Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

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  • SilkiestSkillzz
    Rookie
    • Jun 2015
    • 460

    #61
    Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

    Originally posted by ActionJack
    Yeah, and the funny thing is, there was a card hierarchy anyway in 2k15, even with stats being so close.

    People hated on World B Free so hard, but his card was very good. People are going to favor the more popular players anyway. Might as well make it numerically logical to match.
    Hope this happens
    The Prodigal Son has returned to MyTeam Mobile as of 11th November 2015
    QG Tier: Leg++
    MVP: Pro RttC D Wade

    Good Transactions: Too many to list... Head on over to the Good Transactions thread!

    Comment

    • PrimeTime2K
      Rookie
      • Apr 2014
      • 43

      #62
      Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

      I keep checking backing hoping that Danan or our community manager will respond Maybe this weekend

      Comment

      • NWGameDad
        Cat Daddy Games
        • Dec 2013
        • 1239

        #63
        Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

        Not sure how this thread became the stats discussion thread, but with such an excellent post from ActionJack in here it seems the place to reply.


        To boil AJ's post down, I would say you hit the head on the nail for several pieces. When we create stats for players it is complex and has to take into account several factors:


        1. Stats that make sense for the player so that cards feel like they are based on the NBA.


        2. Balance amongst the cards so that a Super Rare feels like a Super Rare and not a Rare or Ultra Rare. At the same time, keeping to #1 so we don't completely break a player.


        3. Variety - We want cards to not all be alike and have some personality besides just a different picture. Something that can be quite tough when we have so many cards in the game.


        Trying to balance all 3 of those things can be challenging. Last year we thought bumping up to 5 stats would make it easier to get the variety we hoped for, but it ended up making it more difficult to balance. A lot of the cards ended up feeling the same. By dialing back to 4 this year we can give cards a bit stronger roles and identity in your deck (and just visually make the game easier on the eyes). It has also allowed us to change the formulas for converting the NBA 2K16 spreadsheets into our 4 stats to be more accurate.


        Accuracy on stats is always a difficult thing too, as you can tell by the stat discussions that happen on NBA 2K every year. Is a player with high PPG a great offensive player or is he just playing with really poor teammates? Is he just hogging the ball? How do you measure a great defender? Someone like Michael Cooper was a fantastic defender, but his stats don't reflect it. We try to get the right feel with what we do, sometimes we're on it, sometimes not. We always try to make it better (like the change with PO cards this year). We also start from a good place with the data we get from the 2K Sports team each year. Those guys have years of working with those stats, and have dedicated people to making sure their player stats are right, and the players feel right in the game. We draft off of that quite a bit.


        With that said, we still end up in situations where we have to make some changes to suit our game. One example for you, recently we got the '16 roster. After building the starter decks for each team a few teams don't have any players in the Rare rarity. We *must* have at least 1 Rare card for each team, or the starter decks just don't work. So we're in the position of having to elevate someone or lower someone on the team to make it work for us. If we didn't everyone would just choose the team that gives you a Super Rare off the bat vs. a Rare.


        Like I said, lots of things for us to have to juggle. I know you may not always agree with the decisions, but we put a lot of effort into trying to get the cards right. It definitely hurts to read things like, "CD doesn't care" when we spend hours each week trying to get the stats right for our new cards. You can disagree, but I certainly know that we care a lot about getting it right. I think we're on great path for '16 with the new system, of course time will tell when we get the game launched, and I'm sure you'll all let us know how we did. :-)


        ActionJack - Thanks for the post. I appreciate the constructive nature of what you write.
        NWGameDad
        Senior Producer
        Cat Daddy Games

        Comment

        • apos1914
          All Star
          • Nov 2014
          • 6278

          #64
          Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

          Originally posted by NWGameDad
          Not sure how this thread became the stats discussion thread, but with such an excellent post from ActionJack in here it seems the place to reply.


          To boil AJ's post down, I would say you hit the head on the nail for several pieces. When we create stats for players it is complex and has to take into account several factors:


          1. Stats that make sense for the player so that cards feel like they are based on the NBA.


          2. Balance amongst the cards so that a Super Rare feels like a Super Rare and not a Rare or Ultra Rare. At the same time, keeping to #1 so we don't completely break a player.


          3. Variety - We want cards to not all be alike and have some personality besides just a different picture. Something that can be quite tough when we have so many cards in the game.


