What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

[loadleft]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

This is a basketball game, so when I look at the areas where stick skills can have considerable impact I can think of one-on-one dribble moves, attacking the basket, user controlled defensive positioning and lastly, shooting with the new mechanic. One could also argue that Pick and Roll controls require a certain level of skill with the sticks.
<o></o>
Thus, if I am playing someone who has better stick skills than I do, and I keep getting beat off the dribble by skill based freestyle moves and ankle breakers, or my inability to penetrate or beat my opponent off the dribble then it’s up to me to make a “Basketball” adjustment through the interface provided. (ie. Change matchups, double team, change defenses, bring off-ball help, etc…)
<o></o>
If the interface does not have a viable basketball solution that can be employed to counter-act someone trying to use only superior stick skills to overcompensate for a lack of fundamental basketball knowledge, then this game should not be called “Elite” but simply “NBA Jam 5 on 5”
<o></o>
This is what I was saying in my previous post. I looked through the Controls post for comments on this by any of the dev’s that have been posting, the consensus is that these are issues that will be and have considered when fine tuning the ease to which basketball skills can be executed in various situations. I must admit to being a bit skeptical, (I have played EA Sports games for a long time.) as EA games frequently give the user the ability to overcome sport related strategic obstacles with some over the top skill based executions, and contrarily, utilize attribute boosts to create artificial competitive environments when playing the CPU.
<o></o>
This is why I fully expect that this will be a cheese fest in the beginning, as the superior stick skill crowd find ways to take advantage of the skill based components of this game. It will then be countered with a patch that stem the tide a little bit, but probably affect ( in a negative way) other elements of the game that were working fine previously.
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Ultimately it will be fun with a controlled group of users committed to playing in the spirit of the game, but wait, isn’t that all the sports games now?
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MrMars

MrMars I almost shed a tear when I read your post. Where were you and a couple others when I was crying all over the place about this a couple months back?

I had given up for the most part on OS as it seemed like most were buying into this latest push by EA and would soon regret it. I felt/feel like Elite will be exactly what you predicted, fun and exciting at first (because it's new) but once people realize they can stick skill their way to success the true basketball head guys will turn away. (I learned to not say sim guys because sim turns out to not mean actually simulate the game of basketball as much as it means to simulate what you see, and that's a huge difference in my book).

I really hope I am wrong but every response I read seems to be the push for stick skills to be the ultimate determining factor and it's not like EA doesn't have a track record for this too. It is also my opinion that they are driven to make the outcome totally dependent on the user which leaves room for CPU teammates to play like nuts and the user to have to jump around controlling all of them to compensate. I bring that up because if the CPU teammates actually play real D too then maybe the stuff like freestyling into the paint and hitting contested shots due to stick skills can be compensated for by defensive rotations and proper help D.

I like the idea of hitting the shots I am supposed to hit because of my own skill vs. a CPU decision but I am fearful of this approach meaning that defense only makes the shot more difficult but not impossible or even unlikely unless you block it.

[ParisB]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

Wow, a lot of assumptions and proclamations going on in here.

Calm down guys and play the demo and rent it if you are so pessimistic.

[loadleft]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

Wow, a lot of assumptions and proclamations going on in here.

Calm down guys and play the demo and rent it if you are so pessimistic.

In my view it's the positive take that's an assumption. Us "pessimist" are basing things on EA's track record (years of it!) what are the positive guys going on other than the assumption that "this time it'll be better"?

[jfsolo]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

MrMars I almost shed a tear when I read your post. Where were you and a couple others when I was crying all over the place about this a couple months back?

I had given up for the most part on OS as it seemed like most were buying into this latest push by EA and would soon regret it. I felt/feel like Elite will be exactly what you predicted, fun and exciting at first (because it's new) but once people realize they can stick skill their way to success the true basketball head guys will turn away. (I learned to not say sim guys because sim turns out to not mean actually simulate the game of basketball as much as it means to simulate what you see, and that's a huge difference in my book).

I really hope I am wrong but every response I read seems to be the push for stick skills to be the ultimate determining factor and it's not like EA doesn't have a track record for this too. It is also my opinion that they are driven to make the outcome totally dependent on the user which leaves room for CPU teammates to play like nuts and the user to have to jump around controlling all of them to compensate. I bring that up because if the CPU teammates actually play real D too then maybe the stuff like freestyling into the paint and hitting contested shots due to stick skills can be compensated for by defensive rotations and proper help D.

