CatDaddy, do you hate us?

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  • etched Chaos
    Pro
    • Feb 2010
    • 800

    #1

    CatDaddy, do you hate us?

    Brad or NWGameDad, do you guys over at catdaddy hate us lowly players? Because every week it seems you make a change or 'fix' that hurts everyone below Star++ level. We don;t have buckets of cash nor do we have the time to play 100,000 times and yet every little advantage we try to find for ourselves is fixed or tweaked or removed.

    You don't want 3/2 - it's our only method to +5 RC's
    You changed the RC rewards so that only the top 1000 gets good value - making the need for +5 wins triply important
    Now you're removing the RTTC double-team strat - making acquiring even a Star card for us leg deckers impossible without spending credits (it was impossible before actually but you just made it even harder)

    My 8 best cards were acquired via RC, I have 9000 games clocked and I have zero leg pro's outside of RC, zero Epic pro's outside of RC and all my star cards (bar the freebie) were attained via RC too. It's hard enough to progress as it is for me, but you want to make it even harder.

    The key to progression is duping cards, but with how long to takes to even get a single leg, duping them is borderline impossible unless I go nuts on the AH. Which made the RC event a necessity and RTTC too, but because we can no longer get a leg pro or epic pro we have to go nuts for top 1000 and when that 3/2 fix comes in i think that will become impossible too.

    So again, do you hate us? Because from where I'm sitting it seems like it.
  • ASB37
    MVP
    • Feb 2003
    • 2624

    #2
    Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

    Originally posted by etched Chaos
    Brad or NWGameDad, do you guys over at catdaddy hate us lowly players? Because every week it seems you make a change or 'fix' that hurts everyone below Star++ level. We don;t have buckets of cash nor do we have the time to play 100,000 times and yet every little advantage we try to find for ourselves is fixed or tweaked or removed.

    You don't want 3/2 - it's our only method to +5 RC's
    You changed the RC rewards so that only the top 1000 gets good value - making the need for +5 wins triply important
    Now you're removing the RTTC double-team strat - making acquiring even a Star card for us leg deckers impossible without spending credits (it was impossible before actually but you just made it even harder)

    My 8 best cards were acquired via RC, I have 9000 games clocked and I have zero leg pro's outside of RC, zero Epic pro's outside of RC and all my star cards (bar the freebie) were attained via RC too. It's hard enough to progress as it is for me, but you want to make it even harder.

    The key to progression is duping cards, but with how long to takes to even get a single leg, duping them is borderline impossible unless I go nuts on the AH. Which made the RC event a necessity and RTTC too, but because we can no longer get a leg pro or epic pro we have to go nuts for top 1000 and when that 3/2 fix comes in i think that will become impossible too.

    So again, do you hate us? Because from where I'm sitting it seems like it.
    I'm pretty new to the game but it's pretty clear that CD's reasoning for some of their choices are not supported in fact or logical reasoning.
    Go Yankees
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    Go Giants


    "You play to win the game."

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    • Melcho
      Pro
      • Feb 2015
      • 501

      #3
      CatDaddy, do you hate us?

      Where did they say they're removing rttc double team strat? I missed it

      Never mind, SmartForce put the link in the main thread.
      Last edited by Melcho; 04-13-2015, 05:50 PM.

      Comment

      • Rip4ever
        Pro
        • Jun 2006
        • 679

        #4
        Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

        Originally posted by etched Chaos
        Brad or NWGameDad, do you guys over at catdaddy hate us lowly players? Because every week it seems you make a change or 'fix' that hurts everyone below Star++ level. We don;t have buckets of cash nor do we have the time to play 100,000 times and yet every little advantage we try to find for ourselves is fixed or tweaked or removed.

        You don't want 3/2 - it's our only method to +5 RC's
        You changed the RC rewards so that only the top 1000 gets good value - making the need for +5 wins triply important
        Now you're removing the RTTC double-team strat - making acquiring even a Star card for us leg deckers impossible without spending credits (it was impossible before actually but you just made it even harder)

        My 8 best cards were acquired via RC, I have 9000 games clocked and I have zero leg pro's outside of RC, zero Epic pro's outside of RC and all my star cards (bar the freebie) were attained via RC too. It's hard enough to progress as it is for me, but you want to make it even harder.

