What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

[bls]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

clear path fouls were implemented at the community's request.

also the fact that basketball knowledge is needed doesn't help. because that has always been the case with these games. no with the implementation of skilled based gameplay it gives somebody who puts in time with the game a clear advantage than somebody who doesn't.

this adds depth and replay value to the game.

So if someone decides to put Kobe at the PG spot and I'm using the Hornets and Paul what type of advantage do I really have??????? Please explain this to me.

[Jano]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

This is the Elite forum so I'm not going to rattle off all the cheats and exploits used by the FN4 community to get wins, what I will say is that skill based gameplay MUST work within the spirit of the game.

In other words, stick skills should not allow you to accomplish game objectives through methods that are fundamentally wrong within the nature of the sport, on any kind of consistent basis.

If this can be achieved by the development team, then we as the gaming community can live with it when we encounter someone who has better stick skills than we do, and can chalk it up as "They were better than me, and that's why I lost."

At this point, without a demo, I don't know if this will be the case. We'll have to just wait and see.

MrMars

This is what I was getting at in my post. I want these games to get to a point where I can lose and be able to say "he was just better then me."

There a lot of times when I'm playing Live or 2K that I'll lose and its not because the guy is more skilled its just that he's better at using exploits.

And its like I always say the more skill you expect out of a player the more things like fundamentals matter. That is as long as the stick skills work with respect to the fundamentals of basketball like you said.

I feel that the way you stop cheesing is by continuing to increase the intelligence of the AI and by forcing the user to be more responsible for what happens on the court.

I feel for the longest dev teams have been doing pretty well in the AI deparment but they still have room to improve on the player responsibility part.

[MrMars]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

Now that I think about it, I posted a question for the dev's that are online here about how the AI was going to reflect the difference in difficulty levels for offline games against the CPU. My feeling is they are going to take a short cut by boosting CPU attributes and weakening Human player attributes. This, by the way, is how they do it in NHL 10, or at least it feels that way.

If this is the approach that is taken, and i hope it isn't, It might be too much to ask that stick skills be tuned with fundamentals of the sport in place. Since this skill based gameplay is the first major feature they rolled out they may want to have this feature accentuated to insure that players with stick skills but questionable Basketball IQ can feel that the skill they have are actually a difference maker.

MrMars

[carnalnirvana]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

i still faIL TO SEE how stick skills matter. if we were doing a quarter circle while holding b and x to hit a three then yes skills might matter.

its still the click and flick of a button. if i need skill to call a pick and go around it to create a mismatch with your PF than this game is not for me anymore...

and if by stick skills they mean dribbling, then tell me now that an iso with LBJ will turn into a dancing contest until he breaks my ankles with his combo dribbles how is this basketball....

how can i doninate playoff teams with the nets, how does the stick skills work in rebounding, on defense, etc.... i'll be listening because i need to hear how this is going to work....

[Live Boii]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

skill based games r the future of what sports games should focus on.so far imo the only sports game to have it is fight night round 4.(every other sports seem to have way too many canned animations and sucked in 1 on 1 cpu determination)
fortunate for EA they have made the first move towards a great competitive tool to encourage a filter for more user skill determination of how a game is played and the outcome.

i give props where props is due and fight night deserve it, they have the best skilled base sports game to date the physics and skilled base gameplay is a great filter to separate the better player

THIS^^^^^^

[bls]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

i still faIL TO SEE how stick skills matter. if we were doing a quarter circle while holding b and x to hit a three then yes skills might matter.

its still the click and flick of a button. if i need skill to call a pick and go around it to create a mismatch with your PF than this game is not for me anymore...

and if by stick skills they mean dribbling, then tell me now that an iso with LBJ will turn into a dancing contest until he breaks my ankles with his combo dribbles how is this basketball....

how can i doninate playoff teams with the nets, how does the stick skills work in rebounding, on defense, etc.... i'll be listening because i need to hear how this is going to work....

Co-signing

[Live Boii]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

So if someone decides to put Kobe at the PG spot and I'm using the Hornets and Paul what type of advantage do I really have??????? Please explain this to me.

that means you need to fix your matchups. i would leave it as is because although kobe is bigger paul is to quick for kobe to guard.

take a cheese and flip it. if you cant keep it moving.

[bls]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

that means you need to fix your matchups. i would leave it as is because although kobe is bigger paul is to quick for kobe to guard.

take a cheese and flip it. if you cant keep it moving.

The sad part about this response is you actuAlly believe it, so sad.

