The poster who is praising Live 10 for its gameplay and criticizing "the more recent" 2K games fails to realize that the same guy made both...
EA should scratch Live 13?
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Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
The poster who is praising Live 10 for its gameplay and criticizing "the more recent" 2K games fails to realize that the same guy made both... -
Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
That's an excellent interview. Thanks for posting!
I usually wouldn't respond to something like this, but I'm bored. First of all, we haven't even seen NBA Live 13 yet. We've only seen some pre-alpha footage. It's far too early to try and judge whether or not it's as good as 2K. For all you know the retail version could drop and it could have better gameplay than 2K. Who knows. And honestly, all that talk about which games are better than other games is just relative. One man's trash is another man's treasure if I must use that cliche. Apples and oranges. Live will probably be much different than 2K and deliver a completely different experience.
Secondly, the 2K series is far from perfect. In fact, I would say it's been regressing since 2K8, and Live 10 was the best recent basketball game I've played. I'm not really knocking 2K, the animation and look of their basketball games are top notch, but other areas leave a lot to be desired. Again this is just my opinion.
I will be buying Live 13 no matter what. I'm ready for a change of pace from 2K, and if Live 13 is anything like Live 10 or Elite (which I think looked very solid in the few videos I've seen from it), then I already know I'm going to be very happy with my purchase. It may not have the animation level of 2K (thank God!), but it will probably have some great controls, fun gameplay, ESPN presentation, Synergy Sports DNA, etc etc. Lots of good stuff for bball heads.Last edited by RandomPerson; 08-28-2012, 04:48 PM.Comment
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Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
I consider 2K8 to be the best game in the 2K series. In that game you could actually control your players. It played a very realistic game of basketball. The more recent 2Ks add more animation and glitz and glamor but lack the substance of the older 2K games. I read in another thread that a 2K employee reportedly admitted that the series has plateaued, and I would definitely agree with that.
Live 10 was brilliant. It played a very solid brand of basketball. And you could actually control your players. Live doesn't have the depth of animation that 2K has but you don't need animations to make a great game. I consider Morrowind for the original XBOX to be a great game, and the animations in that game were considered poor by most. 2K tries to emulate a real basketball game with their breadth of animations but they sacrifice a lot of control and other things in the process. That is why I prefer Live 10 over almost any 2K game I've ever played.
2K6 to 2K8 were some great years for the 2K series. It's been all downhill since then. But like I said before, I still have played most of the recent 2K games and had a blast with them. They are good at what they do. But since Live 10 I have preferred the Live way of doing things over the 2K style, and which is why I'm way more excited for Live 13 than 2K13.
I don't see what's so crazy about that. It's called having an opinion.
Draw these conclusions instead. Animations that sacrifice control are bad. The fewer of those the better. And why wouldn't a diehard basketball fan love the idea of Synergy data which fuels the gameplay. You do realize that those stats and things directly influence the gameplay, right? ESPN Presentation is also huge if you ask me. I'd much rather a realistic television style broadcast than something one of Jay-Z's employees constructed.
The CPU never played realistic, even before 2k added tendancies their CPU played better than Lives with Synergy, and before the tendancies were added to 2k the CPU scored off backdoor passes every posession, yet it still played better than Live. How the hell was it realistic to have the CPU shooting jumpers from 1 foot away from the rim, why was Shaq shooting fade away 15 footers from the post, why was Carlos Boozer facing up and using AI crossovers to get to the basket. You mean to tell me that you think Synergy worked better than 2k's tendancy system. Even without tendancies, 2k's CPU AI played better than Live ever did with Synergy, you have to be borderline ******** to actually compliment the Synergy feature, **** was completely useless.Comment
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Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
Again - Wow! Brilliant? Wow.
I consider Morrowind for the original XBOX to be a great game, and the animations in that game were considered poor by most. 2K tries to emulate a real basketball game with their breadth of animations but they sacrifice a lot of control and other things in the process.
Start of the current gen of system, I remember people CRITICIZING 2K for not doing the "full rewrite" Live supposedly did. It's funny that that was the only period where Live was still outselling 2K. Is THAT what made you happy? Well it apparently didn't make VC happy and they game took another step up. The rest is history.
