Ask the devs : Physics

[Haval93]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I know this is a hockey clip. But will we see collision like this in mid-air?You can see how both players react to each other and collide accordingly. No clipping on the hit or anything and looks very natural. Also is Elite 11 and NHL 11 sharing the same physics engine?

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[FearlessKaz]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

If what I saw in that NHL 11 vid is any indication of what to expect in Elite, then color me very impressed.

[Superstarshooter32]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I recall a dev (I think it was rEAnimator) saying something along the lines of "If a player is between you and the ball when attempting a chasedown block, you'll likely commit a foul," and I think this shouldn't be the case.

Let me show you why:

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Notice how Lee was between LeBron and the ball yet Lee and LeBron made NO contact whatsoever? If you look carefully, it's because Lee was going straight, and thus landed out of bounds right under the backboard after the layup. LeBron, however, shifted his weight so that after his jump, he landed to the side of the backboard out of bounds.

LeBron James is VERY good at this on chasedowns, and of all the 50 or so times I've seen him get a chasedown block, I think I've seen him commit a foul maybe ONCE. That's no exaggeration.

If we're able to shift our weight or somehow manipulate the angle at which our player jumps like LeBron does, will we be able to get blocks from behind without fouling? Remember that on chasedown attempts, the shooter will be between the trailing defender and the ball 99.9% of the time.

[randombrother]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

LeBron James is VERY good at this on chasedowns, and of all the 50 or so times I've seen him get a chasedown block, I think I've seen him commit a foul maybe ONCE. That's no exaggeration.

And this is the problem with games. No offense dude but he's fouled WAY more than once on attempting those plays not to mention the times he didn't get the block or the times guys made moves knowing he was coming to block over the top. But people only remember the "50 or so times while fouling 'maybe' once". Then the devs know people want to see that and thus you have a broken game.

Jordan was a great player but people don't remember every shot he took OVER HALF he missed. Nobody remembers the misses. They think he shot 99 percent for his career.

[Superstarshooter32]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

And this is the problem with games. No offense dude but he's fouled WAY more than once on attempting those plays not to mention the times he didn't get the block or the times guys made moves knowing he was coming to block over the top. But people only remember the "50 or so times while fouling 'maybe' once". Then the devs know people want to see that and thus you have a broken game.

The only time I can remember LeBron fouling a player on a chasedown and not getting called for it was when he "blocked" Jason Richardson's 360 dunk. He fouled the hell out of him, but that was only because it was a dunk.

Trust me on this one. I don't wanna seem pompous or anything, but I watch a lot of NBA basketball. On top of that, I love LeBron, I love defense, and I love chasedown blocks. I've paid a lot of attention to stuff like this, and I think what I said pertaining to LeBron's momentum and whatnot is accurate.

I mean, seriously, you can go to YouTube and put "LeBron chasedown" in the search bar, hit enter and click on ANY video, and you'll probably see LeBron getting a clean block from behind with no contact on the shooter whatsoever. If anyone is bored, you should actually try that to see if I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'll admit so.

[dexvex]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

And this is the problem with games. No offense dude but he's fouled WAY more than once on attempting those plays not to mention the times he didn't get the block or the times guys made moves knowing he was coming to block over the top. But people only remember the "50 or so times while fouling 'maybe' once". Then the devs know people want to see that and thus you have a broken game.

Jordan was a great player but people don't remember every shot he took OVER HALF he missed. Nobody remembers the misses. They think he shot 99 percent for his career.

I gotta disagree, LBJ has only been called foul on less than about 5% of those attempts...

[rEAnimator]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I recall a dev (I think it was rEAnimator) saying something along the lines of "If a player is between you and the ball when attempting a chasedown block, you'll likely commit a foul," and I think this shouldn't be the case.

Let me show you why:

<object height="385" width="640">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NWQKORmtY5g&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="640"></object>

Notice how Lee was between LeBron and the ball yet Lee and LeBron made NO contact whatsoever? If you look carefully, it's because Lee was going straight, and thus landed out of bounds right under the backboard after the layup. LeBron, however, shifted his weight so that after his jump, he landed to the side of the backboard out of bounds.