        The key to progression is duping cards, but with how long to takes to even get a single leg, duping them is borderline impossible unless I go nuts on the AH. Which made the RC event a necessity and RTTC too, but because we can no longer get a leg pro or epic pro we have to go nuts for top 1000 and when that 3/2 fix comes in i think that will become impossible too.

        So again, do you hate us? Because from where I'm sitting it seems like it.

        If fixing 3/2 makes +5s harder it does so for everyone. Any effect on ranking would I think be minimal. If you have to play +3/+1 to win so will everyone else.

        Well everyone who doesn't have a lineup of Pro RC and pay2win cards

        Comment

        • SmartForce
          MVP
          • Mar 2015
          • 1845

          #5
          Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

          Originally posted by Rip4ever
          If fixing 3/2 makes +5s harder it does so for everyone. Any effect on ranking would I think be minimal. If you have to play +3/+1 to win so will everyone else.

          Well everyone who doesn't have a lineup of Pro RC and pay2win cards
          The fallacy in this thinking is that we've already had a bunch of RCs and quite a lot of people can put a full lineup of Pro RC cards (out of position is irrelevant with how much better the stats are) and just be impossible to beat, and be able to win 100% ... those people got there by using the 3/2 approach.
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          • Rip4ever
            Pro
            • Jun 2006
            • 679

            #6
            Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

            Originally posted by SmartForce
            The fallacy in this thinking is that we've already had a bunch of RCs and quite a lot of people can put a full lineup of Pro RC cards (out of position is irrelevant with how much better the stats are) and just be impossible to beat, and be able to win 100% ... those people got there by using the 3/2 approach.
            Define "a lot of people"?

            25?

            100?

            I see a heck of a lot more Pro HoF cards and such. Pro RCs are fairly rare and people with multiple Pro RC cards even rarer. So few that I have many of their names memorized so I can avoid them in QG.

            Comment

            • brad_nicholson
              Community Manager at Cat Daddy Games
              • Mar 2015
              • 178

              #7
              Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

              Originally posted by etched Chaos
              Brad or NWGameDad, do you guys over at catdaddy hate us lowly players? Because every week it seems you make a change or 'fix' that hurts everyone below Star++ level. We don;t have buckets of cash nor do we have the time to play 100,000 times and yet every little advantage we try to find for ourselves is fixed or tweaked or removed.

              You don't want 3/2 - it's our only method to +5 RC's
              You changed the RC rewards so that only the top 1000 gets good value - making the need for +5 wins triply important
              Now you're removing the RTTC double-team strat - making acquiring even a Star card for us leg deckers impossible without spending credits (it was impossible before actually but you just made it even harder)

              My 8 best cards were acquired via RC, I have 9000 games clocked and I have zero leg pro's outside of RC, zero Epic pro's outside of RC and all my star cards (bar the freebie) were attained via RC too. It's hard enough to progress as it is for me, but you want to make it even harder.

              The key to progression is duping cards, but with how long to takes to even get a single leg, duping them is borderline impossible unless I go nuts on the AH. Which made the RC event a necessity and RTTC too, but because we can no longer get a leg pro or epic pro we have to go nuts for top 1000 and when that 3/2 fix comes in i think that will become impossible too.

              So again, do you hate us? Because from where I'm sitting it seems like it.


              no, we don't hate you.


              want to say at the top: that's an awesome amount of games, man, and i'm flattered that you have as much dedication to NBA as you do. it really sucks that you're not feeling great about the directions we're heading in. maybe i can help.


              i don't want to be reductionist, but i feel like your thesis goes something like this: "i feel like the game is quickly becoming too restrictive and as a free-player that bothers me." correct me if this isn't the case. if it is, there's a few things we can unpack here.


              our goal is to make the game competitive, engaging, and fun. to that end, yeah, we are ramping up the strategic diversity by getting rid of the 3/2. we want you to use your five best cards, and think about what each of those cards brings to the table. more so, when you get an awesome card, we don't want your first response to be "oh, i shouldn't use this." rather, we want you to be execited and want to use it.


              the reason why obtaining pros is hard is because obtaining great cards, in general, takes time. events, as you've discovered, are a great way to win cards that may or may not drop in the near future for you. i'm sorry the reward structure frustrates you.


              many avenues are still available to you, though. you can sell some great stuff at the auction house and then acquire what you want. you can also just earn credits outside of that, too.

