If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

[tedus]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

I want actually physical reactions, not just character animations playing out. I want to see players actually interact with one-another rather than just an can-animated or a simply bump. There were huge clipping and foot-planting issues in Live 14 and hopefully it gets addressed. I hated when players collided in mid-air and the defender simply slides away in mid-air or when the offensive player either does the dumb double-clutch animation or simply clip through the defender. I hope the programmers take momentum, velocity, and mass into account when programming this game. Simple, just overhaul the damn collision detection. I know it's hard to do, but damn Live 14 was bad in that area.

That' s all I wanted!! Physics!! and collision detection!
Up to now, both bb games do not implemented these properly!!

If the real time physics is into the game, any aspects of gameplay such as offense, defense will change dramatically.

[P-Dub]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

When people ask for physics in general, we end up with elite 11. We have to be more specific when asking for technology. Do you mean more dynamic reactions to collisions without the use of canned animations?

[Mikesthyme]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

Wow.. everyone has been saying gameplay and or animations, sure that's exactly what Live needs.. but lets talk detail first.. How about more Crowd interaction..when the Ref's make a Bad call you hear the fans voice there own opinion chanting BULL **** BULL ****.. lol, ok if we cant have that how about the adding the replay came.. to see if the ball went out of bound or did the buzzer beater beat the clock.. ref's can review the play,, this adds realisam people..or a fan cam... (MLB THE SHOW).. This would add a refreshing addition to presentation.. and also heighten the atmosphere during the games.. i also metioned in another post.. players running out on to the court from there lockers rooms.. these are things we see all the time when we watch actual nba basketball games.. so EA why cant it be" IN THE GAME"???? isnt that your famous slogan???? if its in the game its in the game??

[Haval93]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

When people ask for physics in general, we end up with elite 11. We have to be more specific when asking for technology. Do you mean more dynamic reactions to collisions without the use of canned animations?

Elite 11 was a bad game but had the right idea in towards going to more "physics driven" game. What I mean when I say physics is adding basic collision detection to arms going through bodies, balls going through arms, torso, and legs. This isn't hard to achieve. There are many ways to check for a collision in video games, two of the most common or easy to understand are bounding box collision(A rectangle surrounding your model that checks to see if anything hits the box, which is faster for performance but not very accurate) and distance based collision(where you simply check if the vertices of the model have collide by checking the displacement of the two vertexes; it's slower performance wise but is more accurate).

In my opinion, looking at collision detection within Live 14, it seems that only key points of the body have actual checks and bounds to see if a collision has happened rather than the entire model. I remember when EA was showing Elite 11, they only had collision detection in regards to see if a collision happened between the shoulders and the hips of the character model; which left a lot of area for mishap and bugs. I wonder if it still same with Live 14.

When creating your character model you have three sections or models, the armature model or skeleton model, the actual character model as how you see, and the physics model where you have boxes or different sections to check for collisions. Anyways, so what could be done to fix this. Rather than just saying add more "physics" lol, you can implement a new system that takes into account more areas of the body or model to check for collisions. They can start by simply by making sure players don't clip into one another and the ball doesn't go through the body of the model. From there they can add to the system where they have different reactions to different types of collision.

Anyways, to end, I haven't seen the source code or the systems they have in place so this is just me commenting on the what I would like to see or have seen or observed. Regardless of what they focus on this year, I just hope it's a solid title so we can have two great basketball games to play again.

[P-Dub]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

Right. And I think the issue with that is how the animations should react to those arm collisions. So thinking about that, let's look at a scenario.

Player A is going for a one handed layup, with player B attempting to block that shot. Player B misses the ball and hits the arm of Player A. They would have to program something that causes either the arm of Player B "winning" the collision and continuing his arm swat animation while Player A doesn't continue his arm animation(which is part of an entire body animation, so they would have to separate it from that), and that player would have the ball come loose in some manner or have it affect the shot.

It could be the other way around, with Player A winning the collision and Player B having his arm block animation being modified as Player A continues the layup.

But these win-loss scenarios are not what we want when we talk about physics in collisons are they? Sometimes nobody truly wins a collision, as it's two physical bodies reacting off of each other's forces, so there has to be some middle ground where both animations are adjusted.