          Trying to balance all 3 of those things can be challenging. Last year we thought bumping up to 5 stats would make it easier to get the variety we hoped for, but it ended up making it more difficult to balance. A lot of the cards ended up feeling the same. By dialing back to 4 this year we can give cards a bit stronger roles and identity in your deck (and just visually make the game easier on the eyes). It has also allowed us to change the formulas for converting the NBA 2K16 spreadsheets into our 4 stats to be more accurate.


          Accuracy on stats is always a difficult thing too, as you can tell by the stat discussions that happen on NBA 2K every year. Is a player with high PPG a great offensive player or is he just playing with really poor teammates? Is he just hogging the ball? How do you measure a great defender? Someone like Michael Cooper was a fantastic defender, but his stats don't reflect it. We try to get the right feel with what we do, sometimes we're on it, sometimes not. We always try to make it better (like the change with PO cards this year). We also start from a good place with the data we get from the 2K Sports team each year. Those guys have years of working with those stats, and have dedicated people to making sure their player stats are right, and the players feel right in the game. We draft off of that quite a bit.


          With that said, we still end up in situations where we have to make some changes to suit our game. One example for you, recently we got the '16 roster. After building the starter decks for each team a few teams don't have any players in the Rare rarity. We *must* have at least 1 Rare card for each team, or the starter decks just don't work. So we're in the position of having to elevate someone or lower someone on the team to make it work for us. If we didn't everyone would just choose the team that gives you a Super Rare off the bat vs. a Rare.


          Like I said, lots of things for us to have to juggle. I know you may not always agree with the decisions, but we put a lot of effort into trying to get the cards right. It definitely hurts to read things like, "CD doesn't care" when we spend hours each week trying to get the stats right for our new cards. You can disagree, but I certainly know that we care a lot about getting it right. I think we're on great path for '16 with the new system, of course time will tell when we get the game launched, and I'm sure you'll all let us know how we did. :-)


          ActionJack - Thanks for the post. I appreciate the constructive nature of what you write.
          I think the main point of ActionJack's post and the thing that concerns us the most (as far as player's stats go) is that when you do the stats for next year's players, dont be "afraid" to make some players overpowered.

          Players like Lebron James or Larry Bird, should be way way better than the rest. I know that those two are the strongest draftable POs in the game, but that's mainly due to an overpowered OFF and the rest of their stats are really low. Lebron should have a very high PM, a high REB and an extremely high ATH. Bird's REB is one of the lowest amongst POs, yet he averaged 10 rebounds per game through his entire career.

          We really wont mind if there are huge differences between players. No one will have a problem with that, trust me.
          Bring Romar back!!!

          Comment

          • Daniel83
            Rookie
            • May 2015
            • 277

            #65
            Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

            Originally posted by apos1914
            I think the main point of ActionJack's post and the thing that concerns us the most (as far as player's stats go) is that when you do the stats for next year's players, dont be "afraid" to make some players overpowered.

            Players like Lebron James or Larry Bird, should be way way better than the rest. I know that those two are the strongest draftable POs in the game, but that's mainly due to an overpowered OFF and the rest of their stats are really low. Lebron should have a very high PM, a high REB and an extremely high ATH. Bird's REB is one of the lowest amongst POs, yet he averaged 10 rebounds per game through his entire career.

            We really wont mind if there are huge differences between players. No one will have a problem with that, trust me.

            Yep i think most of us wont mind if some players are just significantly better than others.

            Maybe if they widen the paramaters of the stats it would allow for more room to create accurate players.

            Right now in 2k15 Stars are ranging from 3000-3500 (MVP around 3700, and HOF around 4100). But then PO cards jump to around 6400 as lowest card stats. Maybe if the range for PO cards would be say 5500- 7500 it would leave much more room to create correct stats.
            A James Jones could have like 7000 OFF and then all his other stats around 6000, while LeBron would have all of his stats at 7000+

            Stars still wont beat PO cards. And it means that James Jones PO only has a chance to beat LeBron PO with his OFF vs LeBron's lowest stat.

            There is just no way it should be possible for Delly to beat Stockton at PM. And with a wider stat range you could solve these problems.

            Delly should just be what he is; training fodder! (sorry joesseoj)
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            Comment

            • Dextro
              MVP
              • Feb 2015
              • 1983

              #66
              Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

              Why do we even get a James Jones PO card? He is just not worth it - compare it to the RTTC Warrior cards - everybody is using Ezeli and Bogut.
              Sure they reached the finals, but they are still not the best centers of 2015.

