Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Vision Developer Diary

[Pared]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Thanks Pared, was getting ready to chime in on this. I see what you're saying Czar and I pointed it out to the dev team.

Yes, Hoos and I had a looooooong discussion as to what a player should be capable of out of the Euro., including what type of shot should be possible.

Perhaps me knowing that and others not caused me to not understand what was being said.

I don't think I made any assumptions but I'm sorry if my comments came off that way. Never the intent.

[Pared]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Same. I just think it looks awkward because you don't see too many guys shooting like that off the Euro Step.

I just spent a couple minutes in my cube doing the Euro Step and shooting an imaginary ball like that. Yeah it felt awkward.

LMAO At community day the team must have felt we were nuts. It's the only way to explain it to someone else and get a full grasp as to if something is possible or not.

We were doing euro's and shots in the EA offices...

[KG]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

LMAO At community day the team must have felt we were nuts. It's the only way to explain it to someone else and get a full grasp as to if something is possible or not.

We were doing euro's and shots in the EA offices...

Yeah man, sometimes you need to just do it literally. I remember a Madden thread about cutting off the inside foot which is something that just comes naturally to most but is probably overlooked by many. Better believe I was in my cube running 2yd out patterns.

[rockchisler]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I don't see where you're getting all that, but I'll just leave it there. Feel free to hit me up because we've had discussions in the past via PM. I don't see where I've made assumptions but I'm always willing to listen, if you're willing to explain your thoughts.

As for what you mentioned, I could go on with any game released how such and such didn't look right. When you start doing that, you might as well get a video channel and call yourself Apex. And I'm not saying this to justify or **** on your point - I've already described and showed video why I think it's possible and how two of us asked for that shot to change anyway. So we're probably more in agreement than you think, but in no way is that shot "not possible because of his footing."

And again, I'm "invested" in basketball gaming. My ideas are in more games than you think. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean all of a sudden I have an attachment to something. People said the same exact thing when I went to EA early in '08 and said I liked the base of what they had. It's the same exact thing here. People tried to do it then and it makes no difference: A good game, is a good game.

In fact, I'd bet guys from the trip are reluctant to even comment because they KNOW this will happen.

I just expect guys to give both games the "fine-toothed comb" approach equally. If you're going to gloss over something in one game, make sure you do it for others as well.



C'mon, you would be playing Elite regardless.

If both games are great Im playing, I need my bball fix. Haha

[Sovartus]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Breathe gentleman breathe!

There are couple of things you guys are not taking into consideration. Number one, is the fact that there are a lot of animations that were not added into the game just yet. Number two, the user is in control of which hand the ball is in and so therefore; if the user was dribbling with his right hand and he decides to go left, the left stick controls his feet and so it's going to respond. If it looks awkward that's the users fault not the game's. I did noticed when I was using the controls that when I tried to make an awkward movement like that the player didn't respond as well. I may be the only one who noticed this, but it made me want to correct those awkward movements myself.

I really think it's too early for everyone to get their panties in a wad. There were a ton of things that were missing out of the build that we played, but yet the control scheme felt fantastic. Remember, these guys can now do in a couple of minutes the things that would generally take hours to do. I'm sure they will have plenty of time in 2 1/2 months to get all of those little bitty things worked out.

[23]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

23,

[FONT=Georgia]I'm actually a little disappointed in your comments. Most of what you're saying is coming across to me as you just being negative. Let me clarify what I mean when I say the inability of foul. Other then the intentional foul button which typically will end up in you pressing the big button in the middle and bringing up your friends list or something, there is no way to truly foul a person. When someone's driving to the lane I want to be able to put the hammer on them. If someone standing under the basket I want to be able to wrap them up or hack them.

Wasn't being negative at all, I wanted to know what you meant by that as I was trying to tell TK, because Live 10 had a foul issue and it was completely jaded to benefit the CPU. I remember being able to get the CPU in foul trouble in Live 09, being able to take charges, etc.. but not in this game, but thanks for expounding on that, but again I wasnt being negative towards you.

I do agree you should be able to foul if you want to, but as it stands you foul when the CPU wants to make you foul and that happens ALOT.


I[QUOTE] really don't think the ratings had has much to do with it as you are claiming.

We'll brotha I challenge you to go into Live 10 and tweak those ratings and you tell me if im lying. If you don't think Derek Fisher having an 85 defensive recovery rating didnt have much to do with what was going on then I dont know what else to say. Most of those ratings were over-powered.

