The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

[ehh]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

I can not touch a ball for a year and start drilling NBA 3 pointers like they're going out of style. Having your elbow in line is the easiest way to be consistent, LeBron James should try it.

Well, that's what the book is about, that the old school conventional style you're talking about isn't the best or easiest method anymore.

Trust me, the last five years I'd scream at LeBron for not having his elbow in (I'm sure there are some posts in the NBA forum you could find of me saying something about it), same with AJ Price at UConn. But look at the the homepage of that website, all those great shooters and none of them ever used the "elbow in line" technique. All those guys are much better shooters than you or I ever were.

Funny thing is, if you watch the NBA these days you're hard pressed to find a 'elbow in line' shooter. Some are more drastic than others (like LeBron) but Derek Fisher and Jason Kapono are probably the only true 'elbow in line' guys left in the league who are quality shooters. If you look at photos of the renown shooters in the league today you aren't gonna see any 'elbow in line' shooters, they're all using the inverted V.











And one college one for the road...




By comparison...Kapono....

[ehh]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

What you're missing it the view of the hoop, I guarantee you his elbow and hand are in line with the basket.

If that's the case then his shoulders/hips/body aren't squared up at all.

[ehh]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

Here's the page from the book you should read, Jet Surfer.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

sometimes players with broad shoulders, and/or muscular chests have a difficult time bringin their elbows all theway in.

i have this problem, although ive somewaht corrected it, and its clearly lebrons problem s well.

our elbows tend to flair out naturally while shooting.

Repetition, repetition, repetition.

Start out a few feet away head on and line up that elbow and hand with the hoop, get used to making the move simple, a drive with the legs and simple flick of the wrist. Since everything (hopefully) is in line you will see your accuracy going up. Keep moving back, if you do it right you will become a shooting robot, your elbow and hand lined up with the hoop and your wrist a simple piston filling the basket over and over.

Even when shooting on the run you will learn to square your shoulders in mid air and line up that piston and flick your wrist.

Once that elbow starts flying you're making all kinds of adjustments and unconsciously wind up pushing the ball with your shoulder muscles, etc. Losing the touch you have with your hand and fingers and bringing in those bigger muscles and making all kinds of adjustments for keeping the ball on line and distance control.

From your hand to your elbow it should feel like a robotic piston that consistently puts the ball on line. From there is the repetition of distance control. If you master that piston, your ball will always have perfect rotation, no matter what angle (fading, sideways) you're shooting from.

That robotic piston from your elbow to your fingertips should become it's own entity that can put a ball on line at will.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

If that's the case then his shoulders/hips/body aren't squared up at all.

Not true, I would need a Madden Telestrator to show you the lines I'm talking about.

[ehh]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

Not true, I would need a Madden Telestrator to show you the lines I'm talking about.

I know the lines your talking about, I went to all the great camps growing up. 5-Star, Eastern Invitational, Dave Hoopla's shooting clinics, etc. Shot over 40% from three in my college career - as an elbow-under-the-ball shooter.

From that photo, if you're saying that his elbow/hand is in line with the rim then his shoulders aren't square, they're aimed differently. We'll just agree to disagree.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on my post about the current NBA players?

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

You can master any style, Jamal Wilkes used to bring the ball behind his head and almost bounce it off his back and shot a corkskrew spinner, and he was a great shooter.

Derek Fisher is an incredible shooter and like you mention one of the few with the elbow in line. If more players could shoot like Derek Fisher, they would be scoring a lot more points. Kobe looks very much in line in that photo.

I would bet you Ray Allen would tell you his release like what I described about the feeling from the elbow to the fingertips, release wise.

We're told that's there's no need for the "old style", yet these guys using the "new style" are the worst generation of shooters I've seen. They should be copying Derek Fisher, not the new style.

As for they all shoot better than you and me, speak for yourself

When I was playing I assure you I had an NBA quality shot. I could always shoot from the first time I picked up a ball. Being obsessive, I mastered shooting. I played with a guy who's friend was involved with the NBA summer pro league, I could have played on the free agent team, I was offered a spot based on the guy vouching for my skill. But in my heart of hearts I knew it wouldn't go any further than that. I deeply regret not going through with it, I was young and broke at the time.

My obsession for perfect form in sports was/is maniacal. Pitching I copied Tom Seaver's motion. I made myself a scratch golfer in one year too.

For the normal basketball player, keeping the elbow and hand in line with the basket will be the quickest way to consistency, any style can be mastered, look at Shawn Marion (yuck).