              Comment

              • SmartForce
                MVP
                • Mar 2015
                • 1845

                #8
                Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                Originally posted by Rip4ever
                Define "a lot of people"?

                25?

                100?

                I see a heck of a lot more Pro HoF cards and such. Pro RCs are fairly rare and people with multiple Pro RC cards even rarer. So few that I have many of their names memorized so I can avoid them in QG.
                Let me put it another way. There are clearly more than 100 people who would still be able to easily win 90%+ on the +5 and just hotstreak away from everyone else.

                I'm curious to see how they address the situation. With the current 3/2 strategy being dominant, I can drop down into the low end of Star+ during the RC event and consistently win against Star+ oppenents, which is what I see 99% of the time for my +5. All I need to do is get one win in the first 3 quarters and play my 2 junkers that can proc team buffs on the other two quarters, and then my other 2 cards finish it out in OT.

                Once they do whatever it is they're going to do, and people will be running their best 5 cards ... it's going to be basically impossible for anyone that isn't already running Pro HoF, Pro PnP, Pro MVP or Pro RC cards in every slot to win the +5s ... outside of luck. Basically the only potential strat I can think of is to run the best possible Star Pro you can dupe on the AH with each stat, so you can win all the same stat vs. same stat matchups, and win the OFF matchups.

                And I'm fairly sure that will result in way less than the win rate people have been able to achieve until now.

                And really, I don't think the idea of wanting people to be able to use their cards is a bad one. I mean ... it certainly takes a considerable investment of time and/or money to get them, so being restricted to just using 3 has people getting good cards that are just bench fodder.

                But ... this kind of change feels (to me) like something that should go into next year's app. We'll see what they do ... not a lot of sense in complaining about it until we see it, and they apparently don't want to tell us ahead of time (and my guess is they won't explicitly tell us what they change when it drops either ... we'll have to figure it out ourselves).
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                Comment

                • nbcards
                  Rookie
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 334

                  #9
                  Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                  Couldn't they help prevent the 3/2 lineup if they would randomize the order of how the cards are played? If the best cards would not be in the first and third quarter and instead randomly it would be harder for 3/2 lineups to win.
                  St. Louis Cardinals
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                  Comment

                  • Rip4ever
                    Pro
                    • Jun 2006
                    • 679

                    #10
                    Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                    If they figure out a way and it works it will certainly be better next year. Part of the problems you mention are there because the 3/2 allowed it in the first place. Now you have built up these high end card Whales and keeping them from winning a lot will be a challenge. Hopefully there are enough they can put them facing each other.

                    Matchmaking based on the best three cards sounds like a pretty decent quick fix.

                    Comment

                    • Melcho
                      Pro
                      • Feb 2015
                      • 501

                      #11
                      Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                      B Rad. Can I call you B Rad? Lemme call you B Rad.

                      I think what frustrates a lot of players here is that loopholes, vulnerabilities and exploits are closed before the masses get a chance to have a crack at them.

                      Cases in point:

                      a. Scripts: The fix came way too late and people running these had progressed way ahead already and made a stack of credits off the AH with their illegitimate cards

                      b. 3 Star Season Rewards & horrible season matchmaking: You weren't around then but lots of users used to just post saying "I'm starting a star season, stay out", they would try their best to be faced with less human opponents (bots were easier to beat), they'd then cash in 3 stars every 4-5 days (3 Stars - it seems insane now!) and sell them on the AH. Those credits were then used to strengthen their lineups (again, to beat who? bots?) and so on.

                      c. 3/2 lineup: It's pretty much become the norm really, especially for RC. I agree with what someone said in the main thread. Winning +5 games should be high risk high reward sort of scenario, but instead +5 with 3/2 and hot streaks is pretty much the norm.

