What Live series does wrong and right!

[Behindshadows]

I was playing NBA Live 09 tonight and really feeling it, and I was just trying to look for areas of negative and good things to see what has been keeping this game from being #1.

Sadly enough majority of the things are so simple it boggles my mind as to how in the hell they are 4 games into Next Gen and still haven't figured it out. Majority of the problems with this game, lie within the visuals and presentation.

VISUALS

Okay lets talk about what is right first, just so this doesn't seem like a bash fest, because I'm sure the 2k junkies are waiting to add a lot of negativity to what I'm about to say!

Visually the graphics engine on this game is gorgeous, from the skintones and textures, down to the courts floors and stadium layouts. But what is ugly, are the detail to players faces and overall authenticity! Players don't look like themselves and majority of the errors are in the eyes and nose details and sometimes the lips. But then you miss things like Tattoos and other cosmetics that make them stand out. And oddly enough, each year players are missing tats and facial details, mainly players who have been in the league 2 years or less. (Yeah I noticed it, D.Williams one year, Beasley Rose this year!)

And then we get to crowd details, while the crowd polygons are somewhat nice, you didn't get them at a smooth 60 frames, they are jagged and ugly compared to the smooth textured player models. Then the cheerleaders look like monsters, they are downright hideous. I know you can design better women. Hell Fight Night Round 3 is proof of that, and so is Def Jam Icon. Mascots look like cartoons, while the player details, coaches and refs look like real people. At least make it look like a costume with some flowing fur and stuff.

Also animations continue to kill this game, but since you guys said you have already been working on that for NBA Live 10. I won't beat that dead horse!

PRESENTATION

Controlling the replays with the RT is terrible! Remove that option and let them be control by the CPU, and react to real NBA moments. Use a better replay flash than the lame team logo.

Add a sideline reporter and a 3rd booth man with some insight! It's Next-Gen and I know you guys are capable.

Presentation details, crowd movement, reacting to court action and authentic stadium noise. Bring back the stadium PA announcer that would talk about stadium offers based off what city you played in, instead of him just talking about #23 assisted by Jones! I mean that get's old and dry, advertise through him during timeouts and foul plays.

Weekly or nightly wrap ups during Dynasty mode, let's get some real time NBA TV stuff on the game, keeping the Season fresh each week, instead of the annoying pop ups of your league news. Vocalize it during the wraps up, talking about salary caps and trades, etc.

I mean it's just little creative details like this that continue to plague this game. Because you have footplanting, and a great deal on other things, such at post moves, playcalling, etc. That are really solid and will just need tweaks.

But overall the game is good where it is, but it's also bad because of all that is missing. Sometimes a sound presentation, smooth animations and a few highlight features can make a game more entertaining. Keeping it fresh for those 30 year Dynasty's. lol

Please get rid of that achievement that is absolutely a dumb achievement. No one is that die hard! lol. It was in NCAA I know but hey don't put it in Live!

Either way I like Live 09 and continue to play to get my NBA fix. But please let me Love Live 10. By at least taking in consideration on what I'm saying!

On the outside looking in, from a consumer and buyers point of view since Bulls vs Lakers, Lakers vs Celtics, etc. You get the point!

CONTENT - ADDITIONS AND SUBTRACTIONS

One thing that needs to go, is the NBA Academy it's terrible and the seperate all-star weekend, it hasn't changed in years and needs to just be part of season mode, not a separate option.

Features - A Virtual NBA Store, which hold unlockable jersey's and shoes. Not to mention when later shoes and Jersey's are create via XBL and PSN, you can add them to the store.

A full practice mode in Dynasty mode is nice.

Keep the point system of completely upgrading your staff, that was a nice touch. Not to mention helps your team get better.

Bring back a ticker during games to show live scores. Get rid of the ESPN radio crap, it's always a day late and the news is old majority of the time, along with the pop up menus with SC videos are always old and late sometimes up to 4 days. Terrible addition, who wants late news! If we have XBL or PSN to feed through, then obviously we already got the news from the internet . Not trying to bust anyone's basketballz...but you know what I'm saying is true.

A real virtual draft system, even showing your signing recruits with there number 0 jerseys with the fake flashing camera etc. Give them real practice tryouts etc. Just ways to add content and build on it.

Other things that hurt that made 2k so strong, was the importing draft players from NCAA. I guarantee you, if that feature was available to Live and NCAA. Yours sales would triple! That was really a reason why a lot of people didn't get NCAA Basketball and Live both, they rather just have 1 since the option wasn't available. Add it and mark my words as becoming true.

Create a Player - I'll PM you on that, I don't want to go into too much detail on that.

Thanks for listening and more coming as I play about 20 more games tonight before bed.

[jaosming]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

I disagree on a few points


Visuals: What about the sweat? It makes the players look like they have some kind of disease half the time.