LeBron James is VERY good at this on chasedowns, and of all the 50 or so times I've seen him get a chasedown block, I think I've seen him commit a foul maybe ONCE. That's no exaggeration.

If we're able to shift our weight or somehow manipulate the angle at which our player jumps like LeBron does, will we be able to get blocks from behind without fouling? Remember that on chasedown attempts, the shooter will be between the trailing defender and the ball 99.9% of the time.

To be fair, I did say likely

It is a physical simulation, so if you get a case like this where the blockers arms are long enough, and the angle and timing are right, you could definitely see something similar to this in our game.

It's not like we've written a rule in the game that says "if the shooter's body is between the blocker and the ball it will be a foul".

The logic is more based on the kind of contact that happens.

[Superstarshooter32]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

To be fair, I did say likely

It is a physical simulation, so if you get a case like this where the blockers arms are long enough, and the angle and timing are right, you could definitely see something similar to this in our game.

It's not like we've written a rule in the game that says "if the shooter's body is between the blocker and the ball it will be a foul".

The logic is more based on the kind of contact that happens.

I understand, I just feel like if we as the player controlling LeBron are good at getting chasedown blocks just like he is (i.e., timing and whatnot), the physics engine plus LeBron's physical capabilities in the game should allow us to replicate the way he blocks players from behind in transition. That will be the case, right?

Also, how will momentum and vertical leap ability tie into the game? If I'm running full speed with LeBron and I go for that chasedown block, will he jump farther (not higher, farther) depending on how fast I'm running?

[randombrother]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I mean, seriously, you can go to YouTube and put "LeBron chasedown" in the search bar, hit enter and click on ANY video, and you'll probably see LeBron getting a clean block from behind with no contact on the shooter whatsoever. If anyone is bored, you should actually try that to see if I'm right. If I'm wrong, I'll admit so.

But you're proving exactly what I'm talking about. That's all people remember. Do a search for Michael Jordan misses and I bet money if you get any video it won't be alot. Same with Lebron. Do a search for "Lebron pulls up from a chasedown". You probably wont find one video but I've seen enough of his games to know there are plenty of times he decide to pull up instead of attempt the chasedown. But people don't remember that. They want Lebron chasing down any and everything with no regard.

But that's ok as long as EA can make two lobbies. One for people who want to just run Lebron straight at the ball handler with no regard of anything and get a ton of ESPN plays and one for the guy with Lebron who has A CHANCE at a great looking ESPN play but it's gonna take more than just charging at the ballhandler. Better time it right and hope the circumstances are right for it.

[Jano]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

How has the game changed in regards to the stronger and more physical players like Artest on D, Shaq or Dwight in the post, and LBJ driving down the lane?

Will we be able to take advantage of their strength this year? One thing I hated about last year was how easily guys could be pushed around by the defense due to the canned animations.

I would love to be able to put my head down in charge the lane with these guys. But on the other hand I also wanted to know if their strength IS taken into account will more charges/blocking calls be used on them too?

[Superstarshooter32]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

But you're proving exactly what I'm talking about. That's all people remember. Do a search for Michael Jordan misses and I bet money if you get any video it won't be alot. Same with Lebron. Do a search for "Lebron pulls up from a chasedown". You probably wont find one video but I've seen enough of his games to know there are plenty of times he decide to pull up instead of attempt the chasedown. But people don't remember that. They want Lebron chasing down any and everything with no regard.

But people like me, who watch a lot of basketball, WILL remember stuff like that. I've seen that a lot as well. It's mostly when it's someone who he knows will dunk, like Wade, Iguodala, Gerald Wallace, etc.

When you're knowledgeable on a subject enough to feel confident that you can give advice to a multi-million dollar gaming company, I feel as if you should be privy to ALL aspects of the subject, and not just the "good" or the "positive."

Trust me, if LeBron was a foul-prone chasedown shot-blocker, I'd realize it, and so would a lot of other people, especially on here. The casual fan might not, but we would.