In terms of sales and critical acclaim, universally, this statement is bunk. Really. You're including a game that many folks consider the greatest sports game of all time. Even if you don't agree with that, it STILL says that the game is FAR from "been all downhill" since 2K8.
and this is based on what? You know NOTHING of Live 13 except what you saw in a "pre-alpha" build and you're the first one to discount that video! You don't see the issue here?
At the end of the day, I don't know why you CONTINUE to attempt to prop up Live by putting down 2K when it's really a losing battle. Just because you think 2K sucks doesn't mean that makes Live better. So kill that noise. Any reply you have to that effect, I'm not going to entertain. If you want to talk Live, I'm in.Last edited by Boilerbuzz; 08-28-2012, 06:03 PM.Comment
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Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
2K8 was a MESS. The dribbler was uncontrollable and could do things completely unrealistically to the point you couldn't guard anyone. For a guy to do a 90deg turn in a 1/10th of a second at full speed was utter bs.
I had the most fun with 2K8 than I have had with any other 2K game, either before or after 2K8. It wasn't perfect but I feel it was the best 2K game I've played.
"Substance". What does that mean? The recent 2Ks have added quite a bit of the nuances of basketball. Is THAT your issue? The play system, for example, has been expanded quite a bit. The post game in 2K10 was ridiculous and has only expanded since then. This isn't "substance" to you? And there you go again with "more animations" as a dig. That's right - animations are bad!
I had the most fun with 2K8 than I have had with any other 2K game, either before or after 2K8. It wasn't perfect but I feel it was the best 2K game I've played.
Really? You're eager to believe anything such as that aren't you. Where is this article? Where is this thread?
Some other thread I was reading, can't remember. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, I still think the series has plateaued.
Again - Wow! Brilliant? Wow.
Yep. Live 10 was the most fun I've had with a basketball game since 2K8. 2K12 would be 3rd on my list, probably tied with 2K7 in terms of fun factor.
See my comment about 2K8. Seems you're one of those guys that - realism be damned, you want do what you want to do regardless if it makes basketball sense or not?
I had the most fun with 2K8 than I have had with any other 2K game, either before or after 2K8. It wasn't perfect but I feel it was the best 2K game I've played.
Nope. But it helps. But forget all of that. Let's say they have the same AMOUNT. The QUALITY of those animations matter as well. And I'd bet you think Live's quality was better, right?
No, 2K is the king of animation. If there's one thing 2K does well, it's animation.
You have no idea how 2K tries to design it's game. You tout Live 10, yet YOUR favorite designer of that game came from and is now BACK at VC. So don't back yourself into a corner.
And your point is? Mike Wang is great, I loved his work with Live 10 and he's good for the 2K series in general.
Again. You've yet to show any true objectivity. I have doubts you truly even TRY to enjoy 2K considering how shallow of a analysis of the game you've given. No offense. All I see is you complaining about animations, looking pretty, and you can't turn 90 degrees in 1 frame.
I played 2K12 for a ridiculous amount of games and had a lot of fun with it. Played 2K11 quite a bit too.
Start of the current gen of system, I remember people CRITICIZING 2K for not doing the "full rewrite" Live supposedly did. It's funny that that was the only period where Live was still outselling 2K. Is THAT what made you happy? Well it apparently didn't make VC happy and they game took another step up. The rest is history.
Uh, okay?
In terms of sales and critical acclaim, universally, this statement is bunk. Really. You're including a game that many folks consider the greatest sports game of all time. Even if you don't agree with that, it STILL says that the game is FAR from "been all downhill" since 2K8.
Sales and critical acclaim. Great. Good for 2K. Last I checked Justin Bieber sold billions of records, does that mean he's the greatest of all time?
This part is obvious to a fault.
and this is based on what? You know NOTHING of Live 13 except what you saw in a "pre-alpha" build and you're the first one to discount that video! You don't see the issue here?