[MrMars]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

This is a basketball game, so when I look at the areas where stick skills can have considerable impact I can think of one-on-one dribble moves, attacking the basket, user controlled defensive positioning and lastly, shooting with the new mechanic. One could also argue that Pick and Roll controls require a certain level of skill with the sticks.
<o></o>
Thus, if I am playing someone who has better stick skills than I do, and I keep getting beat off the dribble by skill based freestyle moves and ankle breakers, or my inability to penetrate or beat my opponent off the dribble then it’s up to me to make a “Basketball” adjustment through the interface provided. (ie. Change matchups, double team, change defenses, bring off-ball help, etc…)
<o></o>
If the interface does not have a viable basketball solution that can be employed to counter-act someone trying to use only superior stick skills to overcompensate for a lack of fundamental basketball knowledge, then this game should not be called “Elite” but simply “NBA Jam 5 on 5”
<o></o>
This is what I was saying in my previous post. I looked through the Controls post for comments on this by any of the dev’s that have been posting, the consensus is that these are issues that will be and have considered when fine tuning the ease to which basketball skills can be executed in various situations. I must admit to being a bit skeptical, (I have played EA Sports games for a long time.) as EA games frequently give the user the ability to overcome sport related strategic obstacles with some over the top skill based executions, and contrarily, utilize attribute boosts to create artificial competitive environments when playing the CPU.
<o></o>
This is why I fully expect that this will be a cheese fest in the beginning, as the superior stick skill crowd find ways to take advantage of the skill based components of this game. It will then be countered with a patch that stem the tide a little bit, but probably affect ( in a negative way) other elements of the game that were working fine previously.
<o></o>
Ultimately it will be fun with a controlled group of users committed to playing in the spirit of the game, but wait, isn’t that all the sports games now?
<o></o>
MrMars

[ILLSmak]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

The sad part about this response is you actuAlly believe it, so sad.

It's not entirely wrong...

I don't think that CP can score on a good Kobe, but Kobe can't score on a good Paul, either. Putting Kobe at the PG is stupid.

My favorite person to play D with in Live was Iverson because even though he was short, he can close gaps and he is 'resistant' to the force field... as is Paul. A lot of things in Live are related to body position opposed to height (cept for rebounding... ) so as long as you can get to the spot (something Paul does really well) and be directly in front of Kobe or bump him as he tries to dunk, there's no way he can individually break down Paul.

And if you want to do that BS running to the corners and shooting, I guess Paul is quicker so he would have an advantage.

-Smak

[ParisB]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

It's not entirely wrong...

I don't think that CP can score on a good Kobe, but Kobe can't score on a good Paul, either. Putting Kobe at the PG is stupid.

My favorite person to play D with in Live was Iverson because even though he was short, he can close gaps and he is 'resistant' to the force field... as is Paul. A lot of things in Live are related to body position opposed to height (cept for rebounding... ) so as long as you can get to the spot (something Paul does really well) and be directly in front of Kobe or bump him as he tries to dunk, there's no way he can individually break down Paul.

And if you want to do that BS running to the corners and shooting, I guess Paul is quicker so he would have an advantage.

-Smak

are you talking about real life or in Live? Because in real life, the last thing the Hornets would want to see is Kobe with Paul guarding him. Talk about a shark smelling blood.

[bls]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

It's not entirely wrong...

I don't think that CP can score on a good Kobe, but Kobe can't score on a good Paul, either. Putting Kobe at the PG is stupid.

My favorite person to play D with in Live was Iverson because even though he was short, he can close gaps and he is 'resistant' to the force field... as is Paul. A lot of things in Live are related to body position opposed to height (cept for rebounding... ) so as long as you can get to the spot (something Paul does really well) and be directly in front of Kobe or bump him as he tries to dunk, there's no way he can individually break down Paul.

And if you want to do that BS running to the corners and shooting, I guess Paul is quicker so he would have an advantage.

-Smak

But that's not realistic if were talking basketball sim. Did you ever see Doc Rivers put Rondo on Kobe in the finals??????????????????????????????

That's a MISMATCH (their is a such thing) period and it should apply to basketball video games as well or what is the point of playing them.

If were talking true simulation as far as these sports games are concerned than fundamentals, stategy, adjustments have to be respected. Doesn't matter if you could stop everybody with Iverson, that's unrealistic. You shouldn't be able to, and that's where basketball knowledge and the proper adjustment comes in to play.

Theirs a such thing as Big and small ball. Boston would switch up every now and then and play small ball to create.....wait for it................a mismatch for the opposing team. No matter what anybody says these things matter and acquire basketball knowledge and skill. If your just playing for fun then they should go more of the NBA Jam route and not take into account realistic outcomes.

Why have a defensive matchups options ILL??? Especially if it doesn't work? Shouldn't I be able to have the option to front a big like Ming if he's dominating my Center? This is true skill to me.

[bls]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

are you talking about real life or in Live? Because in real life, the last thing the Hornets would want to see is Kobe with Paul guarding him. Talk about a shark smelling blood.

Co-signing. Thank you!!!!

[Positive Chance]

Stop all the co-signing!

[Live Boii]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

But that's not realistic if were talking basketball sim. Did you ever see Doc Rivers put Rondo on Kobe in the finals??????????????????????????????

That's a MISMATCH (their is a such thing) period and it should apply to basketball video games as well or what is the point of playing them.

If were talking true simulation as far as these sports games are concerned than fundamentals, stategy, adjustments have to be respected. Doesn't matter if you could stop everybody with Iverson, that's unrealistic. You shouldn't be able to, and that's where basketball knowledge and the proper adjustment comes in to play.

Theirs a such thing as Big and small ball. Boston would switch up every now and then and play small ball to create.....wait for it................a mismatch for the opposing team. No matter what anybody says these things matter and acquire basketball knowledge and skill. If your just playing for fun then they should go more of the NBA Jam route and not take into account realistic outcomes.

Why have a defensive matchups options ILL??? Especially if it doesn't work? Shouldn't I be able to have the option to front a big like Ming if he's dominating my Center? This is true skill to me.

but see you are saying its not sim like thats the games fault when its the person you are playing against.