Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

[GSW]

I was having a conversation with a good friend of mine about our basketball games.

And i got to thinking how point guards are basically a non factor within basketball games.

You can play basically any player at PG and have the same amount of success as if you had Jason Kidd, Pete Maravich, Magic Johnson, etc.

Part of the reason is that any player can make any kind of pass in these games, and the only thing that separates a good passer form a bad one in video game land is "fancy pass" animations.

Another is it is sort of hard to quantify "court vision" in video game form.

We ALL know how wrong that is, and i think that the first game that gets what a PG is and how he affects a basketball game right in the video game world will actually push this genre forward innovation wise ( i think its in a rut, which is why we nitpick everything).

I have some ideas i will let flow after the conversation has started...

how do you guys feel about how point guards are done in games, and what could and should be improved to help create a more authentic experience.

[BiggD]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

interesting topic.. the only thing i can really think of is being able to pentrate to the rack or blow by a defender and dish but the more i think about it anyone can do that with the right combo of button/control stick smashing. I think its one thing that can never truely be emulated in a game. There are just too many factors that make a pure PG in real life

[dossier]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

the higher the pass rating: the straighter the pass, the more accurate the pass, the ability to pass to a player far away from the passer, ability to pass with each hand

[flamangatang2k5]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

Good topic/question

Easy answer: Don't allow everyone the ability to make ankle breaking crossovers or hesitation moves. Ramon Sessions is a good PG, but he is a product of the system (as is Chris Duhon in NY), they stand at the top of the key waiting to hit the shooter curling off a screen and get the assist numbers. In NY, they spread the court and run pick'n'roll and the first person Duhon passes to shoots it (if they are open or not they still shoot) and he gets the assist.

PG's in video game should be seperated by handle, passing ability, defense, shooting, and if they can manage to do so playmaking ability.
Most BBall games have this to some extent, it's just not very well executed.

[GSW]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

Good topic/question

Easy answer: Don't allow everyone the ability to make ankle breaking crossovers or hesitation moves. Ramon Sessions is a good PG, but he is a product of the system (as is Chris Duhon in NY), they stand at the top of the key waiting to hit the shooter curling off a screen and get the assist numbers. In NY, they spread the court and run pick'n'roll and the first person Duhon passes to shoots it (if they are open or not they still shoot) and he gets the assist.

PG's in video game should be seperated by handle, passing ability, defense, shooting, and if they can manage to do so playmaking ability.
Most BBall games have this to some extent, it's just not very well executed.

What happens when i put Corey Maggette at PG then?

Thing is Point Guards get the team into thier offense, and are able to deliver passes in the correct spots...create shots for others.

In the game ANYONE with a good handle can do this...ANYONE, and then make a pass to the open man.

[ehh]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

And i got to thinking how point guards are basically a non factor within basketball games.

You can play basically any player at PG and have the same amount of success as if you had Jason Kidd, Pete Maravich, Magic Johnson, etc.

This definitely is not the case with College Hoops 2K8. Having a good point guard, especially on MOP difficultly, makes a huge difference. More passes get stolen with a crappy PG, alley-oop attempts are off the mark and of course the ability to use the dribble to get by a defender are very noticeable. Not to mention if you have a young PG he will miss his fair share of lay ups and open shots, especially on the road.

Seems like the more topics related to basketball video games I read the more I notice that CH2K8 is the best basketball game ever made.

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

You need to watch some old Celtics, lakers games. There were no point guards. Everyone could initiate the offense, bring the ball up etc...

Passing is a skill that needs to be implemented with bad passes, bad catches....etc

I think 2k did this well with dropped passes. Not sure if EA games have this or not but it is a start.

In fact I think for 2k games there is too much court vision. They need to simply make other players less effective rather than making a PG better at something.

[GSW]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

Ok but these games don't have the 80's celtics and the lakers...

it has the twolves and the raptors though.

[BiggD]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

What happens when i put Corey Maggette at PG then?

Thing is Point Guards get the team into thier offense, and are able to deliver passes in the correct spots...create shots for others.

In the game ANYONE with a good handle can do this...ANYONE, and then make a pass to the open man.

Who would put Magg's at point IRL ???? ooooooooh wait,Don Nelson frickin' would!

but i get what your saying..

[alllen]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

In fact ,point guad is not very important!But if you have a good point guid that would be better for your teams!Point guid should also should pass well!

[DC]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

Awareness should be raised/lowered based on WHO is the PG in the game at the time.

[GSW]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

Awareness should be raised/lowered based on WHO is the PG in the game at the time.

I like this Idea.

but then you have to make Awareness do things other than what it does now...

whatever that is.

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

A good point guard matters far more in college than the NBA.

70% of the teams in the NBA have the PG bring the ball up, pass to the star player then space the court and set up for a three point shot.

The reality is every player needs to be differentiated in how they run a pick n roll, how they pass out of a double team, how they see the floor in a fast break.

I don't see where point guards are distinctively different than any other player in the NBA.

If awareness is raised and lowered with the point guard(as DC example) a team with Brevin Knight (who by all accounts is as pure a PG as you get in this league) would get boosts, while a team with Dwayne Wade at SG and Chris Quinn at the PG would not get a boost? Wade is going to create more shots, find more people than Knight could ever do but simply because he is a point guard he would give his team a boost?

I think that the importance of a PG is overrated and the focus should be on seperating good decision makers from bad decision makers. Players that make homerun passes (Jason Kidd) against ultra conservative passers (Jose Calderon). Then add in a turnover element. Some players are high turnover guys because they don't have court vision or awareness (Dwight Howard).

[DC]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

If awareness is raised and lowered with the point guard(as DC example) a team with Brevin Knight (who by all accounts is as pure a PG as you get in this league) would get boosts, while a team with Dwayne Wade at SG and Chris Quinn at the PG would not get a boost? Wade is going to create more shots, find more people than Knight could ever do but simply because he is a point guard he would give his team a boost?

I mean damn can Brevin get the chance to play with a top tier SG so we can make an EVEN comparison?

I am strictly speaking about the PG positon. Not anything else. Playing alongside a great player will create scoring opportunities. That is known. So bringing up D Wade as the SG proved what?

If you have TWO teams with the SAME players. One team is ran by QUinn and the other is ran by Brevin. I believe Brevin will find a way to put his teammates in a better position to succeed than Quinn would. That is why I bring up the idea of playing with a better PG should make the game EASIER for the other players.

THAT is a fair comparision.

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Why do point guards matter so much how how do we translate that in to the game?

I mean damn can Brevin get the chance to play with a top tier SG so we can make an EVEN comparison?

I am strictly speaking about the PG positon. Not anything else. Playing alongside a great player will create scoring opportunities. That is known. So bringing up D Wade as the SG proved what?

If you have TWO teams with the SAME players. One team is ran by QUinn and the other is ran by Brevin. I believe Brevin will find a way to put his teammates in a better position to succeed than Quinn would. That is why I bring up the idea of playing with a better PG should make the game EASIER for the other players.

THAT is a fair comparision.

The comparison is between Wade and Knight. Knight is a pure PG who would give awareness benefits to the team as a whole (according to your awareness boost). Wade would not because he doesn't play this mythical position of PG. That is the comparison.

In the NBA the player with the ball in their hand should dictate how easy they set up teams, not the point guard.

Teams with good point guards do not get as good or easier shots as a team with a low post presence or a 30ppg wing. That just isn't how the NBA works, otherwise guys like Brevin Knight or Rick Brunson would have had a starting gig for the last 10 years.