I like the idea of hitting the shots I am supposed to hit because of my own skill vs. a CPU decision but I am fearful of this approach meaning that defense only makes the shot more difficult but not impossible or even unlikely unless you block it.

There are a lot of us here who share the same concerns, we just don't always join in the conversation because there are too many folks on the other side who don't want to have a thoughtful discussion about the potential pitfalls. They just want to shout down all dissent regardless of the validity of the arguments.

There is definitely a schism in the community about what should be the most important factor(s) in determining success or failure, at first glance it appears that EA is going to tune the game heavily in favor of those who want stick prestidigitation to be the key gameplay mechanic, so obviously those of us who want basketball strategy(as utilized by NBA teams and players) to be absolutely critical to success, are somewhat concerned.

Basketball develops have been reluctant to program their games in a way that punishes wild, street ball like play by Users. This is holding the genre back from reaching its full potential.

[ILLSmak]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

But that's not realistic if were talking basketball sim. Did you ever see Doc Rivers put Rondo on Kobe in the finals??????????????????????????????

That's a MISMATCH (their is a such thing) period and it should apply to basketball video games as well or what is the point of playing them.

If were talking true simulation as far as these sports games are concerned than fundamentals, stategy, adjustments have to be respected. Doesn't matter if you could stop everybody with Iverson, that's unrealistic. You shouldn't be able to, and that's where basketball knowledge and the proper adjustment comes in to play.

Theirs a such thing as Big and small ball. Boston would switch up every now and then and play small ball to create.....wait for it................a mismatch for the opposing team. No matter what anybody says these things matter and acquire basketball knowledge and skill. If your just playing for fun then they should go more of the NBA Jam route and not take into account realistic outcomes.

Why have a defensive matchups options ILL??? Especially if it doesn't work? Shouldn't I be able to have the option to front a big like Ming if he's dominating my Center? This is true skill to me.

I am not a kid, and I believe that as you get older your stick skills get worse. There is known research supporting that as you get older you lose reaction time which, obviously, is an important part. Not sure what the difference a few milliseconds make, but I think I have 'regressed.' But I have, and always will, survive on outsmarting and predicting what my opponent will do. That is a skill few have, and it's kind of like when you'd play your dad or uncle when you were like 16-17 and all of his teammates would be busting your a* with wily 'vet moves.' You gotta be a vet, and look at it like that.

Defensive matchups are generally a bad idea in sports games, and until they fix that I don't really use them. I would never put Kobe @ the PG, though, or Bg Z at PF. I just run my starting lineup and play. The key is to not get too caught up in everything being sim... at least not to the point where you don't try your hardest to combat it. In the end, even if the game is broken, it's still on you not to do your best and give up because you think it's unrealistic.

People are gonna come at you in every way to get wins. Some will even freeze your game to avoid losing. That's part of gaming competitively. When you enter into it, you have to know that and be ready. If not, you can do almost anything with sliders and roster edits offline.

The important thing is I feel, more so than ever with 10, Live has given you the ability to compete with these cheesy players. Why shouldn't you be able to compete defensively if you are guarding Melo or Kobe? If you do the right thing, you should win the matchup. Even if it's just camping for 3s and playing positional defense. I think it's way more game-breaking to have players doing things just because they are themselves. Sure, I don't mind when Melo takes off and dunks over me even though I played good defense, but every time? It goes both ways... if you want non-skill based gameplay you might as well just let the computer play.

There are a lot of us here who share the same concerns, we just don't always join in the conversation because there are too many folks on the other side who don't want to have a thoughtful discussion about the potential pitfalls. They just want to shout down all dissent regardless of the validity of the arguments.

There is definitely a schism in the community about what should be the most important factor(s) in determining success or failure, at first glance it appears that EA is going to tune the game heavily in favor of those who want stick prestidigitation to be the key gameplay mechanic, so obviously those of us who want basketball strategy(as utilized by NBA teams and players) to be absolutely critical to success, are somewhat concerned.

Basketball develops have been reluctant to program their games in a way that punishes wild, street ball like play by Users. This is holding the genre back from reaching its full potential.

And to this person, I don't agree man... the only thing that it looks like they are changing to me is the shot mechanic, which was always too easy. Their changes on dribbling are, hopefully, going to make it so people can't just jerk off the stick randomly and cross someone over.

I could be wrong, man. If Elite comes out and people are killing me and I am using basketball knowledge... then I will come back and say "Oops!" But I don't really buy it.