But that's ok as long as EA can make two lobbies. One for people who want to just run Lebron straight at the ball handler with no regard of anything and get a ton of ESPN plays and one for the guy with Lebron who has A CHANCE at a great looking ESPN play but it's gonna take more than just charging at the ballhandler. Better time it right and hope the circumstances are right for it.

I agree that you shouldn't be able to just play haphazardly and have the virtual LeBron do all the work. If we were to be able to get massive chasedown blocks like he does, it should be more about our timing than anything, and THEN if we get that right, his abilities in the game will combine with the user input to create the shot-block we wanted.

On that note, I'm worried that if I play this game online and try to get chasedowns with LeBron, players that were in Courtney Lee's situation (or a situation of one-on-none with only LeBron trailing and no one in front) will dunk when they maybe shouldn't. What's the dunk "range" like on default? How does momentum tie into it? For example, someone like Wade, who is a very good dunk, might not be able to dunk even if no one's under the basket if he has to catch an outlet pass, gather and doesn't have time or room on the court to build up his momentum.

[mrprice33]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

But people like me, who watch a lot of basketball, WILL remember stuff like that. I've seen that a lot as well. It's mostly when it's someone who he knows will dunk, like Wade, Iguodala, Gerald Wallace, etc.

When you're knowledgeable on a subject enough to feel confident that you can give advice to a multi-million dollar gaming company, I feel as if you should be privy to ALL aspects of the subject, and not just the "good" or the "positive."

Trust me, if LeBron was a foul-prone chasedown shot-blocker, I'd realize it, and so would a lot of other people, especially on here. The casual fan might not, but we would.



I agree that you shouldn't be able to just play haphazardly and have the virtual LeBron do all the work. If we were to be able to get massive chasedown blocks like he does, it should be more about our timing than anything, and THEN if we get that right, his abilities in the game will combine with the user input to create the shot-block we wanted.

On that note, I'm worried that if I play this game online and try to get chasedowns with LeBron, players that were in Courtney Lee's situation (or a situation of one-on-none with only LeBron trailing and no one in front) will dunk when they maybe shouldn't. What's the dunk "range" like on default? How does momentum tie into it? For example, someone like Wade, who is a very good dunk, might not be able to dunk even if no one's under the basket if he has to catch an outlet pass, gather and doesn't have time or room on the court to build up his momentum.

Not to audition to be a mod, but stop derailing the thread please.

I had a question about physics and fouls. In a situation like the chasedown block that is being discussed in the thread, how will the game determine if a foul has occurred? Is there a threshold of contact that is acceptable before fouls are called? In live last year, there were "foul animations" that caused a dice roll that then determined if there was a foul or not. How is that changing with RTP?

[taxinem]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

can we still block a shot after the whistle has blown to prevent an AND 1? and risk a chance at goaltending for that matter...

[michaeljordanjr]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

To be fair, I did say likely

It is a physical simulation, so if you get a case like this where the blockers arms are long enough, and the angle and timing are right, you could definitely see something similar to this in our game.

It's not like we've written a rule in the game that says "if the shooter's body is between the blocker and the ball it will be a foul".

The logic is more based on the kind of contact that happens.

I think the key attribute in this scenario is SPEED. The defender chasing is always faster, because once Lee takes two steps for a layup or jam he slows down while Lebron speeds up and increases his momentum at lift off.

So the question is, how does player speed/momentum work in Elite 11' during these particular situations? Do players slow down when they gather or is it one speed attribute? Perhaps adding a gather attribute for speed would be needed?

[Superstarshooter32]

Re: Ask the devs : Physics

I think the key attribute in this scenario is SPEED. The defender chasing is always faster, because once Lee takes two steps for a layup or jam he slows down while Lebron speeds up and increases his momentum at lift off.

Very true. Also to add to this, I'd like to make two more points:

-The trailer is also faster than the ballhandler (usually-- with LeBron I'd say he almost always is faster than the ballhandler he's chasing) because running without the ball is easier than running while dribbling. Will players have a higher top speed without the ball as opposed to their top speed while dribbling?

-Also, will a player take longer for his gather if he tries to dunk as opposed to laying it up? That's the reason a lot of players layup on fast breaks when maybe they could dunk, because it would take too long to get all the gather they need to get high enough to dunk.