Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

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  • blues rocker
    MVP
    • Sep 2007
    • 1921

    #1

    Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

    Warning to mods: I am going to compare 2k and Live here, but I am simply comparing to make my point and show what I'm talking about.

    I've been playing Live and there are some problems related to the passing. There is something simple that 2k does with their passing that makes the passing much smoother and it makes a ton of sense how 2k's passing system works. I'm actually very surprised Live still does not do this, because 2k has been doing it since at least 2k6.

    Here it is:

    1.) In 2k, when you pass to a player, that receiving player will automatically move a few steps in a direction in order to get better position to receive the ball. He kind of "steps out" and "comes to the ball." 2k's pass receivers have a certain automatic "awareness" of passing angles so that they will automatically get into a better passing angle to receive the ball.

    In Live, on the other hand, the receivers will just stand completely still and won't "come to the ball" or move to create the best passing angle. This results in the CPU getting tons of steals.

    2.) Another problem in Live - when a teammate is cutting in a certain direction, when you pass to him, he will stop cutting when he receives the ball. This completely defeats the purpose of passing to a cutting player. If a player is cutting to the hoop, you want him to keep cutting towards the hoop after he catches the pass, so that he can go to the hoop and score...if he stops his cut after catching the ball, the defenders just catch up to him and the scoring opportunity is ruined. As a default, the players should be programmed to continue running in that direction after they catch a pass while cutting. There is never a situation where you would want a player to stop cutting after catching the pass, so just make it automatic for him to continue running for at least 2 or 3 steps.


    3.) Do Icon Lead Passing (offball receiver control) like 2k. I like how 2k does their lead passing, because it is very quick. If you move the stick just slightly, the receiver will make a strong, fast cut in that direction. Live's "offball receiver control" has a similar purpose, but it is much slower to react and the offball player is too sluggish in his movements - he doesn't cut and move fast enough for it to really work. Players controlled by "offball receiver control" should move with more urgency and explosiveness. As of now they move like they just popped a few Valium.



    That is all for now, but I think it would be fairly simple to add these mechanics to Live.
    Last edited by blues rocker; 10-23-2009, 05:15 PM.
  • jahswill
    Rookie
    • Dec 2004
    • 625

    #2
    Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

    Great post!!!
    JahsWill

    Comment

    • ILLSmak
      MVP
      • Sep 2008
      • 2397

      #3
      Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

      I disagree.

      If anything, Live still needs some passes to be toned down. 2ks passing is out of this world lol. The idea of a lead pass is good, but it is hard to capture the mechanic in a video game.

      If you imagine that the players have an awareness of where the ball is and the ball is leading the player to the basket, that means, to me, that the player is following the ball. Except in a video game that would mean that he is unrealistically warping towards the ball. I think passes should result in imperfect catches.

      There is no such thing as an imperfect catch in either game (at least not enough to matter) and this happens ALL THE TIME in real basketball. Live has people stopping when someone is in front of them at certain points... where as in 2k, they would continue to lead, right?

      I want the ability to pressure control passes (like in football), the ability to throw bounce passes on demand. That would be a worthy addition.

      The way things are, since it's a video game, there will always be an interaction between the player and the thrown ball that is not realistic, you see what I mean? They need to add more possibilities. If someone bumps you while you are trying to catch the ball you shouldn't get some glitch catch (which happens in live) the ball should go to the ground or out of bounds.

      -Smak

      Comment

      • ehh
        Hall Of Fame
        • Mar 2003
        • 28962

        #4
        Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

        In 2K I like that you can control the guy you're passing to a head of time with the L-stick to make him come toward you, pop out, whatever. But as a whole passing in 2K is pretty poor, you can do whatever you want with very little repercussions. That's why assist numbers have always been absurd, even going back a few years. I like that passing is difficult in Live and once you get used to OBC you'll have no problems quickly creating your own passing angles. Plus it makes you play more realistic ball.

        Both games need way better analog passing logic. Even freestyle passing logic is pretty bad in Live. There will be times when I'm on the top of the key and I'll drive right and the defender guarding the man in the corner will sag in to help leaving a wide open shooter in the corner. I'll aim with the stick and do a regular pass to try and hit the guy in the corner and it'll whip it to some random dude on the other side of the court. That is very frustrating at times.