And for everyone who wants to pick up the game and (I assume?) come online and play... and doesn't want to be at a disadvantage to those who play it almost 24/7 I don't know what to tell you. It's always going to be a game. There is going to be BS.

I was talking w/ my friend last night on Live who said he was gonna be playing ball today and he was gonna bust out some Live ish on people. We were laughing and imagining what it'd be like if someone, in a real game, ran to the corner as fast as they could and launched a three... or did like 6 spin moves in a row into the lane. It's a game, man, it's not THAT serious. Those are basically glitches.

Would be nice to know that with skill and intelligence you can beat glitchers. And that is what I hope Elite brings. If there are too many predetermined outcomes, you get glitchers playing the percentages by doing unrealistic things over and over.

-Smak

[ParisB]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

In my view it's the positive take that's an assumption. Us "pessimist" are basing things on EA's track record (years of it!) what are the positive guys going on other than the assumption that "this time it'll be better"?

Track record? People forget that Live was the cream of the crop for over 10 years running. A couple late hitches and subpar direction changes don’t automatically derail everything. Live 09 was a good step back in the right directio, Live 10 was a solid step even more. Elite is looking like an even bigger step. Don’t underestimate the stride real time physics and full control will mean for the future. Speaking of track records, FIFA and NHL speak for themselves. MVP baseball was king for its short run, Fight Night and Tiger Woods are solid titles. Yea, so spare me the “track record” talk that gets thrown around so much.

Everyone has concerns, but I don’t see what the doom and gloom is all about. A lot of you guys act like giving us unprecedented control and physics in basketball is the wrong move. What makes you think that this means they are ignoring all aspect of basketball? What makes you think this is an arcade approach? What makes you think strategy and basketball thinking will go out the window? Besides, that’s all up to the User and how he or she play it, not a symbol of what the game is all about.

Some of the things people complain about are just unrealistic expectations for video game basketball game. Also, in terms of gameplay, the last thing we need is arbitrary and artificial lines that determine what is cheese and acceptable and what is realistic. Sim gets thrown around too much in forums. Sim is giving the user the means to execute basketball moves and strategies.
Unfortunately a lot of people think Sim is taking control away and adding layers and layers of animations and canned sequences. I don't want that. I want to be able to try to recreate the moves I see in NBA games myself. I want to be rewarded for using a screen with physics instead of animations triggered. I want to adjust in mid air because of my reflees and not hoping the game will pick right for me or suction another animation. That is sim. We will be able to use our basketball IQ. If people want to jungle ball, then so be it. I'm sure in real life you played horse too and weren't restricted to organized 5 on 5 each time on the court. Don't play with cheesers.

Elite seems to be heading the right way

[loadleft]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

No one has forgotten where Live was 5 years ago but the fact that Live is now Elite says that someone other than me recognizes where Live is NOW.

Let me use the word "trend" instead of track record if that registers my meaning better. The latest trend in EA has been to not address the glaring holes in the game, but just add a new feature on top of them instead. If you don't see that then I don't know how we can discuss my POV. I see some say well the development year is short but I say if this is the same engine that you released when you first switched to this gen then you've been developing for some time now, but instead of continually refining you've continually reinvented and as a result have always produced an unfinished product. With the trend being identified there are and have been glaring holes in Live for quite some time, one that comes to mind is rebounding, I think we all can agree on that one. Now each year Live has added the new latest and greatest but not addressed this or any of the other holes. That speaks to the trend that concerns me.

Also I am recalling when Freestyle dribbling was first introduced it was layered on top of the then current game and though it offered more control there was no compensation for it's ability to produce some pretty unrealistic gameplay. I see this new latest and greatest as a similar type feature. Instead of triple crossover spin moves it'll be shot making. Live 10 had a big enough problem w/guys making contested shots, one can only imagine what it'll be like now.

Another thing is the devs have pretty much stated that there emphasis is on making user skill the prevailing factor in determining success, mind you they didn't say basketball theory but user skill. I also look at the videos and listen to devs comments about them. One thing that sticks in my head is when they said they were tuning the game speed to give it a certain feel and responsiveness vs. realism. Things like that concern me because IMO a game about something that has as widely watched and more importantly played real life counterpart as basketball must be true to life first, if your attempt is to make a simulation of that game. That one comment and the thing about holding your shot longer vs. shorter along with the current trend makes me wonder how many more sacrifices of realism will go into making a good video game.