How I would do it-

First, you need to know that both 2K and EA have these branching and blending animation technologies. PC modders of NBA Live were able to figure out how to make custom jumpshot animations out of them by editing text files, and eventually did the same for some of 2K's PC version through hex editing.

So, I would make sure every layup/dunk/shot and block animation has the capability to use a branching and blending animation and that there was proper collision detection. Say we had a one-arm layup(or block) animations for multiple degrees based from the shoulder like 90 degrees, 45 degrees, etc. They can calculate the angle and velocity of the block attempt that collides with the arm and choose an animation(for both players) when detecting and predicting the collision.

How physical that animation ends up being is something that they would need to implement as well. They could take that data and ragdoll the whole body a little bit for hard fouls.

[Haval93]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

Right. And I think the issue with that is how the animations should react to those arm collisions. So thinking about that, let's look at a scenario.

Player A is going for a one handed layup, with player B attempting to block that shot. Player B misses the ball and hits the arm of Player A. They would have to program something that causes either the arm of Player B "winning" the collision and continuing his arm swat animation while Player A doesn't continue his arm animation(which is part of an entire body animation, so they would have to separate it from that), and that player would have the ball come loose in some manner or have it affect the shot.

It could be the other way around, with Player A winning the collision and Player B having his arm block animation being modified as Player A continues the layup.

But these win-loss scenarios are not what we want when we talk about physics in collisons are they? Sometimes nobody truly wins a collision, as it's two physical bodies reacting off of each other's forces, so there has to be some middle ground where both animations are adjusted.

How I would do it-

First, you need to know that both 2K and EA have these branching and blending animation technologies. PC modders of NBA Live were able to figure out how to make custom jumpshot animations out of them by editing text files, and eventually did the same for some of 2K's PC version through hex editing.

So, I would make sure every layup/dunk/shot and block animation has the capability to use a branching and blending animation and that there was proper collision detection. Say we had a one-arm layup(or block) animations for multiple degrees based from the shoulder like 90 degrees, 45 degrees, etc. They can calculate the angle and velocity of the block attempt that collides with the arm and choose an animation(for both players) when detecting and predicting the collision.

How physical that animation ends up being is something that they would need to implement as well. They could take that data and ragdoll the whole body a little bit for hard fouls.

I agree. They could look at how FIFA does their collisions because they are really realistic and look amazing in my opinion. Arms collided according and legs interact wonderfully with no clipping. As for lay-up and mid-air collisions, what I think would work is to incorporate momentum, velocity, mass for each part of the model's body part. As in real life, every part of our body has it's own mass, velocity and momentum and we collectively have a mass, velocity, and momentum. So taking into account each variable will have a corresponding game play action. For example, a player is running full speed at another player who is taking a charge and decides to dunk the ball, if the player who's legs are dunking have a greater momentum, then the dunker will push the another player down and continue to dunk. The other case is that the dunker is Steve Nash and person taking the charge is Shaq. Clearly you can tell that Steve Nash's momentum will not be greater than Shaq and thus result in Nash falling back down in mid-air. Obviously their are many situations that you can encounter in a basketball game, but I think if they take this step little by little, they can have a great game that I think will change the landscape of the basketball gaming like FIFA did in FIFA 07 and onward.

[Jay Jay]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

Haval and P-dub you guys said it best and with them sharing technology I don't see why they wouldn't just borrow Fifa physic engine.

[tedus]

If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

I think the physics engine should be in live 15 or live16 because they use the same engine (ignite engine). I remembered EA introduce the engine at last E3. They said the big feature of the engine is share the technique for each dev. So look at the UFC, they use the scanning for each fighter! Now, live 15, FIFA 15 also used it. Base on reasonable guess, the physics engine should be in this game in the future !Let's hope!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El_Poopador]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

I agree. They could look at how FIFA does their collisions because they are really realistic and look amazing in my opinion. Arms collided according and legs interact wonderfully with no clipping. As for lay-up and mid-air collisions, what I think would work is to incorporate momentum, velocity, mass for each part of the model's body part. As in real life, every part of our body has it's own mass, velocity and momentum and we collectively have a mass, velocity, and momentum. So taking into account each variable will have a corresponding game play action. For example, a player is running full speed at another player who is taking a charge and decides to dunk the ball, if the player who's legs are dunking have a greater momentum, then the dunker will push the another player down and continue to dunk. The other case is that the dunker is Steve Nash and person taking the charge is Shaq. Clearly you can tell that Steve Nash's momentum will not be greater than Shaq and thus result in Nash falling back down in mid-air. Obviously their are many situations that you can encounter in a basketball game, but I think if they take this step little by little, they can have a great game that I think will change the landscape of the basketball gaming like FIFA did in FIFA 07 and onward.

