Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

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  • jordankobewade7
    Rookie
    • Jun 2009
    • 139

    #61
    Originally posted by ParisB
    It will probably be impossible to program it completely accurate, since I think it depends a lot on the player(s) too. Like you said, the fact that there are 3 defenders in the vicinity doesn't necessarily make it a tougher shot. Also, what if it's Adam Morrison as opposed to a Tony Allen? There's probably also a "fear" rating that players have, lol. I'm not an NBA player, but if I came off a screen and the defender decided to chase me around it, I might be a little scared to pop the shot if I knew it was a taller defender with a reputation of being a good one too. On top of that, a Kobe leaner away from the defender isn't that much harder for him, where as a Derek Fisher needs to be stepping into his shot in rhythm to sink it, even if a defender is right there. I would also think a close out from a shorter player shouldn't have the same effect as a Dwight Howard charging at you whereas you might have it in your mind that "oh oh, here he comes, let me get the shot up quicker".

    Where do we draw the line though? Should a Shane Battier make your shot harder compared to a Luke Walton? What if Luke Walton was 2 feet away and Battier was 5 feet away? Defenders have different athletic and defensive abilities. Which shot is tougher from the above scenarios?

    It would be hard to draw the line between categorizing a contested shot as simply a defender in the vicinity, the quantity of defenders, and the quality of defenders, and add the offensive player's ability/confidence into the equation.

    Guys like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, don't get affected much by shooting in traffic or even with a hand in their face (unless it's a clogged lane and they run into a brick wall and have to throw it up). I'm a Lakers fan and it's pretty common for Kobe to sink a shot with a palm directly in his face. These guys shoot basketballs for a living and don't even need to see the basket. Personally I don't think it affects Kobe if Raja Bell is in his grill and if somebody else is within 2 feet of him. He shoots off double teams basically every game.

    Of course, an open shot is a higher percentage, but how much harder completely depends on the player and situation.

    I don't want it to be impossible to shoot when there's a defender in the vicinity, because what we see as an "open" shot on TV while watching the NBA is in fact a contested shot most of the time with the defender's hand not being too far from the ball. You see Ray Allen or Stephen Curry curl off a screen and pop a 3 effortlessly and they look open, but in reality if you watch it in slow motion the screen allows them "just enough" separation to get the shot off.

    So it's hard to say.
    Umm, I was skimming through the comments and I noticed how u put lebron in there with kobe and wade as a good jumpshooter...lebron is not a good jumpshooter...he can make jumpshots,and maybe even get hot,but his bread and butter his whole career has been going to the basket.period. he's great around the basket besides the obvious(dunking)he can now finish with finesse more consistantly and successfully alter his shot and make it,not as good as wade ore kobe but pretty good still.
    Point is,he is not on the level of kobe or wade in terms of making jumpers with a hand in his face consistantly. Even wade is a step down from kobe..hell,even jordan doesn't make shots like kobe does...that's obviously because he chose specifically not to and kobe seems to prefer to,or is put in low shot clock situations and is forced to more often.
    So in a few words,kobe is the benchmark for this attribute,idk what u would call it,difficult shot,or contested shot as in yrs past.quite simply the defense doesn't matter.
    On that same token,sometimes a player is just plain hot,and is hitting everything he throws up,so even for players who normally would never make a certain shot,might make it simply because ANY nba player can get hot...look at dragic when he put away the spurs this yr..so that has to be accounted for also.

    And one last thing,LEBRON CANNOT SHOOT JUMPERS WITH A HAND IN HIS FACE CONSISTANTLY FROM DISTANCE UNLESS HE'S HOT...he can barely make them when he's not,and he definetly has a better 3pt shot than midrange,which is unfortunate. Please ea,don't make lebron on kobes level shooting contested jumpers just cuz he's lebron. And I'm not doubting he can do this,but in the control layout pix lebrons chin is above the rim...he doesn't do this in games,so he shouldn't be doing this in "the" game...thx

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    • jordankobewade7
      Rookie
      • Jun 2009
      • 139

      #62
      And btw,I love lebron,I think he's great for the game...but we gotta keep it real don't we?or um...SIM

      Comment

      • ataman5
        MVP
        • Jun 2007
        • 2620

        #63
        Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

        Welcome aboard, appreciated with all the infos you get here!