Last thing is Live 09 was good and Live 10 started off good but was patched into a mess, IMO. Then one of the devs keeps making comments that he doesn't know much about how Live 10 played but Elite is this or that. I am not beating him up or anything but it leaves me wondering how can you improve on Live 10 if you don't know where it fell short. That kind explains the latest and greatest thing in a nut shell for me. If no one that builds these games or that is responsible for a particular aspect of the game that had a hole in it last year has played it (and I mean extensively enough to see the holes) but is now trying to improve on it how is improvement possible?

Don't want to beat the game or the devs up because I am still hopeful but I feel if we all stand around and cheer then no one will hear our concerns. Also, I tend to be respectful of just about anyone but I don't feel privileged for a guy that works for a company that is trying to sell me something to come around and answer my questions before I buy it, frankly that should be a prerequisite!

[rEAnimator]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I am not a kid, and I believe that as you get older your stick skills get worse. There is known research supporting that as you get older you lose reaction time which, obviously, is an important part. Not sure what the difference a few milliseconds make, but I think I have 'regressed.' But I have, and always will, survive on outsmarting and predicting what my opponent will do. That is a skill few have, and it's kind of like when you'd play your dad or uncle when you were like 16-17 and all of his teammates would be busting your a* with wily 'vet moves.' You gotta be a vet, and look at it like that.

This discussion is a good one. I'm excited that people are as passionate about gameplay as I am

I'm hearing quite a bit of concern over the "stick skills" aspect of the game so I wanted to comment on that a little bit.

Yes, how well you execute your shot with the right stick will determine if the shot goes in or not. If you execute the *perfect* shot every time the shot will go in every time.

Having played the game, seen data on shots made by people who are playing the game for the first time or have been playing the game since we started development last year I can say with confidence that we can tune a difficult shot to be almost impossible to make.

We can also tune an easy shot to be so easy my grandma could hit the shot (with a little instruction and practice maybe).

The difficulty of the shot will be determined by player ratings and context (contested, settled, distance, momentum, etc).

What this means is that if you want to try and master the stick skills, go right ahead. You'll hit a higher percentage of difficult shots and you may have an edge. But you would have to be super human to hit every shot. I don't think it's going to happen, and if it does we'll know and we'll re-tune things to correct it.

However, if you know your personnel, understand what makes a high percentage shot, you can overcome poor stick skills with superior strategic skills and patience.

For me this mirrors real life. Some players may not have a good basketball mind, but they can use raw skill to make their mark. Other players may not be the most skilled, but their basketball knowledge makes them effective.

The best players will be the players that master both. But if you get good enough on either extreme you should still be able to compete.

And the game is not all about shooting either. Defense plays a huge role, more so than ever before in my opinion.

Playing defense is fun, and I could not say that about last years game.

Bottom line is I'd like to reassure you that the game is not just about stick skills. Basketball strategy and defensive skill play a huge component.

We're trying to make it as close to real life as possible, and balance skill vs. strategy as best we can to give you guys the best experience possible.

Stick skills are being emphasized because this is a first for basketball games and should make playing the game more consistent and rewarding as a player. It is not meant to take away from the strategic elements of the game. It should in fact make them even more realistic and relevant.

[loadleft]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

This discussion is a good one. I'm excited that people are as passionate about gameplay as I am

I'm hearing quite a bit of concern over the "stick skills" aspect of the game so I wanted to comment on that a little bit.

Yes, how well you execute your shot with the right stick will determine if the shot goes in or not. If you execute the *perfect* shot every time the shot will go in every time.

Having played the game, seen data on shots made by people who are playing the game for the first time or have been playing the game since we started development last year I can say with confidence that we can tune a difficult shot to be almost impossible to make.

We can also tune an easy shot to be so easy my grandma could hit the shot (with a little instruction and practice maybe).

The difficulty of the shot will be determined by player ratings and context (contested, settled, distance, momentum, etc).

What this means is that if you want to try and master the stick skills, go right ahead. You'll hit a higher percentage of difficult shots and you may have an edge. But you would have to be super human to hit every shot. I don't think it's going to happen, and if it does we'll know and we'll re-tune things to correct it.

However, if you know your personnel, understand what makes a high percentage shot, you can overcome poor stick skills with superior strategic skills and patience.

For me this mirrors real life. Some players may not have a good basketball mind, but they can use raw skill to make their mark. Other players may not be the most skilled, but their basketball knowledge makes them effective.

The best players will be the players that master both. But if you get good enough on either extreme you should still be able to compete.

And the game is not all about shooting either. Defense plays a huge role, more so than ever before in my opinion.

Playing defense is fun, and I could not say that about last years game.