                      Now, you combine those 3 points above and you have the perfect storm:

                      A player who scripted their way to many games played/wins or demolished star seasons very early, and all the while used those gains to sell lots and lots of cards early on, then used these credits for Hot Streaks to fund RCs and RttCs as well as the best packs.

                      These players are few and far between and most aren't a complete mix of traits I outlined above, but regardless they are miles ahead now and the rest don't have the same 'generous' opportunities to catch up.

                      Now. I agree with the 3 fixes outlined above, but what I would say, is that these should've been in place since day 1 and you probably wouldn't be dealing with the criticism as much. That said I understand hindsight is 20/20. And as a developer myself that has built websites, games, and competitions used by hundreds of thousands of users I understand that sometimes real world scale reveals patterns and issues that never arose in testing/staging.

                      Ultimately the player base, this forum and gameplay stats will probably tell you that you guys have built a hell of a game, for something so simple it is quite addictive and fun, particularly for us NBA fans and ex card collectors. So good job there!

                      My thoughts are that a lot of 'lower' players are just not thrilled that all these opportunities afforded earlier are being closed and as a result some 'fairness' is lost. Thus, the game seems to be being made 'harder' for them, but in actual fact all you guys are trying to do is fix exploits that shouldn't have been there in the first place.

                      Comment

                      • Bgartz29
                        Rookie
                        • Jul 2013
                        • 141

                        #12
                        Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                        Originally posted by Melcho
                        B Rad. Can I call you B Rad? Lemme call you B Rad.

                        I think what frustrates a lot of players here is that loopholes, vulnerabilities and exploits are closed before the masses get a chance to have a crack at them.

                        Cases in point:

                        a. Scripts: The fix came way too late and people running these had progressed way ahead already and made a stack of credits off the AH with their illegitimate cards

                        b. 3 Star Season Rewards & horrible season matchmaking: You weren't around then but lots of users used to just post saying "I'm starting a star season, stay out", they would try their best to be faced with less human opponents (bots were easier to beat), they'd then cash in 3 stars every 4-5 days (3 Stars - it seems insane now!) and sell them on the AH. Those credits were then used to strengthen their lineups (again, to beat who? bots?) and so on.

                        c. 3/2 lineup: It's pretty much become the norm really, especially for RC. I agree with what someone said in the main thread. Winning +5 games should be high risk high reward sort of scenario, but instead +5 with 3/2 and hot streaks is pretty much the norm.

                        Now, you combine those 3 points above and you have the perfect storm:

                        A player who scripted their way to many games played/wins or demolished star seasons very early, and all the while used those gains to sell lots and lots of cards early on, then used these credits for Hot Streaks to fund RCs and RttCs as well as the best packs.

                        These players are few and far between and most aren't a complete mix of traits I outlined above, but regardless they are miles ahead now and the rest don't have the same 'generous' opportunities to catch up.

                        Now. I agree with the 3 fixes outlined above, but what I would say, is that these should've been in place since day 1 and you probably wouldn't be dealing with the criticism as much. That said I understand hindsight is 20/20. And as a developer myself that has built websites, games, and competitions used by hundreds of thousands of users I understand that sometimes real world scale reveals patterns and issues that never arose in testing/staging.

                        Ultimately the player base, this forum and gameplay stats will probably tell you that you guys have built a hell of a game, for something so simple it is quite addictive and fun, particularly for us NBA fans and ex card collectors. So good job there!

                        My thoughts are that a lot of 'lower' players are just not thrilled that all these opportunities afforded earlier are being closed and as a result some 'fairness' is lost. Thus, the game seems to be being made 'harder' for them, but in actual fact all you guys are trying to do is fix exploits that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
                        This should be fixed as soon as possible and shouldn't affect current or future players. The people that got more cards via the exploits will play others who did as well and us normal people will play our similar ranked foes. There is no competition so it shouldn't matter to you what everyone else has since you battle similar ranked opponents.

                        Comment

                        • secrules2
                          Pro
                          • Aug 2014
                          • 552

                          #13
                          Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                          Originally posted by Melcho
                          B Rad. Can I call you B Rad? Lemme call you B Rad.

                          I think what frustrates a lot of players here is that loopholes, vulnerabilities and exploits are closed before the masses get a chance to have a crack at them.