        It's funny, I just started playing online today and I'm destroying cheesers who try to double team constantly by using OBC and having a guy cut to the hoop. Not cheese at all, and it's great to have the guy go exactly where you want him to. So far I'm 2-0 with the Knicks, beat the Celtics and the Cavs on the road. This game is sooo much fun human vs human.
        "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

        "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

        Comment

        • ILLSmak
          MVP
          • Sep 2008
          • 2397

          #5
          Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

          Yeah, I just beat this dude who had super aggressive defense... and it got me at first, but all you gotta do is wait and see what they do and then use off ball.

          Best part is he started double teaming late and I got the game winner from the corner for three.

          -Smak

          Comment

          • mrprice33
            Just some guy
            • Jul 2003
            • 5986

            #6
            Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

            i disagree. live off ball control is one of the best things to happen in basketball games.

            Comment

            • jrich730
              Rookie
              • Jul 2008
              • 332

              #7
              Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

              the problem with passing in my eyes is that all the passes are line drives. i dont know how many times i have had a man wide open in the corner but the pass gets tipped when a pass with some type of arch would have got the job done perfectly.

              i do agree with op on the cutting passes and the playerr stops that is one of the problems with fastbreaks it seems like only big men catch passes in stride when u outlet to a guard they either stop or slow down and turn and catch the pass.

              Comment

              • blues rocker
                MVP
                • Sep 2007
                • 1921

                #8
                Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

                Originally posted by jrich730
                the problem with passing in my eyes is that all the passes are line drives. i dont know how many times i have had a man wide open in the corner but the pass gets tipped when a pass with some type of arch would have got the job done perfectly.
                Yes, I forgot to mention this in my original post, but this is another huge problem as well. All of Live's passes are line drives, but 2k has a variety of passes (high lobs, low bounce passes, etcs) so that the pass is right for the situation. 2k kind of chooses the right pass for you so you're not always throwing line drive passes right into the defenders. 2k will try to throw the passes over the defenders or angle them to avoid the defenders.

                There are times in Live when I have a guy open somewhere, but instead of making a high pass over the defense, my player will pass straight into the defender and it will get stolen or tipped.

                2k's passes are kind of "auto smart" in that when you pass, the game chooses the right type of pass for the situation in order to avoid the defenders as much as possible.

                Comment

                • blues rocker
                  MVP
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 1921

                  #9
                  Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

                  Originally posted by mrprice33
                  i disagree. live off ball control is one of the best things to happen in basketball games.
                  off ball receiver control is a great concept, but the off ball player just moves too slowly for it to really work. He just sluggishly jogs around. Also, if you are controlling the offball player and you want to make him cut to the hoop, he will stop cutting as soon as you throw the pass (much like the CPU players stop cutting like I mentioned in my original post). He should not stop moving when you throw the pass. If you are moving the offball guy in a direction, and you pass to him, he should keep moving in that direction for a few steps as he catches the ball (similar to 2k).

                  Comment

                  • blues rocker
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2007
                    • 1921

                    #10
                    Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

                    Originally posted by ehh
                    In 2K I like that you can control the guy you're passing to a head of time with the L-stick to make him come toward you, pop out, whatever. But as a whole passing in 2K is pretty poor, you can do whatever you want with very little repercussions. That's why assist numbers have always been absurd, even going back a few years. I like that passing is difficult in Live and once you get used to OBC you'll have no problems quickly creating your own passing angles. Plus it makes you play more realistic ball.
                    It is not 2k's passing that is poor, it is 2k's pass defense AI that is poor. 2k's passing is great, but the AI defenders have such low awareness that they allow passes to go right over them and in front of them without tipping them. 2k just needs to improve the AI of the defenders so they are more aware of passing lanes and will try to tip and/or steal the pass if they are in position to do so. As of now, they rarely try to tip the pass if it is near them.

                    Comment

                    • Jackdog
                      Wolverine Soldier
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 7719

                      #11
                      Re: Simple fixes to the passing system that would drastically improve the game.

                      http://www.operationsports.com/forum...wish-list.html

                      Have at it there.
                      NFL:Packers
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                      F-1: Ferrari.

                      It's been a while OS. Hope all are doing well!

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