad just confirmed what I already thought.

We do have different opinions on it, that is something we have to accept. It might be the case, that our feedback was not all the time 100% respectful. But the basic message will be still the same, maybe in other words.

Doing such drastically changes without considering feedback is bad customer service in my opinion. And that is not trolling, that is my opinion on it. You don´t listen to it, that was proven several times in this thread.
As I said earlier, your luck is not the app, it is the license.

[Dextro]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

I actually have two questions not related to the AH or Season Rewards...
1)In the upcoming RTTC, are the draft boards separate from QG? I'm in Star in QG but only Leg++ in RTTC and it would suck to get hit with a Counter Reset in RTTC that reset my progress in Star, when I'm more than 200 board clears in.
2)I've noticed a lot of my card portraits of newer cards are missing. Any word when this will be fixed?
Thanks.

Store your picks and use them afterwards in a Quick Game. If not, your counter will be reset as there is only one and if you draft a Legend in Leg++ your progress is gone

[phamtaztik]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Store your picks and use them afterwards in a Quick Game. If not, your counter will be reset as there is only one and if you draft a Legend in Leg++ your progress is gone

How do you store your pick again? I thought they took it out for this year

[DrgnFlyDrft]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

What I do is wait until I have max cards, then train one away after each game. Still a chance if a reset but one pick at a time it takes forever. Then just train away your stockpile and pick in QG.

[ActionJack]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

How do you store your pick again? I thought they took it out for this year

You have to exit the game. Quickest way to do it, is with two devices. Just switch back and forth between the two, never drafting.

The best part of this update, to me, was seeing CD address scripters, without further hindering pick hoarding

[eVizions]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

However, in fairness I never equated 400 Credits to 2 Star cards. I said, I still stand by this, that Credits are a more flexible reward than a card. When you get Credits you can immediately take that and do something with it (buy Hot Streaks, use it to post the card you won at the same time on the AH, buy packs, save it for future use, etc.). Cards don't have the value everyone is throwing around unless the card actually sells. If it sells (and some are selling) then great you get the Credits, but if not you're left with a card that you either use or train away. It's not like winning a Season reward full of cards = instant Credits. If anything this change, although painful up front, will result in a more card sales for you in the future as the supply will be more reasonable.

You're contradicting yourself here. You're saying that credits are "more flexible" than a card, but all of the values that you set around cards says otherwise and ensures that the amount of credits given can't do much. Let's be honest, you can't save credits up for packs. Even if I win the highest amount of credits possible (400), I cannot buy a pack that is even remotely close to giving me a Star card (which is what I no longer get). You say that cards "don't have the value that everyone is throwing around unless the card actually sells", but the reason they aren't selling is because you've loaded up AH with a million restrictions. Let the economy dictate the value of the cards I just won and then it's up to me as to whether it sells.

As for the tax rate, no one will ever like it unless it is 0%. We have it there to draw Credits out of the economy (we are a business and still need to make money by selling Credits) and to prevent players from simply trading between accounts and bypassing the progression curve completely.

I disagree. I think the majority of us understand that a tax needs to exist in order to make this work. The problem is that you are charging 30%, which is double the highest tax that I've ever seen. That amount stifles any resale value of a card. You say that you need to "draw credits out of the economy", which is absolutely true, but not at that rate. You also have other built-in mechanisms for doing that which other games don't: using those credits on packs of un-sellable cards, training cards and even combining cards (to a certain degree) removes credits from the economy. So why would you add a 30% tax on top of that?

Our card economy is such that players have unlimited play (the only "energy" system we have is in RttC), which means there are plenty of opportunities for free cards (both in Quick Game and Seasons). If we remove the tax or lower to triviality, then be honest with yourself, many of you would simply start multiple accounts to take advantage of the free cards we give out at each tier, after x number of games, and in Seasons. You would then just trade them amongst the accounts (or even in a small group of friends) to accelerate your advancement to the point where there is no point to progression. Much like in any loot based system, players will always find the path of least resistance to advancement. The tax prevents that from occurring.

If you think that us getting 2 accounts to, let's say Legendary++ in QG, and then playing 200+ games in each, only to "share" the rewards with one account... well, I don't see the problem here. You would still have to play those games on both accounts, right? Maybe I'm missing something or misunderstood what you are saying. Personally, I don't think this justifies a 30% tax.

As for the minimums, they exist for the same reason. We give out so many free cards it is not the same as a real physical goods economy. There has to be minimums or the whole progression curve collapses as above. I will say what the minimums are is much debated inside Cat Daddy. Despite what people say, we did lower the minimums on most of the tiers. People are looking only at the BIN minimums and saying they are higher, but the bid minimums are lower than Beta. Yes, you may have to wait to get your card for the auction to complete, but they are cheaper. If you want the convenience of having the card immediately or to ensure you won it, then yes BIN is more. Is BIN minimums too high? Maybe, something we are evaluating. This system is no different than EBAY in having a different bid and BIN price.

First, it's clear that you guys don't trust a digital economy to manage and balance itself. I get that. I would like to point out, however, that you aren't pioneers here. This model has proven itself over and over. The system will work itself out. In fact, the worst thing that you could've done was take the AH away for an extended period of time. You now created another flood of cards that will need to work itself out, but once it does, the economy will work itself out and will benefit you guys. If my Star World B. Free only sells for 2500, guess what? That means that I have to sell that many more to be able to afford an MVP or HOF pack. Currently, one BIN will give me enough for an MVP pack (assuming someone buys it). Again, you have to let the economy work itself out.