[QUOTE]Novell spoke of two man animations and he's right. That's what the man does for a living so I'm sure that he knows what he's talking. While I was in EA Canada I was able to see the things that he's talking about as far as two man animations are concerned.[QUOTE]

You know what, im not questioning Novell about the canned sequences because they were definitely there causing problems, but to completely dismiss the ratings contribution to the suction and other issues is completely wrong, especially until you see for yourself. It had alot to do with alot of things, if not they wouldnt have so many of them, nor would they have told us they removed the ones that seemed irrelevant at the beginning of last year.

This is one of the things that seriously plagues the other game. In order for the action to look right the game automatically puts you in animation sequences that are designed for two players. That's why your players get sucked into these animation sequences and you lose control until the animation sequence plays out. I could be wrong but, ratings may determine what animation sequences you get sucked into however; you still have absolutely no control over your character into the sequence is done.

I think you ought to take a look at those ratings and the dna sliders to really look into how they tie into the system. Ask Playmakers, he's been doing this crap since Live came over to this gen.


As far shooting is concerned the new shooting mechanic in the game is totally different than what you're probably used to. It felt very natural and I did feel as though I had complete control over whether or not I make a shot. There are other factors involved however because you can just flick the stick in a particular direction and expect to make a shot every time. I think they've done a very good job of trying to replicate the feeling of shooting as if it were real life.

Thats fine, they now have a refined shot stick, but thats not my issue at all. using the logic that anything before this was just luck is what I disagree with, but again thats me.

I can fully respect your right to be skeptical or even negative about the new NBA elite series but attacking me is probably not in your best intellectual interest. Now, is there any part of my comment that you need further clarification on?

Im not exactly sure why you would think I have some kind of interest to attack you as much as you and I have spoken to eachother. For all I know that was a piece of a quote that was used and Im asking you what it was all about because of the current foul situation in Live 10, its unbalanced and completely gives the CPU a pass on fouls that it gives you.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

As for what you mentioned, I could go on with any game released how such and such didn't look right. When you start doing that, you might as well get a video channel and call yourself Apex. And I'm not saying this to justify or **** on your point - I've already described and showed video why I think it's possible and how two of us asked for that shot to change anyway. So we're probably more in agreement than you think, but in no way is that shot "not possible because of his footing."


In fact, I'd bet guys from the trip are reluctant to even comment because they KNOW this will happen.

I just expect guys to give both games the "fine-toothed comb" approach equally. If you're going to gloss over something in one game, make sure you do it for others as well.

Haha see. I got you. But all of my comments on the video are based on what they have been saying. They have changed the game, real time physics, etc I don't think it was a fine tooth comb job on what I pointed out at all. I just want to get an idea for what we can reasonably be expected from this system. To say you have something revolutionary is a big statement. All my comments on the video I feel are in relation to the expectations they created.

I feel this is a world of diffenence betwen what I said and your man apex. I find it interesting that Hockey Dude brought up apex in that interview when he thew the competition under the buss.

I have never been a lets see if we can tear this game down guy. My complaints are only concerning how this relates to gameplay. An issue I brought up earlier is if they game will look like basketball (human players moving) or will that get sacrificed
for control which may be great for some but not so great for others.

I am hardly interested in getting into a you said this about live but didn't say this about 2k battle with anyone on here that is a hopeless race. My thing is really how does this new system effect the gameplay as far as realism goes.

When you say real time physics I have a different expectation level. When you say revolution I raise my expectations accordingly.

But again you community day guys are holding all the cards man. I'm just like everybody else I have no idea what all you have seen and what all you experienced while up there. So these things may seem trivial to you guys.

[Da_Czar]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Breathe gentleman breathe!

.[/FONT]

I really think it's too early for everyone to get their panties in a wad. There were a ton of things that were missing out of the build that we played, but yet the control scheme felt fantastic. Remember, these guys can now do in a couple of minutes the things that would generally take hours to do. I'm sure they will have plenty of time in 2 1/2 months to get all of those little bitty things worked out.

Sov nice post as usual one point i think people lose fact of and especially you guys who may have seen the game is that this is a message board. We love hoops they released a video and darn it we want to get our discussion on. So I agree if your just a basher to be bashing hold off or go elsewhere. But for the diehards I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing what we see or what we know. Which is of course little to none right now...haha

So I don't consider it so much a panties in a wad situation. I find that a bit looking down the nose. We love hoops. we have a video dam it lets get to discussin... Tongue in cheek of course but I'm sure you get my point !