Presentation: The replays are still automatic, LT (for me) is just an option and I personally would rather keep that option if I want to see something that developed in that last play even though it isn't a spectacular NBA play. It's just easier to hit that instead of going into the full replay mode when it's for something small.


Content: The Academy imo is a fantastic feature, just marred by the bad rebounding mechanics and poor realization of when you burn someone with quickstrike moves without them engaging the lockdown mechanic first.

There is no reason to get rid of ASW either, it's still fun to play, but just because it hasn't changed doesn't mean it has to go. Same with Situation mode and Pick Em mode, they should really stay as well.

[Vince]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

With all due respect, how is the NBA academy a bad feature???

[wsu_gb23]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

what NBA Live is missing is animations, ball/rim/net physics.

[Behindshadows]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

With all due respect, how is the NBA academy a bad feature???

It's boring! I know it was created to help you learn moves and things like that. But it's boring and sometimes it was just downright not interesting to where people just overlooked it.

Now if they combine the NBA Academy with a full length Be A Pro Mode to where you create someone and have to go through these drills every once in a while, while playing street games and tournaments to try to get to the NBA. That would nice and I'd say keep it. But again it's my opinion, you don't have to agree with it. But I assure you, if there was a poll on who uses it, it was be so offset to the point they'd remove it.

I disagree on a few points


Visuals: What about the sweat? It makes the players look like they have some kind of disease half the time.

Presentation: The replays are still automatic, LT (for me) is just an option and I personally would rather keep that option if I want to see something that developed in that last play even though it isn't a spectacular NBA play. It's just easier to hit that instead of going into the full replay mode when it's for something small.


Content: The Academy imo is a fantastic feature, just marred by the bad rebounding mechanics and poor realization of when you burn someone with quickstrike moves without them engaging the lockdown mechanic first.

There is no reason to get rid of ASW either, it's still fun to play, but just because it hasn't changed doesn't mean it has to go. Same with Situation mode and Pick Em mode, they should really stay as well.

I agree with the sweat though, no need to remove it, but revamp it! People are sweating out their eye sockets lol. And sometimes they will already be drenched before the game even starts.

Why not make the players who are playing the hardest sweat more and sometimes through the clothes. And from the side of the face and forehead not the eyes.

I just think ASW is crap, only part I like is the 3 point contest, controls are too complicated on Dunk contest and sometimes you can't win no matter what.

As far as our disagreement to the replays, I'm sorry man it's to bland.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

#1 Is animations, some of the stuff they do on here is unnatural.

#2 would be presentation. They need sideline reporters and a 3rd man in the booth.

#3 The controls. Now I know Live has always preferred the easy control scheme with the cpu automatically doing everything for you. But to me they should give the user an option, to either use the basic control set or use the advanced control set where you can control everything YOURSELF and do stuff manually (like bank shots, bounce passes, etc)

#4 Yeah they need to umm do something about that sweat. Not get rid of it, but make it more realistic and natural. Take it out the eyes thats for sure.

[totalownership]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

Bring back a ticker during games to show live scores. Get rid of the ESPN radio crap, it's always a day late and the news is old majority of the time, along with the pop up menus with SC videos are always old and late sometimes up to 4 days. Terrible addition, who wants late news!

I really don't want the ticker there permanently while I'm playing. Maybe let it pop up from time to time during the game but don't make it permanent. Speaking of which, NOTHING on screen should be permanent. The score should change positions during the game. I don't know why developers don't care about burn-in on the consumer's TV. Static images are bad for EVERY TV (So all you guys that are about to say "I have LCD, no problem for me" need to do your research.)

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

Umm in order to get a burn in on a tv, that image would have to be on that screen continously for weeks at a time not moving or changing.

Because honestly there isn't a game that doesn't have at least something on there throughout the game. Whether it is a health bar, ammo bar or sports ticker.

[donkey33]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

Be nice if they had a half time show of some sort where they showed other game results (completed or midway through).

Obviously it'd be very nice to see highlights of those games but I doubt we'd see that. At least it would be covered at a time you're not playing.

The Academy just needs a purpose. During dynasty it's great as I like choosing who I want to work out and where during training camp.

Get rid of the ESPN radio and video feeds. I'll get all that info on the internet. I don't need it in game. Use the ESPN licence to improved the presentation of the game.

To follow on from that, we don't need real life results or feeds in the game. As I said, we all follow it elsewhere either via TV or internet. Make highlights, feeds, info relevant to your dynasty.

I never play ASW but keep it there. How about those cut scenes from Live 04 when someone was drafted, cut, traded, etc? Just make it involved. It's boring just being hit with screens of text and info all the time.

[totalownership]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

Umm in order to get a burn in on a tv, that image would have to be on that screen continously for weeks at a time not moving or changing.

Because honestly there isn't a game that doesn't have at least something on there throughout the game. Whether it is a health bar, ammo bar or sports ticker.