This would take a long time and a lot of manpower to program, but the reward would be well worth it. I just imagine a basketball game where we can actually see fouls happening on the court, rather than the completely random foul calls of today. If you take a bad angle toward the shooter and jump at him, you can completely derail him, and we may be able to see flagrant fouls because of it. Then the presentation can go through replays and show and comment on the contact, the adjustment, etc. The potential is astounding, if it can be programmed well.

[Haval93]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

This would take a long time and a lot of manpower to program, but the reward would be well worth it. I just imagine a basketball game where we can actually see fouls happening on the court, rather than the completely random foul calls of today. If you take a bad angle toward the shooter and jump at him, you can completely derail him, and we may be able to see flagrant fouls because of it. Then the presentation can go through replays and show and comment on the contact, the adjustment, etc. The potential is astounding, if it can be programmed well.

It would take time and man-power, but this is EA we are talking about. The largest third party publisher in the world. They have a ton of resources, man-power and not to forget, a huge ton of money to accomplish this. I'm sure they are always investing a ton of money on R&D all the time, why not put some of the money and programmers on a task like this that could have a huge benefit. It's not like EA isn't talented enough, I mean look at the programmers at DICE with the frostbite engine, and EA Canada with FIFA, NHL, and UFC.

[jyoung]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

It needs to be much tougher to get to the rim.

In Live 14, the player has way too many options for getting an easy layup/dunk/trip to the free throw line, any time he wants, with any player on the floor, regardless of the offensive/defensive matchup.

You can:

-- Hold down turbo and blow right by your man
-- Hop step in the direction of the rim, right through your man
-- Post-up spin around your man, dunk over the help defender

Those are just the most common methods you would see online. I'm sure there are more methods, but I stopped trying to play Live 14 online very early on, because the latency is worse than any other game on the PS4, including Battlefield 4, MLB 14 The Show, and NBA 2K14.

[P-Dub]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

I'm pretty sure they have software development projects that are used to improve technology and create these engines that they use to drive the games.

[ifitbeginsitends]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

I just want to be able to CONSISTENTLY pick which hand I finish with at the rim like in live 10
#Simple

[El_Poopador]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

It would take time and man-power, but this is EA we are talking about. The largest third party publisher in the world. They have a ton of resources, man-power and not to forget, a huge ton of money to accomplish this. I'm sure they are always investing a ton of money on R&D all the time, why not put some of the money and programmers on a task like this that could have a huge benefit. It's not like EA isn't talented enough, I mean look at the programmers at DICE with the frostbite engine, and EA Canada with FIFA, NHL, and UFC.

True, they do have the money and resources. But the question is whether they will choose to invest it or not. It's not exactly a back of the box feature, and it seems like that's a lot of where their resources go. If they can't truly market it to a wide audience, they may not feel it's worth doing. We've been asking for WR/DB interaction in Madden for years, but that's still nowhere to be found.

[Haval93]

Re: If you could name ONE Gameplay element that you want to see...

True, they do have the money and resources. But the question is whether they will choose to invest it or not. It's not exactly a back of the box feature, and it seems like that's a lot of where their resources go. If they can't truly market it to a wide audience, they may not feel it's worth doing. We've been asking for WR/DB interaction in Madden for years, but that's still nowhere to be found.

I feel its a back of the box feature. How many games nowadays are touting a new physics engine? Many are. You still see a lot of confusion in what a physics engine or engine for that matter is. Many believe that Live and other games don't have "physics engine" already, this is where EA could take advantage of consumers who don't know much about game development and simply like new visuals and features such as a brand new physics engine. I'm pretty sure that either this year or the next we will get RTP and I'm sure EA will market the hell out of it.