Better players in his day!

**bball_1523** · 12-19-2005, 12:21 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

I agree with him. I can't stand all the show boating that goes on with the NBA. I like the intensity of college/high school basketball. I think old school nba closely resembles that.

**Vince** · 12-19-2005, 12:24 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

The athleticism is not close, but I agree with talent being inferior. That has to do with lack of fundamentals being taught. Some players have such horrible basketball IQ's(Francis, S-Jax, Q-Rich etc.)

**Blaxican8504** · 12-19-2005, 12:29 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

I agree with him. I dont even watch the NBA anymore. Its just too hard for me to watch.

**Sarah** · 12-19-2005, 12:42 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3

The athleticism is not close, but I agree with talent being inferior. That has to do with lack of fundamentals being taught. Some players have such horrible basketball IQ's(Francis, S-Jax, Q-Rich etc.)

Yeah, and to think Francis is considered one of NBA's star players. It is all Sterns fault. He tried to fixed something that was never broken and added something that was never needed. Pretty soon, players can't wear underwear anymore.

**X*Cell** · 12-19-2005, 12:50 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

Originally posted by Sarah

Yeah, and to think Francis is considered one of NBA's star players. It is all Sterns fault. He tried to fixed something that was never broken and added something that was never needed. Pretty soon, players can't wear underwear anymore.

you would like that

... jk jk...

I love the NBA... I support it 100%, but the way players play, I do agree... everything has changed. Integrity is gone, and flossin'/money whores have taken over...

In fairness I would have to attribute the drive of the players in the 80's being higher than the current times just by percentage...

maybe because you have 7 more teams now-a-days... you get that extra 84 guys who don't give a crap... and even more, because some of the other players are facing those new bottom-of-the-barrel teams, and not trying.

**HMcCoy** · 12-19-2005, 02:14 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

Easy recipe for returning to old-school basketball.

1. Make all kids finish at least 2 years of college..and if their not smart enough for college, oh well. Off to Burger King witcha'..regardless of talent.

2. Add another 2 refs per game...keep the calls consistent (eliminate travelling, overly physical D, carrying etc)

3. Contract the Cats, Grizz, Heat, Wolves, Hornets, Magic, And Raps, and redistribute all those stars and good role players to the rest of the league.

4. Ban all national media exposure besides print...eliminate the constant glorification of individuality and flashy play .

All these things bring in cash. Think the NBA is willing to sacrifice these dollars for the good of the game?

edit: Good post xcell...you stole some of my thunder.

**Vince** · 12-19-2005, 07:26 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

3. Contract the Cats, Grizz, Heat, Wolves, Hornets, Magic, And Raps, and redistribute all those stars and good role players to the rest of the league.

Please tell me your joking... the Heat? The Raptors are a pathetic excuse for a Bball team right now, yet there Attendence is still better than Indiana, Denver, Philly, Portland and Houston.

**ehh** · 12-19-2005, 09:10 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

Originally posted by Vinceanity2k3

Please tell me your joking... the Heat? The Raptors are a pathetic excuse for a Bball team right now, yet there Attendence is still better than Indiana, Denver, Philly, Portland and Houston.

I think he was just making a point about there being too many teams in the NBA, which I totally agree with. The talent level is watered down cause there are too many teams. It would have been the same 25 years ago if there were this many teams.

And also, the fundamentals aren't there and the hunger like the guy being quoted said isn't there either.

But the athleticism is way better, and the "talent" certainly has the potential to be better. There could easily be five KG's in the League right now if these kids had any fire in their bellies. Instead of being pushed and being developed while growing up, they had their ego's inflated to insane heights by scumbag AAU coaches who were trying to get rich off them. They filled these kids' heads with the idea that they were that good and didn't have to work hard to improve, telling the kids whatever they wanted to hear.

And that gives us kids like Jonathan Bender, who's career we hardly knew, and will be out of the League by age 25. And that's also why we have kids like Dwayne Wade who weren't billed as the "second coming" tearing up the league, cause they're working a thousand times harder than the kids getting a piece of the national spotlight in HS. They weren't given anything, they earned everything they have.

**EWRMETS** · 12-19-2005, 11:20 AM

Re: Better players in his day!

Originally posted by xcelldarim31

Link

Michael Ray Richardson:

Let me first point out that I go to nearly everyone of the Albany Patroons games... this is one of the only few good teams around the area... they haven't been around since 1994... I am really into it, now that I get the chance of watching some kind of pro-ball (CBA).

I thought these were pretty powerful statements... People claim that the talent only gets better and better as the years pass... Richardson claims that during his era was the best, and now its just garbage compared to it. Does that ruin the merit of some of today's players vs. guys of the 80's?... I'm sure this raises lots of discussion... I am also expecting to hear "what does this druggy know?"... people... he's off the drugs now.

What do you guys think?

P.S. ... GO PATROONS!!!

His name, oddly enough, is not Michael but Micheal.

**glucklich** · 12-19-2005, 12:06 PM

Re: Better players in his day!

I agree. The skill level was much more refined back in the day. Also, teams ran offenses and it wasnt as much of this isolations nonsense. There was more movement without the ball and such. Players then were also much more savvy.

**Brankles** · 12-19-2005, 12:10 PM

Re: Better players in his day!