Bottom line is I'd like to reassure you that the game is not just about stick skills. Basketball strategy and defensive skill play a huge component.

We're trying to make it as close to real life as possible, and balance skill vs. strategy as best we can to give you guys the best experience possible.

Stick skills are being emphasized because this is a first for basketball games and should make playing the game more consistent and rewarding as a player. It is not meant to take away from the strategic elements of the game. It should in fact make them even more realistic and relevant.

I as one your biggest critics, at least of the ones that remain open minded enough to try the game and hope for something positive, appreciate you taking the time to explain that. I am sure you know what your hurdles are in terms of perception and I am sure you know why. I happen to believe if we were all standing around cheering whatever you do then you wouldn't have taken the time to explain that and possibly not have kept as close an eye on these aspects as I expect you will now or have been.

I am not trying to take credit for anything I just want to make sure that whatever I can do to emphasize how make or break this year is that I do that. I feel like, and know based on some behind the scenes talk with some of the less vocal OS members, that a lot of loyalist, fanboys, whatever you call them, went all in least year and feel let down now, myself included. I've bought and enjoyed every, and I mean every Live until Live 10. That one frustrates me to no end. I am at the point that if this year repeats last year then I'm done.

Live 10 had a lot of positives, so don't get me wrong but negatives along with the fact that some of them have been present for so long just left me fed up. All this I know you know already, so thanks again for your efforts here's to hoping you succeed!

[rEAnimator]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

I as one your biggest critics, at least of the ones that remain open minded enough to try the game and hope for something positive, appreciate you taking the time to explain that. I am sure you know what your hurdles are in terms of perception and I am sure you know why. I happen to believe if we were all standing around cheering whatever you do then you wouldn't have taken the time to explain that and possibly not have kept as close an eye on these aspects as I expect you will now or have been.

I am not trying to take credit for anything I just want to make sure that whatever I can do to emphasize how make or break this year is that I do that. I feel like, and know based on some behind the scenes talk with some of the less vocal OS members, that a lot of loyalist, fanboys, whatever you call them, went all in least year and feel let down now, myself included. I've bought and enjoyed every, and I mean every Live until Live 10. That one frustrates me to no end. I am at the point that if this year repeats last year then I'm done.

Live 10 had a lot of positives, so don't get me wrong but negatives along with the fact that some of them have been present for so long just left me fed up. All this I know you know already, so thanks again for your efforts here's to hoping you succeed!

Thanks. To be more honest than I probably should be I feel exactly the same way you do. You can read what you will into that statement.

I don't want to promise you guys things and have them turn out not to be true.

What I do want to do is make sure you know our intentions, understand what we're doing to try and accomplish our goals, make sure you have realistic expectations and gather feedback so we set the right priorities as we wind down development of the game.

Hearing the feedback definitely has an impact.

Not only specific features we've added as a result of community feedback (def hops, clear lane fouls, the double clutch shot I haven't told you about yet but am going to once I get a free moment to type it up), but also higher level concerns like the importance of strategic gameplay.

So please continue to be a critic.

[ILLSmak]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

This discussion is a good one. I'm excited that people are as passionate about gameplay as I am

I'm hearing quite a bit of concern over the "stick skills" aspect of the game so I wanted to comment on that a little bit.

Yes, how well you execute your shot with the right stick will determine if the shot goes in or not. If you execute the *perfect* shot every time the shot will go in every time.

Having played the game, seen data on shots made by people who are playing the game for the first time or have been playing the game since we started development last year I can say with confidence that we can tune a difficult shot to be almost impossible to make.

We can also tune an easy shot to be so easy my grandma could hit the shot (with a little instruction and practice maybe).

The difficulty of the shot will be determined by player ratings and context (contested, settled, distance, momentum, etc).

What this means is that if you want to try and master the stick skills, go right ahead. You'll hit a higher percentage of difficult shots and you may have an edge. But you would have to be super human to hit every shot. I don't think it's going to happen, and if it does we'll know and we'll re-tune things to correct it.

However, if you know your personnel, understand what makes a high percentage shot, you can overcome poor stick skills with superior strategic skills and patience.

For me this mirrors real life. Some players may not have a good basketball mind, but they can use raw skill to make their mark. Other players may not be the most skilled, but their basketball knowledge makes them effective.

The best players will be the players that master both. But if you get good enough on either extreme you should still be able to compete.

And the game is not all about shooting either. Defense plays a huge role, more so than ever before in my opinion.

Playing defense is fun, and I could not say that about last years game.

