Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

[©roke]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

We do have dunk animations like that in the game, but you can't control the double clutch so it's not something I'd brag about. But it's in the game.

The double clutch shot is user controlled though. I'll get into that more later.

Gotta run for now...

Niiiiiiceeee!!! I'm waiting to know how you did it!! :wink:

[mario_2324]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Niiiiiiceeee!!! I'm waiting to know how you did it!! :wink:

Same thing i said lol.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Is lack of power in the systems game space, can rtp only be applied to so many object's at this stage. Don't get me wrong I do see it games but it doesn't seem to apply to all part's of a game. Whats the biggest hurdle with this tech, is just still to new.

Thanks for helping me understand.

OK, so the second part of your question...

Lack of power in the systems is definitely a limiting factor. There's no way we could run, say, the Fight Night physics engine on all players in an NBA game at the same time.

But even if you have all the power you need, the biggest challenge is getting the physics to work well with gameplay and making it look good with the animations.

For this year we have focused 100% of our efforts on integrating physics in ways that affect gameplay.

People have asked if the head of a player could still clip through the backboad, and if arms will still clip through other players a little bit. That is not where we've focused our energy because those are visual problems and don't affect gameplay. We will get to those in the future no doubt, but this year was all about gameplay.

So things like in air collisions for dunk-ons, rebounds, blocks have been focused on because we wanted resolutions to those in game moments that were physically realistic and dynamic.

Things like using your body on defense to stop your opponent from penetrating, using your size and strength in the post to push people around.

We made the locomotion physics driven so it is consistent and responsive no matter what animation you're playing.

That has been our focus, and the biggest challenge has been maintaining high visual quality.

Fortunately we've nailed the controls and the gameplay. The game is fun and feels AMAZING.

We're now focusing on bringing the visual quality up. We'll fix as much as we can between now and when we ship the game (while tuning and tweaking certain gameplay systems along the way) but the good news is that the controls and gameplay are where we want them.

And we'll fix as much of the visual stuff as we can in the time we have left.

We've already made huge strides since the last gameplay footage you've seen and it keeps getting better every day.

I kind of got off topic there for a bit, but I hope I answered your question.

If not feel free to follow up with more questions.

[Jano]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Fortunately we've nailed the controls and the gameplay. The game is fun and feels AMAZING.

Read this part and wanted to know can you give more detail as to what this means on the defensive side of the ball.

Last year Live felt good on Offense but on D it was just plain frustrating at times. I mean last year playing D was supposed to be fun too but we know how that turned out lol!!

So can you give us some examples on how its improved from last year. One thing that sticks out in my mind is I could never really tell when I was in good position on D.

It would look nice on screen but then I'd be drawing fouls left and right and I could never understand why.

[mitchellsayers360]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

The rondo fake best illustrated by nba 2k10

m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=gZZdlh8XcHI

[Live_4real]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

OK, so the second part of your question...

Lack of power in the systems is definitely a limiting factor. There's no way we could run, say, the Fight Night physics engine on all players in an NBA game at the same time.

But is there a need to use the Fight night engine in a bball game???

In fight night the level of detail between body interactions is just ridiculous, but the physical contact in a box ring, is so different then in a bball game

Without knowing nothing about physic engines, I would say that only having 2 guys interacting, is one of the reasons why the physic engine can be so detailed and complex, without losing the responsiveness and control by the user

In a bball game, and in any sport involving many players, you have to make decisions, you have to give weight, momentum, skeleton to players, you have to calculate interactions based on physics, but you also have to keep the responsiveness

When you give almost total control to the user, like Elite is doing, you can´t lose the real time control, and have delayed results to any action you wan´t your player to do

My question is probably a noob question, but imagine, that Dhoward and Cp3 collide mid-air, the real time physics, from what i understand, will determine the outcome of that contact, that can be different every single time that happens, but after the collision, both of them will have to land on the floor.

The real question is the landing, is it pure animation, regardless of the momentum and the result of previous body contact, or is it based on physics already???

I think you will say that is animation only, and if so, is it future goal to make it based on physics, and we see guys falling hard on the floor, either in mid-air collisions, or simply when 2 player interact and one loses the balance when dribbling or off the ball???

<object height="385" width="480">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ARNlsN4EBG0&hl=pt_PT&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="385" width="480"></object>

This is an extreme example, but you get it

One thing I think people don´t understand is that you can´t compare NBA physics with NHL or any sport, because in the NBA you have guys jumping, making every single interaction between players mid-air, more and more complex, and these interactions, can be hard ones, like in Madden, or if they only touch your arm, it is foul, so the level of detail has to be ridiculous accurate

This is why NBA video games have a long way to go, until they reach elite level, and this is also why, the implementation of physics, is crucial for them to be precise

So that we don´t see arms morphing, and start going to the replay and see if we actually hit the arm of the player, instead of yelling: How is that not a foul???

