Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

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  • Air23
    Banned
    • Feb 2003
    • 2502

    #31
    Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

    Originally posted by driddy
    Hakeem was unguardable, and Houston's stifling defense would have ended the Bulls run, if they were able to beat the Knicks. People seem to play revisionist history with MJ as if he won every game. Phil Jackson deserves more credit for keeping a team without MJ so close to the finals.

    Hakeem would have destroyed every big man the Bulls sent his way, and if Jordan came down to double KJ or Maxwell would have nailed the trey. Or if Rodman came down, then Big Shot Rob would have sank the dagger. Dont forget about Otis Thorpe, a true banger who fought for every inch of the paint.

    You ever notice NO big man ever dominated the Bulls?

    Say what you will about Cartwright, but he made sure the opposing big man was held in check. And the Bulls had plenty of centers/forwards to provide fouls (Grant, Williams, King, Perdue to go along with Cartwright for the first 3-peat, Longley, Wennington, Williams (Bison Dele) and Rodman for the second). Hakeem would have gotten worked.

    Pippen would stick Horry and MJ would shut down Maxwell. Paxson would have kept Smith busy, or Harper would have shut him down.

    Bulls in 6.

    Comment

    • Court_vision
      Banned
      • Oct 2002
      • 8290

      #32
      Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

      No way would the 95 Rockets have been beaten.

      Even MJ himself said tha they would have won.

      The BULLS had NO PF / C those years.

      The team Jordan came back to failed...it was ONLY AFTER they added Rodman that they begun the next dynasty.

      No way that 95 Bulls team beats Houston.

      The last Bulls team only JUST got past Utah...who were not in the Rockets class.

      Comment

      • glucklich
        Banned
        • Jun 2004
        • 4272

        #33
        Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

        Originally posted by driddy
        Hakeem was unguardable, and Houston's stifling defense would have ended the Bulls run, if they were able to beat the Knicks. People seem to play revisionist history with MJ as if he won every game. Phil Jackson deserves more credit for keeping a team without MJ so close to the finals.

        Hakeem would have destroyed every big man the Bulls sent his way, and if Jordan came down to double KJ or Maxwell would have nailed the trey. Or if Rodman came down, then Big Shot Rob would have sank the dagger. Dont forget about Otis Thorpe, a true banger who fought for every inch of the paint.
        If Hakeem could have stayed on the court, he may have given the Bulls big men problems but the fact is that Jordan was the ultimate "queen of the chessboard". He could take the ball anywhere, create his own shot and shoot anywhere. He is probably the best player in the history of the league at attacking the basket...youre assuming the perimeter guys could stop Jordan and Pippen from attacking the basket in which case Olajuwon starts accumulating fouls when fouling Jordan/Pippen in the process of giving a 3 point play. The Bulls would have probably loaded up on role players more if Jordan had stayed with the team also, so while Rodman did help in the 2nd 3peat enormously, the Bulls would would have either tried to keep Horace or get someone else had Jordan not retired. If Olajuwon was so unstoppable why didnt he make it to the finals in any year the Bulls were there? Obviously that notion is erroneous for that simple reason.

        Comment

        • Tha_Kid
          All Star
          • Oct 2002
          • 6550

          #34
          Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

          I have a more interesting question: Do you think, if Jordan hadnt retired after the 6th ring, the NBA would have still allowed a lockout to happen?

          Comment

          • glucklich
            Banned
            • Jun 2004
            • 4272

            #35
            Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

            Originally posted by Court_vision

            No way that 95 Bulls team beats Houston.

            The last Bulls team only JUST got past Utah...who were not in the Rockets class.
            OK, remember the question was would the Bulls have won had Jordan not retired. That encompasses different things including whether or not the Bulls would have loaded up more on putting pieces in place to win a title...the commitment to doing this could wane if you no longer have Jordan whereas if you have a chance to win (ie you have Jordan) you remain committed to winning titles. I think the 95 Bulls would have been different if Jordan had his legs under him but in any case, I also think the Bulls would have gone after complimentary pieces aimed at winning.

            As far as that Utah team is concerned, Im not sure Houston was better than 97-98 Utah but I see there are a few here who are wanting to believe that.

            Comment

            • glucklich
              Banned
              • Jun 2004
              • 4272

              #36
              Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

              Originally posted by Tha_Kid
              I have a more interesting question: Do you think, if Jordan hadnt retired after the 6th ring, the NBA would have still allowed a lockout to happen?
              Thats an interesting question to be sure but its also one that might hijack this thread. I dont think there would have been a strike. Jordan really did transcend the sport...he was the cash cow and everyone knew it...when he was gone the landscape drastically changed.

              Comment

              • Vince
                Bow for Bau
                • Aug 2002
                • 26017

                #37
                Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                Those Houston teams had much better supporting casts than the Jizz teams.
                @ me or dap me

                http://twitter.com/52isthemike

                Comment

                • Tha_Kid
                  All Star
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 6550

                  #38
                  Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                  Originally posted by glucklich
                  Thats an interesting question to be sure but its also one that might hijack this thread. I dont think there would have been a strike. Jordan really did transcend the sport...he was the cash cow and everyone knew it...when he was gone the landscape drastically changed.
                  Not to change the topic, but I was thinking about it and when I saw the thread title I was disappointed to find out that wasnt the question being asked...