Ummm there isn't a AV message board where some guy isn't complaining that they have burn in on their sets from those same health bar, ammo bar , radar or HUDs. Also , depending on the quality of one's set it doesn't have to take weeks at a time for it to happen. Don't know who told you that but they were dead wrong.

[Behindshadows]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

Ummm there isn't a AV message board where some guy isn't complaining that they have burn in on their sets from those same health bar, ammo bar , radar or HUDs. Also , depending on the quality of one's set it doesn't have to take weeks at a time for it to happen. Don't know who told you that but they were dead wrong.

They must have a Vizio or an Orion or some knock off brand. I have LG's, Samsung's and a Panasonic and play games on all three. Never a burn issue.

Maybe the guys should stop pausing their games until next week and hoping it won't jack up something. Probably projection and not LCD.

[totalownership]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

They must have a Vizio or an Orion or some knock off brand. I have LG's, Samsung's and a Panasonic and play games on all three. Never a burn issue.

Maybe the guys should stop pausing their games until next week and hoping it won't jack up something. Probably projection and not LCD.

Well some I've read were cheap ones as I mentioned but I've also read where some Panny's have fallen victim. Also keep in mind LCD can also suffer burn in, even though people don't believe it can happen.

I have a Pioneer Elite Plasma and I put all the safety precautions on and haven't had a problem yet. It just irritates me that the developers aren't more conscious about their graphics.

[Behindshadows]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

Well some I've read were cheap ones as I mentioned but I've also read where some Panny's have fallen victim. Also keep in mind LCD can also suffer burn in, even though people don't believe it can happen.

I have a Pioneer Elite Plasma and I put all the safety precautions on and haven't had a problem yet. It just irritates me that the developers aren't more conscious about their graphics.

Honestly I think that is a dumb argument, when people make conscious decisions to play games on their television. Why should developers take in consideration to remove meters and icons, when they have been in video games since the colecovision and atari's.

Maybe you can blame Pioneer, Panasonic and other company's for overpricing tv's and then having them burn in the screen.

[totalownership]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

Honestly I think that is a dumb argument, when people make conscious decisions to play games on their television. Why should developers take in consideration to remove meters and icons, when they have been in video games since the colecovision and atari's.

Maybe you can blame Pioneer, Panasonic and other company's for overpricing tv's and then having them burn in the screen.

LOL , now thats a dumb argument but I'm sure you meant it to be that.
Ok for one thing the television was never designed for the torture videogames put them through. They just weren't designed with that in mind. Fortunately TV manufacturers are developing measures to combat what videogames AND network broadcasters seem to care less about and that is the preservation of your TV. Fortunately for me my TV is great at preventing that so I can use it at will without concern but not all TVs are created equal (Vizio).

But these sources should be more conscious of these things. Most network broadcasters have heard the outcry and have made significant changes to "bugs" they put on the screen but others have yet to make that responsible move.

But your comment about back in the days with atari gave me an idea I might be able to make some $$$ with . Sure they have been there since way back but remember also way back your parents telling you not to play long with it also. Some parents didn't let kids play at all for fear of the TV being messed up.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: What Live series does wrong and right!

I think NBA Live is very very close.

After playing it again, and watching playoff games, I feel like they do a very good job replicating the pace of an NBA game.

What needs to be enhance now is crispness and fluidity.

What I really love about NBA Live, is that I feel like I am in complete control of my player's movement at all times. What I now want to see is a smoother transition between defensive stance, charge, shot contest, rebound and steal animations...and more natural looking transitions between offensive moves.

I dont really care about how many animations are in the game.

To me, its more important that the animations in the game work properly and within the context of a basketball game, as opposed to just having a mass amount of animations, and having those animations create other gameplay problems.


As far as presentation goes. I dont want NBA Live to be too much like NBA2k. Both games offer very fine presentation, from different perspectives.

NBA2k tries to replicate a NBA on TNT broadcast, and they do it very very well.

NBA Live tries to replicate the feel of being inside an NBA arena. They do this very well also. The crowd starts out subdued, and builds throughout the game....their mood will fluctuate depending on how the game is unfolding, andwhen the 4th qtr roles around, they are up and rocking. If youve ever been to an NBA arena, thats exactly what it is like.

What I would like to see is more easily visible in game statistical outlays, and those little interactions that the players have with each other on court.

Gameplay wise, I want more coaching options. All we have right now is the option to assign tight or loose coverage, who to double, how much we want to adjust the fast break and crash the board slider. It feels a little bare bones.

Free throw shooting needs to be changed. Far too easy online and also off, although the control rumble and faster meter when you are on the road is a nice touch.

I love the control layout..dont change a thing. Like I said before, I always feel like my guy is doing what I want him to do. I rarely have a animation trigger on me that makes me say "Why did he do that?"

It has taken them a long time, but I think this series on the verge. I really hope they recognize it and dont give us superficial fluff dressed up as gameplay "enhancements"