Based on your knowledge and experience, do you think it is possible to do a 100% NBA video game based on physics without losing responsiveness, in the next couple of years???

Feel free to answer when you can, and to make corrections about my "nooby" opinion based on common sense, appreciate the time spent listening to people that love NBA and want to help giving useful, critical feedback, and thanks for charing the flaws, the goods and future goals, for this franchise, that needed a solid foundation, and this is the year were that foundation is built

PeAcE

[Vaiasucks]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Hey rEAnimator....

I know you guys don't want to completely tip your hand about the upcoming online features, but wouldn't sharing some of that side of development help too?

If we've helped with AI/gameplay/controls I'm sure we have some critics that could assist the online modes as well.

[loadleft]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Read this part and wanted to know can you give more detail as to what this means on the defensive side of the ball.

Last year Live felt good on Offense but on D it was just plain frustrating at times. I mean last year playing D was supposed to be fun too but we know how that turned out lol!!

So can you give us some examples on how its improved from last year. One thing that sticks out in my mind is I could never really tell when I was in good position on D.

It would look nice on screen but then I'd be drawing fouls left and right and I could never understand why.

I had a similar experience with last years D! Even though I could deal with it I hope this year you guys do a better job of sizing/shaping the cylinders (or what ever polygon you use) you use for collision detection so that they encompass full width of the defensive player so that the offensive player actually has to around the defender. Last year it felt like the cylinders were about the width of a pencil and all the offensive player had to do was get his center just slightly out of line with the defensive player and he was sliding past for a lay-up, dunk, shot, etc.!

[taxinem]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

since u guys feel good about the controls, gameplay, and physics of the game....
do u think it's here to stay?
do u think that u guys can finally move on and focus on other parts of the game that is lacking...
such as franchise mode, visuals, and all of the intangibles?
wut would it take for u guys to feel comfortable enuff to move on by adding on and not have to sacrifice parts of the game that is important to us just so u guys can start over on gameplay yet again!
because they don't continue to "start over" or "reinvent" themselves is the reason why the competition has the superior product! thus, earning them higher game sales!
do u see u guy getting to this point in the near future?

[seemoe]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Can you play shortened season lengths? For example playing only a 29 game season rather than a full 82 game schedule.

[rEAnimator]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Read this part and wanted to know can you give more detail as to what this means on the defensive side of the ball.

Last year Live felt good on Offense but on D it was just plain frustrating at times. I mean last year playing D was supposed to be fun too but we know how that turned out lol!!

So can you give us some examples on how its improved from last year. One thing that sticks out in my mind is I could never really tell when I was in good position on D.

It would look nice on screen but then I'd be drawing fouls left and right and I could never understand why.

I'd love to talk more about this as it was one of my major focuses for the year.

First off we improved the locomotion so that the player is much more responsive. That was probably the biggest problem that needed to be fixed. You need responsive movement in order to get into position and react to what the offense is doing.

As a result there is no longer a defensive assist button. You are responsible for moving the player around yourself at all times. Again, this is only possible because of how responsive the locomotion system is.

The next big change you'll notice is that there are no more two player animations. In last years game the only thing that kept the offensive player from penetrating is that he'd get sucked into two player animations for dribble bumps and jostles. And the rules for when that happened weren't clear and consistent, and really didn't stay true to basketball.

This year we are using physics to determine the outcome. In order to accomplish this we had to change the collision shapes used. This is a relatively simple but key change in my opinion.

Last year, when you weren't in a two player animation, collisions were handled through cylinders (or circles if you're looking at an overhead 2D view of the court). Because you're using circles, players would slide around each other when they collide. Good for incidental contact, bad if you are trying to play effective defense. Many sports games use circles for collisions. We needed something different.

We went with circles anchored at the chest and hips for the dribbler, and capsules anchored at the chest and hips for the defender.

The best way to imagine what this means is to find two golf balls and a can of pop.

Take the two golf balls, pretend one is the dribbler and one is the defender and run them into each other. Notice how they'll slide around each other.

Now take one golf ball as the dribbler and press him into the pop can. Notice how he won't slide around the defender, he'll get caught and slowly slide to the edge. But if you were trying to keep the ball from getting by you, it's much more effective with the pop can than it is with another golf ball.

So defensive is very similar to this in our game. As a defender you're the pop can, or paddle, squared up to the ball carrier trying to block his path.

Obviously there's a lot more going on in the game than that to have this supported by animations, but it's the best analogy to describe the general system.

I feel this captures the real life interaction in a much more realistic way.

On top of this, stealing has been completely re-implemented. When you attempt a steal you are still free to move around. We layer the steal animation onto the upper body. We then use real physics to determine of you hit the ball or the player to determine if it's a steal or a foul.