Based on Live 10 and what I saw of Elite 11, and my confidence in EA to deliver a solid product. As well as the few media tidbits I've heard about Live 13.
Come on man. Sure. Have an opinion. Just admit that it's based purely on emotion.
Okay? I'm not getting emotional about anything.
I'm not going to nitpick what you said. And I won't disagree with a statement that's pretty universally accepted. As demonstrated by the changes that have been made to 2K over the past couple of years. Yet, you will continue to attach that stigma to 2K regardless of what they do.
In 2K I don't feel like I can pick apart the defense as well as I'd like to. In Live 10 I ran clinics. I had some success in 2K12 but I still don't like the controls in 2K. Just a small example but even gathering for a jumpshot after you've been moving has been terrible in 2K. I could write a book on the things I don't like about 2K but I'm not going to.
Fuels it HOW is my question. You say it's there. EA says it's there. Yet, anyone that truly knows the game isn't going to bet that it's actually being used the way it's claimed. Or if it makes that much of a difference in the game.
Just an example, but I knew in Live 10 if I drove left and pulled up with Reggie Williams, I would have a much better chance to hit the shot than if I drove right and pulled up. If I drove right I knew I was better off taking it to the rim than pulling up. That type of strategy was missing from 2K games. I used to play games with a buddy online where we would spend 5 minutes studying each other's team's DNA and then try to execute. I would know which side to force guys to, etc. It was brilliant.
Now THAT we can agree on. But I pretty sure this is a 1 year thing and ONLY because Jay-Z is involved. I don't agree with it, but after the tip of the ball, for me, it's all about basketball. THAT is what I care about. And, I do consider myself just a LITTLE bit of a basketball head. Just a little...
At the end of the day, I don't know why you CONTINUE to attempt to prop up Live by putting down 2K when it's really a losing battle. Just because you think 2K sucks doesn't mean that makes Live better. So kill that noise. Any reply you have to that effect, I'm not going to entertain. If you want to talk Live, I'm in.
Who's putting down 2K ? How many times do I have to say I enjoy the 2K series, I've played the games, I've had fun with them, etc. I've just said I preferred other games to 2K and that is what you have a problem with.Comment
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Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
I don't have a problem with what you're saying at all except 2 things:
1. The utter denial of issues in the Live 13 video you saw. Leading to blind faith based on no history of good will from EA.
2. The persistent deflection you employ to defend the dead silence coming out of Florida by crying about controls, lack of Synergy, and abundance of evil animations in 2K.
It's that simple. Here's a secret - I can live a happy life even with those 2 issues.Comment
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Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
Oh God no I think I speak for everybody when I say we want another 2k football game hell give me 2k5 with updated roster you know with the player pictures there updated stats all that and better graphics ill buy that game with no problem madden is cool but 2k should defiantly do another NFL gameI am glad I got the Buell- I love riding it, I love the oddball looks I get on the road- I love people asking "What IS that thing?" I love flying into a corner WAY too hot, scared spitless and sure I'll never hold it at this speed- and hearing the bike whisper "Sissy!"...Comment
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Re: EA should scratch Live 13?
I rarely post... but fluent233, your posts are the epitome of delusion. Whatever you're on might just be too strong and you need to go back on the dose. I don't know how anything you saw in the NBA Live 13 video would lead you to believe it will be a product worth the price of admission.
I was one of those who loved NBA Live 10. I was then treated to a big WTF moment when I played the Elite demo. After seeing the NBA Live 13 video with my friends (some of which are Live die-hards) this was the collective reaction:
The game looks bad, plain and simple. Very rarely does a game look as bad as awful as that and have the final product differ greatly from what we see at pre-release. ESPN presentation does not a good game make. For a game that is out supposedly in the first week of October to still have NO footage is laughable at best, much less one that is trying to win back consumer confidence.
As for whether the game should be scratched, I don't know. EA could release it and get their nose to the grindstone and take the crapstorm of criticism and/or feedback they're sure to get and build a decent followup from there. But hey, that would be ideal, and we don't live in an ideal world.Last edited by Nines; 08-29-2012, 04:17 PM.Rocket Fuel.Comment
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