@ Pared you Know its going to happen as soon as the other squad releases ANYTHING... ahh man they didn't fix this so I get that part.

[Gmoney2002]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

And so it begins again...

I saw some good and some bad.
It's still too early to formulate any sort of prognosis on this game based on that video.

[Pared]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I don't know why but the back and forth tires me.

I honestly can't grasp why guys can't wait until something is final. And that's my bad, as not everyone thinks that way.

I just wish we had this much involvement in playing these games online as we did here on the forums. I'd rather be talking to you guys about that epic game we played than this move isn't physically possible.

[DaveDQ]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Is it me or does EA sports always pay out on there own product from last year to further hype the incoming game ???

i could swear i've heard all this before...

This bugged me with Fight Night 4 and how they would go back and say..."In Fight Night 3"...and list a bunch of negatives. The Madden team recently did it but EA isn't alone on this. 2k Sports had an entire trailer dedicated to MLB 2K9 and 2K10 comparisons.

It's a bunch of hype because if you go back to 2009 releases, all the developers were touting their games as "the most improve blah blah blah."

[bigsmallwood]

I think that it is way too early for everybody to be going in on each other over a game that is not close to being finished. The video is an early build and in NO way reflective of the final product.

While I do believe we should analyze what we are seeing, we should hold back on some of the so-called constructive criticism until the game is further along or at least until we see a video that is further along. At the end of the day we all want and are invested in great basketball gaming.

[Drocks]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

This bugged me with Fight Night 4 and how they would go back and say..."In Fight Night 3"...and list a bunch of negatives. The Madden team recently did it but EA isn't alone on this. 2k Sports had an entire trailer dedicated to MLB 2K9 and 2K10 comparisons.

It's a bunch of hype because if you go back to 2009 releases, all the developers were touting their games as "the most improve blah blah blah."

Marketing brah, everybody in almost every industry does it. They improve on V1 of a product or edition, they crap on V1 and all its negatives and talk about how great V2 is. Then when they bust out V3, they crap on V2 and hype up V3. That is what our society is built on. The sports gaming world is no different than anyone else. Part of it is they want to show you that they improved on specific negatives from the previous version, but they're not gonna sit there and tell you 'while we fixed this, this other piece still sucks'. They're not gonna mention that until they fix it in a version, or at least THINK they fixed it.

[HoosierDaddy]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

I just felt the need to address some of the complaints this video has been receiving. Many of the criticisms are based on a few things, so let me break it down.

1) EA comparing Elite to Live 10. Seriously? Don't all companies do this? It's not about marketing totally, it's about taking a foundation and building upon it. Regardless of what people may have said about this game, they are not completely re-building this game again. They made some drastic changes to the game, and trust me, they are for the better. The rest of the game contains features that already had a solid foundation and either improving or adding to them.

2) Graphics - You will be able to clearly see the difference in graphics when the time is right. This video was an early build that was used to showcase dribbling and player movement, nothing else. I can honestly say, having seen the game, the graphics have greatly improved overall. You'll have to take my word on this for the time being.

3) Control - I can't stress enough how much control you will have this year. I said in my blog last week, that it will be difficult to play any other game after getting your hands on the controller. Some of you think that's EA hype or them forcing us to preach that to you, but trust me once you play it, you'll understand my reasoning. Now, as previously mentioned in this thread, some of you have pointed out the awkward movements between euro steps and shot attempts, for example. These are all things that were pointed out to the EA dev team while we were there. Nothing has been "fine-tuned" or finalized about any of this. The beauty in all of this was our ability to see the game early and provide feedback/input about things that need to be altered or changed. Let's not forget also that due to this early build, the developers also haven't fully implemented their ideas into this build that the video was based on.

4) Jennings shooting with the right hand - The EA team obviously is aware of this and the only reason the video was publicized was to show the player movement and dribbling capabilities. I'm sure if they could take it back, they may have showcased a different player or at least changed the shooting hand. Bottom line is, you guys are looking too deep into such an early build, but on the other hand, probably something EA should've thought about prior to release. Obviously due to the early build, player signature shots and such weren't shown, either.

Overall, just look at the video for what it is and SEE the potential. Don't look at the negatives and only concentrate on them. Honestly, the video displayed many improvements over last year's title and I'm sure you guys will be impressed as the title gets closer to launch.

[rockchisler]

Re: NBA Elite 11 Video: Exclusive Debut Vision Developer Diary

Hack a shaq button is a necessity