        And i'm happy to back onboard as well; things looking real good for now.

        Comment

        • Hulkules
          Rookie
          • Nov 2009
          • 100

          #64
          Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

          Originally posted by rEAnimator
          For me that fear factor you talk about should be applied to you, the guy holding the controller, not to the virtual player on the court.

          If we do our jobs right, and you're controlling the dribbler while a tall, fast, strong defensive player is chasing you, you should feel that fear that you're going to get blocked and that fear should make it that little bit harder to pull off the perfect shot.

          Believe me, it's real. I've felt it already. The pressure of the game winning three makes it that much harder to execute the controls and that makes the game so much more fun to play than ever before.
          Honestly, I just want strategy to play a roll. I want a superstar player, if double teamed, to pass the to the open man because if they shoot, it would be a much harder shot than (a) the open player and (b) than a single coverage contest.

          Proximity has to play a role especially if 2 or more guarding you because if a defender is bodying up on you, not necessarily contesting the shot, it would be extremely difficult to make. More difficult than single coverage contest.

          Originally posted by ParisB
          Guys like Kobe, Lebron, Wade, don't get affected much by shooting in traffic or even with a hand in their face (unless it's a clogged lane and they run into a brick wall and have to throw it up). I'm a Lakers fan and it's pretty common for Kobe to sink a shot with a palm directly in his face. These guys shoot basketballs for a living and don't even need to see the basket. Personally I don't think it affects Kobe if Raja Bell is in his grill and if somebody else is within 2 feet of him. He shoots off double teams basically every game.
          As for Kobe shooting against double teams the result of that showed in Game 7 NBA Finals, he clearly should have been passing out of the double but continued to take very tough shots being closely guarded by 2 defenders. Kobe gets most of his points from single coverage and pick and role, if he shot over double teams all game he would be sitting on the bench. Not good basketball.

          Im not a numbers man but maybe globally lower all percentages for contested shots by 10 percent against double teams and shots in a crowd. That way Kobe is still at the top of the list and is still able to make one of these shots and not at a high clip, otherwise why would you bother passing the ball.

          Ultimately there has to be punishment for taking these bad shots when being closely guarded on double teams and in crowded situations.

          Comment

          • StriderNo9
            Pro
            • Mar 2003
            • 673

            #65
            Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

            Hey guys so far so good, the game looks like you are giving it the MVP treatment.

            My question goes to layups vs dunks, will we be able to choose which we do or will it depend on the distant we are from the ring and who we are controlling?

            For example if I am Kobe can I choose to lay it in, or because Kobe is a dunker only dunk when in the lain?

            I would like to control which I do. Thanks fellas.

            Comment

            • loadleft
              Rookie
              • Oct 2005
              • 284

              #66
              Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

              Originally posted by rEAnimator
              That's a good question and since this part of the game hasn't been locked down yet I'd like to hear what you guys think.

              If a guy is in front of you with his hand in your face that should definitely make the shot harder. No question. That is obvious.

              If there are two two guys in front of you how much of a difference does that make?

              What if one is in front and one is behind?

              What if there is a guy in front of you, a guy to your left but you are fading to the right? Does the guy to the left influence the difficulty of the shot, or is the fact that you are fading away from him take care of the difficulty he would introduce?

              We'll definitely make contested shot more difficult. As it gets more complicated than that we'll have to play around with different options and see what feels right. But I'm curious what you think.
              In my opinion, the answer to your question is multiple defenders, even one not in position to directly challenge the shot, still affect it to some degree. With defense it's basically impossible to actually effect a shot or stop a person from scoring unless you block it. However one can affect it by taking away options.

              If a defender on the left causes you to fade right he's taken the left option away AND by taking that option away he's made it easier for the defender that is directly in front of you to challenge your shot because he now only has to defend you straight ahead and to the right (in terms of the shot direction).