Second, you may have lowered the minimum bids for a few tiers (although not Star, which is the tier that needed it the most), but raising the BIN price completely killed the system. There are very few cards that are worth 10k as a single, so now it's almost a guarantee that IF I sell a Star card, it won't be for 12 hours, which also means that I can't sell anything other than 5 cards in that time. You've literally set up 3 incompatible features (auction limit of 5, 12 hour minimum and BIN minimum of 10k) that make AH both a horrible experience and guaranteed to fail.

This is our feedback, man. I know you guys disagree, but things need to change and they need to change big time and sooner, rather than later. This model cannot survive.

[ActionJack]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

People would absolutely create multiple accounts to trade with themselves, funnel free Ladder credits to their main account, etc. CD is totally right to disallow that.

The tax is too high, but I feel the basic minimums are about right.

BIN minimums are too high though. They shouldn't be any more than 150% of the tier minimum. 200% is too high.

[Poetic]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Yesterday:

Those card values are all speculative though. 400 Credits is 400 Credits. Credits have a flexibility that cards simply do not. Players wanted more ways to win free Credits, so we gave it to you.

I disagree that the values stated for cards isn't speculative. It absolutely is because for cards to become Credits they have to sell. That's a big piece you're overlooking.

A big complaint during the Beta was that many cards did not sell, so saying your Star cards are worth x Credits just isn't true. Where as, Credits won in Season games now are definitive and something that is guaranteed. It is also something free players have an opportunity to gain Credits without using the Daily VC Bonus. The added benefit of the Credits as a Season reward is that it will infuse Credits into the AH economy allowing more cards to sell. A win for players on both ends.


I get on the surface it looks like a huge nerf to Season rewards, but in the long run I think players will come to appreciate getting guaranteed Credits for winning Seasons (or placing in the top 4).

You still win a top card, and even people that pay, Credits are still valuable. You can spend them on listing cards in the AH, you can buy cards from the AH, you can buy packs, you can spend them on Hot Streaks, etc. Credits are always valuable regardless of who you are.

Today:

To expand on what I have already said. The Seasons rewards were changed for a few reasons. First, we wanted a way to get free Credits to players that didn't have access to the Daily VC Bonus. We got a lot of feedback from the AH Beta that players wanted free Credits. However, we want players to earn those and not provide a means for the player to abuse the system to stack up thousands of free credits without playing. Seasons present that means of delivery. Seasons are free to begin with so there is nothing that denies any players from playing Season games.

Second, with the launch of the AH we added a new card economy. Since we don't restrict players from playing unlimited Quick Games or Season games we give out millions of cards each day. The card economy is simply too large right now to make the Auction House work right. We had to restrict the cards being pumped into the system. Reducing the Season rewards does that.

Third, with the AH and giving away a lot more free Credits allowing players access to buy things on the AH we had to make sure players didn't just skip from Rare to Star tier right away. With the AH players have a much easier avenue to Pro cards which is a significant means to progress. Given that we give you free Credits it isn't necessary to give you more random chances at cards in order to Pro them. Save your Credits and simply buy the exact card you need directly from the AH. It is a different means to progression than what players are used to, but a very powerful one.

With that said, we are looking at feedback and the data of what players are doing in game now that the changes are in place. Since Seasons take 4-5 days to complete we are not going to take immediate actions, we need the data possibly of a couple weeks to see what is happening in action. If we find things need to change we will change them. No different than the kind of analysis we did from the AH Beta or changes we have made to RC events in the past.

[TheEDGE_USA]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Why i got this

[Poetic]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Ok Danan. I don't see how your new points are an "expansion" of what you wrote yesterday but ok. So basically your telling us you nerfed season rewards so that your digital economy doesn't collapse. And to slow down Progression. Where did you mention these points yesterday at all? Please point me into the right direction in those quotes from yesterday.

You know why so many cards didn't sell? Because it took you so long to bring auction house beta live. We all had a lot of cards... I'm very sure it would have evened out.

Honestly, to date seasons where the only part of this game that required some strategy. What seed do I go for to at least get two star cards if I make it to the finals and stuff like that. THAT was fun. So many people already stopped energizing after the quarter finals. Some even went down to legendary. You took the fun out of seasons. It should make a difference what place you finish. Please don't try to explain me again how the extra credits are an incentive. We should be the judge of that. It is not. To us in Star Tier it doesn't matter if you finish in the Quarterfinals or the finals. It is actually better now to quit after the quarters. Because you can start a new season much sooner.

If you find someone who says otherwise please step forward and tell me I'm wrong.

Please. Do something soon. If you don't want to hand out three star cards - ok. How about:

Finals Winner 2 Star Cards 1 Legendary
Finals Looser 2 Star Cards
Semi Finals 1 Star Card 1 Legendary
Quarter Finals 1 Star Card

I personally don't need that credits. Nerf them...

[Poetic]

Re: Update 6 Release Notes - March 18th

Another idea. Give the finals winner a guaranteed dupe. The runner up gets two random star cards. That would be an incentive.