                  Comment

                  • glucklich
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 4272

                    #39
                    Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                    Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3
                    Those Houston teams had much better supporting casts than the Jizz teams.
                    And the 1995 Rockets also finished 3rd in their division. In fact, their supporting cast was so good that they were a 6 seed.



                    The 1997 and 1998 Utah teams had a .780 and a .756 winning percentage on the season.
                    Last edited by glucklich; 06-23-2005, 01:23 AM.

                    Comment

                    • Air23
                      Banned
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 2502

                      #40
                      Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                      Originally posted by Court_vision
                      No way would the 95 Rockets have been beaten.

                      Even MJ himself said tha they would have won.

                      The BULLS had NO PF / C those years.

                      The team Jordan came back to failed...it was ONLY AFTER they added Rodman that they begun the next dynasty.

                      No way that 95 Bulls team beats Houston.

                      The last Bulls team only JUST got past Utah...who were not in the Rockets class.

                      Please. MJ NEVER said another team would beat his Bulls.

                      Comment

                      • 4BiddenKnight
                        Pro
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 617

                        #41
                        Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                        I know this sounds stupid but why did Jordan retire for the 1st time?

                        Anyways, Rodman would frustrate the Dream like how he would against any other centers (Mourning is 1 example, can't remember others) and throw his game off. MJ would just have a walk in the park against the Houston D since he's in his prime and still progressingly better. So I would say the Bulls can win 8 straight.

                        Comment

                        • johnny_park
                          Rookie
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 355

                          #42
                          Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...



                          No Bull? Rockets say they still would have won like Mike
                          By FRAN BLINEBURY
                          Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

                          Ten years later and it's still there, hanging over their legacy.

                          In the two years when the Rockets won their back-to-back championships, Michael Jordan was off pursuing a baseball career and then making his first NBA comeback.

                          The critics contend that those championship banners would not be flying in Houston and the Chicago Bulls might have won eight titles in a row.

                          The Rockets themselves would have loved to have proven everybody wrong.

                          "There should be no doubt or label of fluke on our championships," said Hakeem Olajuwon. "As for Michael Jordan, a lot of people don't know and never looked up our matchups with Chicago during that time. If you check the records, you'll see that we beat them on a consistent basis when Michael was playing and winning his first three championships.

                          "(Vernon) Maxwell guarded Michael and gave him problems. In '95, we would have had Mario Elie on him. They didn't have anyone who could contain me. Chicago was never a problem for us. We always looked forward to playing them. A lot of people don't realize that."

                          The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

                          After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

                          Head coach Rudy Tomjanovich is philosophical.

                          "It's one of those things, a good sports debate," he said. "But we don't have to apologize to anybody. I've actually talked to Michael about that topic several times. He's always told me he thought those would have been some helluva playoff series."

                          Elie is defiant.

                          "That's the one thing that still sticks with me and bothers me, not getting to play Chicago in the Finals," he said. "Hey, it's not our fault that Jordan wasn't there. We're not the ones who told him to go try baseball.

                          "We had a team that lined up against anybody and could beat anybody out there. I always wanted the challenge of going against 'the greatest' in the Finals. If there's a gap, that's it. That we didn't get to play them. But there's nobody that can tell me we couldn't play with them.

                          "Hey, that's my biggest regret about that John Stockton shot that went in for Utah in '97. I was ready to play Chicago that year. With Dream, Clyde (Drexler) and Charles (Barkley), we'd have beaten them then, too."

                          Comment

                          • Taur3asi3
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 3727

                            #43
                            Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                            Originally posted by 4BiddenKnight
                            I know this sounds stupid but why did Jordan retire for the 1st time?
                            Alot of people think he was suspended for a year due to gambling and they just said he was retiring since he was their biggest star and didnt want a pete rose situation.

                            edit: heres an artical about it
                            As Shaquille O'Neal left the Suns practice court, he yelled out, "Alvin's the coach. We must be the Clippers. And I must be Olowokandi. Nooooo!"

                            Comment

                            • Court_vision
                              Banned
                              • Oct 2002
                              • 8290

                              #44
                              Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                              Originally posted by Air23
                              Please. MJ NEVER said another team would beat his Bulls.
                              He's said in several interviews that it was "Hakeems time" and that the Bulls would not have won 5 straight.

                              People conveniently forget that MJ played most of the 95 season and all the play offs...and that Orlando decimated them.

                              MJ then demanded a PF was added after Horace Grant killed them in that series...an old Bull.

                              Horace Grant killed them...so I'm sure Hakeem would have destroyed them.

                              The Bulls were a great team...but their time was up.

                              Realising that forced them to add Rodman.

                              They also got lucky that the Shaq - Penny combo was ruined by injury and greed.

                              Comment

                              • Court_vision
                                Banned
                                • Oct 2002
                                • 8290

                                #45
                                Re: Had Jordan not retired the first time do you think...

                                Originally posted by johnny_park
                                http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/rssstory...bk/bkn/3221857



                                "There should be no doubt or label of fluke on our championships," said Hakeem Olajuwon. "As for Michael Jordan, a lot of people don't know and never looked up our matchups with Chicago during that time. If you check the records, you'll see that we beat them on a consistent basis when Michael was playing and winning his first three championships.

                                "(Vernon) Maxwell guarded Michael and gave him problems. In '95, we would have had Mario Elie on him. They didn't have anyone who could contain me. Chicago was never a problem for us. We always looked forward to playing them. A lot of people don't realize that."

                                The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

                                After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

                                .
                                EXACTLY

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