              In my opinion this can be handled from a programming perspective by not necessarily counting the left defender as challenger but more of a boost to the the front defender because it's now slightly easier to defend the shooter and the more options taken away from the shooter the easier it becomes for the front defender, or anyone in position to block the shot, to do so.

              Comment

              • Earl1963
                MVP
                • Aug 2003
                • 1985

                #67
                Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                You guys left the atmosphere alone right? I felt the crowd was the best I ever heard in any sport, and I loved the fact you could change it from reg season to championship.
                Megatron

                Comment

                • brs2305
                  Rookie
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 241

                  #68
                  Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                  Hey and welcome Geoff and Fraser! Glad to see having some Elite-guys on the board once again. It had been great talking to Mike and Steph last year and I see you are already doing a great job answering questions and interacting with us. Hope you guys will have a great time at OS.
                  Basketball Champions League Roster http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ns-league.html

                  Comment

                  • gmix411
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 77

                    #69
                    Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                    I already asked this in the q&a thread but I would really like to know if mid-air collisions are better in elite 11 because of the real-time physics?

                    Comment

                    • ParisB
                      MVP
                      • Jan 2010
                      • 1699

                      #70
                      Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                      Originally posted by loadleft
                      In my opinion, the answer to your question is multiple defenders, even one not in position to directly challenge the shot, still affect it to some degree. With defense it's basically impossible to actually effect a shot or stop a person from scoring unless you block it. However one can affect it by taking away options.

                      If a defender on the left causes you to fade right he's taken the left option away AND by taking that option away he's made it easier for the defender that is directly in front of you to challenge your shot because he now only has to defend you straight ahead and to the right (in terms of the shot direction).

                      In my opinion this can be handled from a programming perspective by not necessarily counting the left defender as challenger but more of a boost to the the front defender because it's now slightly easier to defend the shooter and the more options taken away from the shooter the easier it becomes for the front defender, or anyone in position to block the shot, to do so.
                      Good idea!

                      I just don't think a Steve Nash should have an effect on a Kobe draining it in his face, like he does all day every day.

                      Comment

                      • Live Boii
                        Banned
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 127

                        #71
                        Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                        Originally posted by gmix411
                        I already asked this in the q&a thread but I would really like to know if mid-air collisions are better in elite 11 because of the real-time physics?
                        i was told in the physics thread that there will be dunkons. and you get different results each time. hope that helps

                        Comment

                        • rockchisler
                          All Star
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 8290

                          #72
                          Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                          Originally posted by str8artist
                          Welcome to the OS team. Hope your skin is thick.....Enjoy fellas
                          This
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                          Follow me on www.Twitter.com/Rockchisler

                          Just type [ SPOILER ] and [ / SPOILER ], without any spaces.

                          ROOKIE KILLER

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                          • NoTiCe_O
                            Pro
                            • May 2009
                            • 969

                            #73
                            Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                            Did you guys change the rims sounds for dunks and misses?

                            They sound nothing like real life and more like an arcade game, if those sounds were as good as 2k's tht would be a little thjing tht improves the game alot in my perspective.
                            Twitter - @OtistheOriginal

                            Comment

                            • gmix411
                              Rookie
                              • Jul 2008
                              • 77

                              #74
                              Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                              Originally posted by Live Boii
                              i was told in the physics thread that there will be dunkons. and you get different results each time. hope that helps
                              Thanks for the reply. Does that include when both players are in the air? We've seen Durant dunk on Jennings when Jennings doesn't jump. I wanna know what happens if Jennings jumps to try and block the shot.

                              Comment

                              • HoosierDaddy
                                Pro
                                • Jul 2005
                                • 863

                                #75
                                Re: Please Welcome Two Members of the NBA Elite 11 Team To Our OS Family

                                Originally posted by NoTiCe_O
                                Did you guys change the rims sounds for dunks and misses?

                                They sound nothing like real life and more like an arcade game, if those sounds were as good as 2k's tht would be a little thjing tht improves the game alot in my perspective.
                                This was discussed.

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