              We do have so many worthless cards, just because of their policy. Hopefully this will change next year.

              Comment

              • Alqwer
                Rookie
                • Jul 2015
                • 136

                #67
                Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

                I can't understand willingness to overpower some of the players. There are different tiers of players. Everyone in a tier should be equal. You want an overpowered card? Get one from special edition pack like HoF, MVP, PnP etc.
                Does no one understand that you are basically asking to change faces on RTTC Warriors cards? Of course I would be happy to know that Ezeli has lower pm than JW but don't you think that everyone will be running line-ups of the same cards that are top in their tier by a big margin like they do now with Warriors? It will be the same situation as the current one (that causes a lot of frustration every second quick game as I encounter multiple RTTC warriors).
                Last edited by Alqwer; 08-17-2015, 01:38 PM.

                Comment

                • ActionJack
                  Pro
                  • Mar 2014
                  • 586

                  #68
                  Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

                  Originally posted by apos1914
                  I think the main point of ActionJack's post and the thing that concerns us the most (as far as player's stats go) is that when you do the stats for next year's players, dont be "afraid" to make some players overpowered.
                  Yeah, if there's one thing I'd like to be taken away from my post, it's that.

                  Again, just crunching numbers, it looks like there was an effort made to make PO tier better than others. I know when I first looked at this in Legend tier, the very best and very worst card in the tier, fell within 1% of each other in total stats.

                  I just looked at the numbers and for PO tier, the numbers were initially at 1.4%, and have been expanded further from there, with new cards added, albeit all on the lower scale, which does not add any meaningful functionality. This is a step in the right direction (whether deliberate or not). I just believe it needs to be opened up further.

                  If we push the window to just 2%, it gives an extra 200 points (on a fully trained Pro, not on the initial stats) to use on Lebron's card. If we add that entirely to PM, Lebron now becomes a 7k+ PM card, which is way more in line with who we know Lebron to be.

                  Realistically though, this is STILL low for Lebron's PM, and it doesn't touch his REB, which is still criminally low.

                  IMO, the number needs to be around 3%. This would give us an extra 550 points to throw onto Lebron's fully trained PO Pro, instead of the 200 with a 2% window.

                  With 550 points, Lebron could scrape 7k in PM and REB, while bumping his ATH to around 7.1k. Now it feels much more like Lebron.

                  Obviously, the exact percentages will be very different in a new game, especially one with a different stat structure. The spirit remains though. I, personally, would MUCH rather have somewhat imbalanced cards, with accurate stats. This just opens up more fun also, which is really the whole point. Drafting a Westbrook card should feel fun. He's an explosive, dynamic, well rounded player, so his card should be just as exciting.

                  There does need to be balance, but 3% difference (or 4.. or 5) still leaves balance very much intact. Obviously we need to avoid 2k14 Mullin/Yao situations, but it can be done without sacrificing accuracy, variety, and in my opinion fun, quite as much as the stat formula did this year.

                  Comment

                  • 5ko5
                    Rookie
                    • Mar 2015
                    • 102

                    #69
                    Re: Blog: Customization in MyNBA2K16

                    I also like the idea for greater margins between cards. You can balance by reducing the probability of getting them (e.g. lower drop rates) / making sure the supply is relatively low.

                    Another idea is to add some game mechanics that force better lineup variety (so you dont see all the same cards all the time). In the current app for a long time you needed 3-5 top cards for QG and 8-10 top cards for seasons. With RTTC, this moved up to 13-15 top cards. RTTC at least for me made the app exciting again for a while.
                    What if you could only energize your players during seasons by resting them for a few games (so no energy cards)? The season requirement will be up to 16-20 top cards (needs to extend the bench to 10 players) and will also add a new tactical element to playoff match-ups. And all of the 20 players on the roster should be unique (e.g. no 4 Le Brons rotating at SF). Will add more variety and dynamism to seasons..
                    You can implement something similar in QGs - once a card is played in say 100 (or 200 or more) QGs, it gets a 20-25% stat penalty and needs to "rest" for some time, before back to full strength. You can fine tune the "rest" duration to define how many top cards you need to maintain consistently a top lineup in QGs.

                    Anyway, just my views about what will make the game more fun to me. Obviously, others might see it different.

                    Comment

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