Bottom line is I'd like to reassure you that the game is not just about stick skills. Basketball strategy and defensive skill play a huge component.

We're trying to make it as close to real life as possible, and balance skill vs. strategy as best we can to give you guys the best experience possible.

Stick skills are being emphasized because this is a first for basketball games and should make playing the game more consistent and rewarding as a player. It is not meant to take away from the strategic elements of the game. It should in fact make them even more realistic and relevant.

lol, Hey, playing Defense is fun for me because very few people on Live really do and it's fun to impact the game on the other side of the ball. Everything in Live except for corner 3s is defensible. The eurostep/hop step moves when used correctly almost always yield a foul, but they aren't impossible to stop.

I don't really believe that in this version of NBA "Elite" that you guys will get the stick skills idea right, but I am not worried because I like the direction.

The largest problem with the stick skill argument is (if they even still exist, I think they do?) program pads. If someone could find a spot that was easy to get to and 'program' in a make... that'd be deadly. The only way to combat that is making it so every situation is different and I hope you guys take that into account.

I'm very anxious to see how well a lot of the people who I consider 'shooters' in Live 10 do in 11...

I can not believe that people will be against a harder shot. That's the first step. People need to make the averages... not a code. But I do remember Live 06... and how when I was 'really good' we'd go through games and hit 70-90% of our shots... and that's kind of bogus... especially if people are exploiting a code flaw.

I think it'll also be important to have a reign on what makes shots work so that it will be edit-able once you release the game if people are shooting too well. Basically, you have to understand that there are people out there that will be able to make every shot even if your testers can't. I can say, "Good game" to them, but it will be game breaking if too many people can. And you'll have to step in and patch that otherwise people might jump off of your idea of stick skills (Which is a good one, but might take some time to implement well.)

-Smak

[rEAnimator]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

lol, Hey, playing Defense is fun for me because very few people on Live really do and it's fun to impact the game on the other side of the ball. Everything in Live except for corner 3s is defensible. The eurostep/hop step moves when used correctly almost always yield a foul, but they aren't impossible to stop.

I don't really believe that in this version of NBA "Elite" that you guys will get the stick skills idea right, but I am not worried because I like the direction.

The largest problem with the stick skill argument is (if they even still exist, I think they do?) program pads. If someone could find a spot that was easy to get to and 'program' in a make... that'd be deadly. The only way to combat that is making it so every situation is different and I hope you guys take that into account.

I'm very anxious to see how well a lot of the people who I consider 'shooters' in Live 10 do in 11...

I can not believe that people will be against a harder shot. That's the first step. People need to make the averages... not a code. But I do remember Live 06... and how when I was 'really good' we'd go through games and hit 70-90% of our shots... and that's kind of bogus... especially if people are exploiting a code flaw.

I think it'll also be important to have a reign on what makes shots work so that it will be edit-able once you release the game if people are shooting too well. Basically, you have to understand that there are people out there that will be able to make every shot even if your testers can't. I can say, "Good game" to them, but it will be game breaking if too many people can. And you'll have to step in and patch that otherwise people might jump off of your idea of stick skills (Which is a good one, but might take some time to implement well.)

-Smak

Don't worry, we'll be watching the stats from the demo which will influence the final tuning, and I am almost certain we'll be watching the results from the final product as well.

If someone creates special hardware that's another story. If it does happen, I have a strategy on how to combat it that will be true to basketball as well. But I don't want to tip my hand prematurely

[mario_2324]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

Thanks. To be more honest than I probably should be I feel exactly the same way you do. You can read what you will into that statement.

I don't want to promise you guys things and have them turn out not to be true.

What I do want to do is make sure you know our intentions, understand what we're doing to try and accomplish our goals, make sure you have realistic expectations and gather feedback so we set the right priorities as we wind down development of the game.

Hearing the feedback definitely has an impact.

Not only specific features we've added as a result of community feedback (def hops, clear lane fouls, the double clutch shot I haven't told you about yet but am going to once I get a free moment to type it up), but also higher level concerns like the importance of strategic gameplay.

So please continue to be a critic.

Boy o boy. Surprised no one has asked about the double clutch shot....Man i see why you guys keep stressing control..... Hope its manual of course lol.:wink: Nice to know it will be in the game.

[Jano]

Re: What are your feelings on this new skill based gameplay?

Thanks for the response rEAnimator really appreciate it and it seems like you guys are thinking on the same wavelength as me.

So its nice to see that it just all comes down to the execution as always hopefully yall can pull it off this year..