As the dribbler you also have to cross over manually to switch hands, so there is more responsibility on the offensive player to protect the ball.

This makes defensive positioning matter a lot more.

Finally, blocks have been re-implemented as well. They work very similar to steals in that they are physics based to determine the outcome. And they've been tuned to be much more effective.

I feel the end result is a much more balanced game, where you have much more freedom and control on defense, and more responsibility on offense to think about what you're doing and protect the ball.

You can't just blindly run towards to hoop and hope for the best.

Hope this helps paint a better picture of what defense is like in Elite 11.

[mario_2324]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

I'd love to talk more about this as it was one of my major focuses for the year.

First off we improved the locomotion so that the player is much more responsive. That was probably the biggest problem that needed to be fixed. You need responsive movement in order to get into position and react to what the offense is doing.

As a result there is no longer a defensive assist button. You are responsible for moving the player around yourself at all times. Again, this is only possible because of how responsive the locomotion system is.

The next big change you'll notice is that there are no more two player animations. In last years game the only thing that kept the offensive player from penetrating is that he'd get sucked into two player animations for dribble bumps and jostles. And the rules for when that happened weren't clear and consistent, and really didn't stay true to basketball.

This year we are using physics to determine the outcome. In order to accomplish this we had to change the collision shapes used. This is a relatively simple but key change in my opinion.

Last year, when you weren't in a two player animation, collisions were handled through cylinders (or circles if you're looking at an overhead 2D view of the court). Because you're using circles, players would slide around each other when they collide. Good for incidental contact, bad if you are trying to play effective defense. Many sports games use circles for collisions. We needed something different.

We went with circles anchored at the chest and hips for the dribbler, and capsules anchored at the chest and hips for the defender.

The best way to imagine what this means is to find two golf balls and a can of pop.

Take the two golf balls, pretend one is the dribbler and one is the defender and run them into each other. Notice how they'll slide around each other.

Now take one golf ball as the dribbler and press him into the pop can. Notice how he won't slide around the defender, he'll get caught and slowly slide to the edge. But if you were trying to keep the ball from getting by you, it's much more effective with the pop can than it is with another golf ball.

So defensive is very similar to this in our game. As a defender you're the pop can, or paddle, squared up to the ball carrier trying to block his path.

Obviously there's a lot more going on in the game than that to have this supported by animations, but it's the best analogy to describe the general system.

I feel this captures the real life interaction in a much more realistic way.

On top of this, stealing has been completely re-implemented. When you attempt a steal you are still free to move around. We layer the steal animation onto the upper body. We then use real physics to determine of you hit the ball or the player to determine if it's a steal or a foul.

As the dribbler you also have to cross over manually to switch hands, so there is more responsibility on the offensive player to protect the ball.

This makes defensive positioning matter a lot more.

Finally, blocks have been re-implemented as well. They work very similar to steals in that they are physics based to determine the outcome. And they've been tuned to be much more effective.

I feel the end result is a much more balanced game, where you have much more freedom and control on defense, and more responsibility on offense to think about what you're doing and protect the ball.

You can't just blindly run towards to hoop and hope for the best.

Hope this helps paint a better picture of what defense is like in Elite 11.

Thanks rEAnimator for clearin things up. It seems like the game will balance out well between both sides of the ball My guess is that the injuries will have more effect with the whole physics engine and what not.....If u can let us know anything about injuries now that would be great, but if not its all good. I appreciate any of your responses to the members here

[mario_2324]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Does fighting through screens look more natural due to RTP?

[Jano]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

Ok that sounds great, it seems like the defender is going to be an actual moving obstacle for the offensive player to deal with. Instead of the walking suction cup that they were last year.

Another question I have for defense is on the animation side.

Have you guys added any more animations for defensive sliding/positions, because last year the defender moved in the same way all the time. For example they never moved to deny the ball which made going for steals in the passing lane difficult.

Also when defenders were guarding someone 1 on 1 they never opened up their stance or shaded the defender. They just played straight up D no matter what even if they were already beat by their man.

And on the rare occasion that they did shade or open up their stance it was only because of the two man animations. So I guess my question is are these actions controllable this year?

Can we shade to one side? Can we deny the passing lane instead of just standing there like a bump on a log lol!

I think these things will go a long way in making the game look and feel a lot more like bball on the defensive side of the ball. It would also do wonders for the offensive side too because then the player will actually be visually aware of exactly how his players are being defended.

[thomonkey]

Re: Random Questions For NBA Elite 11

reanimator, what happens to the pop can/ping pong ball system during a loose ball? there isn't any true defender/offensive player during a loose ball so how is this taken into account?

also, when does a defender switch from pop can to ping pong ball? is it when possession changes the defender instantly changes to a ping pong ball?