                          Cases in point:

                          a. Scripts: The fix came way too late and people running these had progressed way ahead already and made a stack of credits off the AH with their illegitimate cards

                          b. 3 Star Season Rewards & horrible season matchmaking: You weren't around then but lots of users used to just post saying "I'm starting a star season, stay out", they would try their best to be faced with less human opponents (bots were easier to beat), they'd then cash in 3 stars every 4-5 days (3 Stars - it seems insane now!) and sell them on the AH. Those credits were then used to strengthen their lineups (again, to beat who? bots?) and so on.

                          c. 3/2 lineup: It's pretty much become the norm really, especially for RC. I agree with what someone said in the main thread. Winning +5 games should be high risk high reward sort of scenario, but instead +5 with 3/2 and hot streaks is pretty much the norm.

                          Now, you combine those 3 points above and you have the perfect storm:

                          A player who scripted their way to many games played/wins or demolished star seasons very early, and all the while used those gains to sell lots and lots of cards early on, then used these credits for Hot Streaks to fund RCs and RttCs as well as the best packs.

                          These players are few and far between and most aren't a complete mix of traits I outlined above, but regardless they are miles ahead now and the rest don't have the same 'generous' opportunities to catch up.

                          Now. I agree with the 3 fixes outlined above, but what I would say, is that these should've been in place since day 1 and you probably wouldn't be dealing with the criticism as much. That said I understand hindsight is 20/20. And as a developer myself that has built websites, games, and competitions used by hundreds of thousands of users I understand that sometimes real world scale reveals patterns and issues that never arose in testing/staging.

                          Ultimately the player base, this forum and gameplay stats will probably tell you that you guys have built a hell of a game, for something so simple it is quite addictive and fun, particularly for us NBA fans and ex card collectors. So good job there!

                          My thoughts are that a lot of 'lower' players are just not thrilled that all these opportunities afforded earlier are being closed and as a result some 'fairness' is lost. Thus, the game seems to be being made 'harder' for them, but in actual fact all you guys are trying to do is fix exploits that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
                          I'm guessing you'll be able to answer this as well as anyone so did the pop-up have any outcome on the RC's?

                          I would love to know if there was a change at the top.
                          IGN: secrules2
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                          • Melcho
                            Pro
                            • Feb 2015
                            • 501

                            #14
                            Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                            Originally posted by Bgartz29
                            This should be fixed as soon as possible and shouldn't affect current or future players. The people that got more cards via the exploits will play others who did as well and us normal people will play our similar ranked foes. There is no competition so it shouldn't matter to you what everyone else has since you battle similar ranked opponents.
                            It doesn't effect me personally for the most part (I am going to be on 14 star pros in a moment and have about 35 stars total including multiple RC stars - I also stick to grinding star+ with a weaker lineup so I don't have to face certain harder opponents and keep my win rate 98% to maximize rewards).

                            I'm just trying to highlight what I feel frustrates players based on what I've read (season reward nerf for example). That nerf would seem to make things unfair for those that missed out on the generosity of it, but in reality CD are just doing it to try and balance the game.

                            I don't think they are doing any of these things to screw over 'lowly' players like the thread suggests, they are just trying to close gaps that shouldn't have been there in the first place, and as a result unfortunately those who missed out on those gaps feel the game is becoming more difficult. That's all I'm saying.

                            I'm easy, I like the game and for the most part am chill with the decisions they make

                            Comment

                            • seedykiwi
                              Rookie
                              • Apr 2015
                              • 71

                              #15
                              Re: CatDaddy, do you hate us?

                              I had a couple of ideas, they weren't all that good but maybe someone could expand on them..

                              For RC events, Drop hot streaks like energy cards, 1 on every board, and they don't reset the board. (at the moment the drop rate is ridiculous, I played over 1400 games and got 4.)

                              Give a bonus point for winning more than 3 quarters (not affected by hot streaks) and people might think twice about throwing 2 quarters away with junk cards... (but then they might just upscale their junk cards).

                              But my favourite Idea is this....

                              Don't change a thing... leave it for next years game.
                              There Are No Heroes, Only Warriors.

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