This game is like Whoa!

[Court_vision]

Re: This game is like Whoa!

I think your reasoning is flawed, Monkey. Both games only got halfway to the goal of playing like the NBA. As Ludacris has said several times, Live does have different playsets that are similar to real NBA plays, but they are not set up beforehand like ESPN. Fortunately, Live developers had the forethought to let the user switch to the other side to make changes as he sees fit (for opposite of forethought, see ESPN's lack of timeouts by CPU). I agree with you that it would be better to have real NBA plays and have them already set up, but at least with a little effort you can do something about it. Live also has a primacy rating that ensures that the top scorers for each team get the ball a lot like they should.

The lack of any sort of primacy (or something similar) in ESPN is the reason why I think the game is only halfway to playing more like the NBA. Real plays are great, but they don't mean jack to me if the CPU doesn't use those plays to get the ball into the hands of its star players. I don't see how a game is "more like the NBA" when the star players don't get the ball half the time, the coach fails to call crucial timeouts to stop momentum or move upcourt late in the game, and when wacky trades go on each week. Okay, so that last one wasn't gameplay-related, but it is important and has a very cumbersome workaround.

On the other hand, Live gets the ball in the hands of star players but lacks the same level of variation and authenticity in playsets as ESPN, so it is also only halfway there as well.

I think you have a very narrow idea that simply running NBA plays make a game more NBA-like, when it really takes more than that. Neither game is there yet, but both are fun in their own right. Many people think it is "more like the NBA" to see Shaq get the ball down low all the time even though the Heat may not be running the exact plays that they do in real life. At least he tries to dominate down low, rather than hanging out by the 3pt line.
Your definition of NBA-like may seem clear and clean-cut to *you*, but other people can see your point and reasonably disagree.

A lot of excellet points in there

I agree with you that:

1. Stars play more like stars in LIVE. Yes. (However they get it a tonne in ESPN also...but biorythm alows "other" guys to heat up. Look at Kareem Rush in the WC Finals...7 / 8 three pointers)

2. Shaq *is* Shaq in LIVE.

I can see your point re switching. However, what I was saying is that the sets are 'generic'...ie not team specific...

So 'switching' doesn't give them team specific sets. It gives them *something closer* than dynamic.

I agree with you that "both are half way". I think you just summed it up perfectly.

ESPN does the team stuff better...ie Sac running a perfect baseline screen for Peja.

LIVE does the individual stuff better...ie Kobe iso'd, or Shaq down low.

Really, *both* are excellent in their own way.

There's nothing I can say to counter your arguement re LIVE has season mode / doesn't have f---d up trades and some horrible bugs...

There are ways to 'work around' these...but there not ideal and certainly VC slipped BIG time on these issues.

You are absolutely right...

These may be the deciding factors that lead to me playing a full season in LIVE.

Both games are dramatically better than last year, which is good for all of us ultimately...

[Emjay]

Re: This game is like Whoa!

A lot of excellet points in there

I agree with you that:

1. Stars play more like stars in LIVE. Yes. (However they get it a tonne in ESPN also...but biorythm alows "other" guys to heat up. Look at Kareem Rush in the WC Finals...7 / 8 three pointers)

2. Shaq *is* Shaq in LIVE.

I can see your point re switching. However, what I was saying is that the sets are 'generic'...ie not team specific...

So 'switching' doesn't give them team specific sets. It gives them *something closer* than dynamic.

I agree with you that "both are half way". I think you just summed it up perfectly.

ESPN does the team stuff better...ie Sac running a perfect baseline screen for Peja.

LIVE does the individual stuff better...ie Kobe iso'd, or Shaq down low.

Really, *both* are excellent in their own way.

There's nothing I can say to counter your arguement re LIVE has season mode / doesn't have f---d up trades and some horrible bugs...

There are ways to 'work around' these...but there not ideal and certainly VC slipped BIG time on these issues.

You are absolutely right...

These may be the deciding factors that lead to me playing a full season in LIVE.

Both games are dramatically better than last year, which is good for all of us ultimately...

I have nothing to add to this thread for I am thinking about picking up Live myself. But I just wanted all the "12 year old kids" to look at this post and take note. For all the STFU's and "you don't know what you're talking about" and other smart comments that are made when you don't agree with something, Monkey shows you how while you can be wrong about something, you don't have to have resort to childish comments because you can't express yourself in an dignified manner.

[Emjay]

Re: This game is like Whoa!

A lot of excellet points in there

I agree with you that:

1. Stars play more like stars in LIVE. Yes. (However they get it a tonne in ESPN also...but biorythm alows "other" guys to heat up. Look at Kareem Rush in the WC Finals...7 / 8 three pointers)

2. Shaq *is* Shaq in LIVE.

I can see your point re switching. However, what I was saying is that the sets are 'generic'...ie not team specific...

So 'switching' doesn't give them team specific sets. It gives them *something closer* than dynamic.

I agree with you that "both are half way". I think you just summed it up perfectly.

ESPN does the team stuff better...ie Sac running a perfect baseline screen for Peja.

LIVE does the individual stuff better...ie Kobe iso'd, or Shaq down low.

Really, *both* are excellent in their own way.

There's nothing I can say to counter your arguement re LIVE has season mode / doesn't have f---d up trades and some horrible bugs...

There are ways to 'work around' these...but there not ideal and certainly VC slipped BIG time on these issues.

You are absolutely right...

These may be the deciding factors that lead to me playing a full season in LIVE.

Both games are dramatically better than last year, which is good for all of us ultimately...

I have nothing to add to this thread for I am thinking about picking up Live myself. But I just wanted all the "12 year old kids" to look at this post and take note. For all the STFU's and "you don't know what you're talking about" and other smart comments that are made when you don't agree with something, Monkey shows you how while you can be wrong about something, you don't have to have resort to childish comments because you can't express yourself in an dignified manner.

[Vince]

Re: This game is like Whoa!

monkey i still don't get what ur saying....

live has 1-4 high sets so does espn
espn has motion sets so does espn
live has secondary break sets espn doesn't
live has box sets so does espn
live has flex plays espn does also
live has triangle plays so does espn

again i fail to see your point

[Vince]

Re: This game is like Whoa!

monkey i still don't get what ur saying....

live has 1-4 high sets so does espn
espn has motion sets so does espn
live has secondary break sets espn doesn't
live has box sets so does espn
live has flex plays espn does also
live has triangle plays so does espn

again i fail to see your point

[ludacris06]

Re: This game is like Whoa!

I think he knows the sets are in the game, it;s just the CPU teams don't use them unless they are assigned manualy. I think thats what he means...

[ludacris06]

Re: This game is like Whoa!

I think he knows the sets are in the game, it;s just the CPU teams don't use them unless they are assigned manualy. I think thats what he means...