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

I know the lines your talking about, I went to all the great camps growing up. 5-Star, Eastern Invitational, Dave Hoopla's shooting clinics, etc. Shot over 40% from three in my college career - as an elbow-under-the-ball shooter.

From that photo, if you're saying that his elbow/hand is in line with the rim then his shoulders aren't square, they're aimed differently. We'll just agree to disagree.

Anyway, what are your thoughts on my post about the current NBA players?

I think the "old style" should make a comeback based on the "results" we're seeing. Ray Allen has the ball directly over his head, I had the ball more to the side of my head, like many great shooters from the past.

I think the old style is easier to learn and master once you get the feeling I described of the robotic piston like motion from your elbow to your fingertips. It's just a matter of lining up that piston, even if your body isn't in perfect position you can release that piston.

The further that elbow gets out of line, the more adjustments you're making, let's see some pictures of the follow throughs, I think you'll see things more "in line".

Why have that extra movement to line things up? The less moving parts the better, be it the jump shot, the golf swing, etc.

[ehh]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

We're told that's there's no need for the "old style", yet these guys using the "new style" are the worst generation of shooters I've seen. They should be copying Derek Fisher, not the new style.

It's not really a 'new style', it was just never accepted in the past. You do realize that Larry Bird and Oscar Robertson are two of the people the author discusses the most in the book? Not exactly 'this generation' or 'poor shooters'.

What you mentioned about Ray Allen is the most important part, the release point and follow through are huge. As I said above with K_rob, getting to that perfect release point is the key to it all.

I agree that this generation is the worst shooting one yet but shooting is not the only fundamental that has suffered, they all have across the board. Players rely on athleticism too much these days, that and they probably aren't working on their J as often as they should.

[Jet Sufferer]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

It's not really a 'new style', it was just never accepted in the past. You do realize that Larry Bird and Oscar Robertson are two of the people the author discusses the most in the book? Not exactly 'this generation' or 'poor shooters'.

What you mentioned about Ray Allen is the most important part, the release point and follow through are huge. As I said above with K_rob, getting to that perfect release point is the key to it all.

I agree that this generation is the worst shooting one yet but shooting is not the only fundamental that has suffered, they all have across the board. Players rely on athleticism too much these days, that and they probably aren't working on their J as often as they should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Qn4JjJ_vc

HA! Watch this video, many snapshots of his release, many showing him with the piston lined up and shooting from the side of his head. Notice the elbow position on many of his shots.

Again, it's the position at RELEASE that's most important. I just advocate that elbow be more in all of the time instead of it coming in at release.

[Kashanova]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

I also study the art of the jumpshot and feel that I Have a great jumpshot(usually hit 8 or 9 out of ten around the horn). To me when I first started trying to develop a jumpshot how I held the ball played an important part into the ball going directly to the basket, and the lift and arc played if it was gonna be short or too long or swish. So i feel that your elbow doesnt have to be directly under the ball but if your hand is more or less holding it like this.



See how there's like a cup under the ball. Thats how I hold the ball when im shooting, and i think it's ideal to be holding it like this for the accuracy of the shot.

More examples below





Also this is shooting with the finger tips not the palm.



Here another one. Elbow open a bit but the cup under the ball is present.

[youvalss]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

Do you guys think that if you have a larger hand you can shoot better? I mean, some guys can catch a basketball with one hand and others can't. I have pretty large hands but I still can't hold a ball for more then 3-5 seconds with my hand, and not every ball, some are harder for me to hold. How do you think it effects shooting?

[ehh]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

I think bigger hands help because it gives you more control. From the wrinkle in my wrist to the tip of my middle finger is a little under 9" so I can palm a ball easily and the ball just feels like it sits in my hand perfectly when shooting.

If you're Shaq's size though I can see how that would be a detriment. Dr. J had the freakiest hands, at the Basketball HOF they have hand prints of him that you can stick your hand in, I think from wrinkle-to-tip of middle finger was over 11" for him. Just insane for a 6'6" guy.

[KG]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

I made the HUGE mistake of reading this thread before I hooped last night. I consider myself a pretty good shooter and one thing that a shooter doesn't want to do is think about shooting while you're shooting.

Now I'm sitting here at my desk shooting my imaginary ball.

All Swishes btw

edit: I don't think my release point is high enough. I might be shooting too much from the hip.

[ehh]

Re: The Perfect Jumpshot (book/site)

I made the HUGE mistake of reading this thread before I hooped last night. I consider myself a pretty good shooter and one thing that a shooter doesn't want to do is think about shooting while you're shooting.

That is the worst KG, nothing sucks more than thinking about your J while playing.

Did you change anything on your form or you were just mentally screwed by thinking about your form?