I disagree on the talent level comment.

What's gotten better in the NBA since the 80's?
1.) Speed
2.) Strength
3.) Leaping Ability
4.) Defense

The combination of these four things, plus the new NBA rules, may make it appear that guys aren't as good. It's tougher to get shots off. Defenses rotate quicker. MUCH bigger players are more physical than those same positions were in the 80's.

If you go and watch old tapes of early 90s/late 80s basketball... the defense being played is much more slack. There is usually a good 3 foot in between the defender and the man in possession with the ball.

Anyways... have the top 30 players in the NBA today and put them in a time machine back into 1985, and these guys would make their marks. They wouldn't destroy the competition, but they would be better than they are right now. I just can't see anyone from the eighties saying guys like Nash, Iverson, Arenas, Baron Davis, TMac, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Brand, Stoudemire, etc. wouldn't be that good, and lack desire.

I just think it's a different era of basketball, and pretty hard to compare. The game was played differently, but the talent was not better than today's. Of course there were your Jordans, Birds, Johnsons, KAJs, Isaiah Thomases, Hakeems, and Drexlers... those guys are legends... but I don't see how you can say the league as a whole was superior in talent.

Holla

**Graphik** · 12-19-2005, 12:36 PM

Re: Better players in his day!

Originally posted by Brankles

I disagree on the talent level comment.

What's gotten better in the NBA since the 80's?
1.) Speed
2.) Strength
3.) Leaping Ability
4.) Defense

The combination of these four things, plus the new NBA rules, may make it appear that guys aren't as good. It's tougher to get shots off. Defenses rotate quicker. MUCH bigger players are more physical than those same positions were in the 80's.

If you go and watch old tapes of early 90s/late 80s basketball... the defense being played is much more slack. There is usually a good 3 foot in between the defender and the man in possession with the ball.

Anyways... have the top 30 players in the NBA today and put them in a time machine back into 1985, and these guys would make their marks. They wouldn't destroy the competition, but they would be better than they are right now. I just can't see anyone from the eighties saying guys like Nash, Iverson, Arenas, Baron Davis, TMac, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Brand, Stoudemire, etc. wouldn't be that good, and lack desire.

I just think it's a different era of basketball, and pretty hard to compare. The game was played differently, but the talent was not better than today's. Of course there were your Jordans, Birds, Johnsons, KAJs, Isaiah Thomases, Hakeems, and Drexlers... those guys are legends... but I don't see how you can say the league as a whole was superior in talent.

Holla

Good post.

I just have to say that the thing that is killing the game is the individualization of the players. Teams are'nt marketed anymore. Instead its T-Mac vs Vince Carter or Shaq vs Kobe and that right there creates the ego driven personas of the players nowadays. The way Stern markets, he lets the superstars know that they are the sole reason why anyone comes to the game. The solereason why the team gets national coverage and the solereason why ppl even watch the NBA.

Thats because T-Mac and the rest of the superstars are entities by themselves. It does'nt matter what jersey they wear since they move around so much nowadays. Stern has got no reason to market teams since they'll be hot one year and suck the next when a superstar comes and goes.

This individualization is what is driving todays players as they all are starting to develope the me first attitude where if one guy has a sneaker contract, everybody pretty much wants one. If they cant thrive in such n such city, they can thrive in another. This creates a trickling effect as more and more me-first players come into the league with endorsment dreams in they're eyes and lack of real bball IQs. Plus lets not forget that this is the players teams want nowadays. Some teams would very much rather draft a Lebron instead of a Tim Duncan because Lebron is more marketable. Even though the Duncan fella may be the better overall player.

As for the athletic comparisons for todays players vs the 80s players. Robinson said it best himself,
"They aren't as hungry as players were in my day. A lot of them don't want to work."
He could'nt be more correct. Players are'nt hungry anymore because they're given everything including the world before they play they're first game. Some players dont have to prove a thing on the court anymore. We all asses players by how big they're contracts are and not what they did on the court. How can you be hungry when you got millions in lucritive deals on the table and endorsers pulling you in every direction? No, you dont need a ring and a championship banner to be successful in the NBA, all you need is some potential and a marketable face.....then you've got it made.

Goodbye small city with championship caliber talent.....Hello big market city with a team full of scrubs so I can inflate my stats and gain endorsments.....

**glucklich** · 12-19-2005, 12:42 PM

Re: Better players in his day!

Originally posted by Brankles

I disagree on the talent level comment.

What's gotten better in the NBA since the 80's?
1.) Speed
2.) Strength
3.) Leaping Ability
4.) Defense

The combination of these four things, plus the new NBA rules, may make it appear that guys aren't as good. It's tougher to get shots off. Defenses rotate quicker. MUCH bigger players are more physical than those same positions were in the 80's.

If you go and watch old tapes of early 90s/late 80s basketball... the defense being played is much more slack. There is usually a good 3 foot in between the defender and the man in possession with the ball.

Anyways... have the top 30 players in the NBA today and put them in a time machine back into 1985, and these guys would make their marks. They wouldn't destroy the competition, but they would be better than they are right now. I just can't see anyone from the eighties saying guys like Nash, Iverson, Arenas, Baron Davis, TMac, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Brand, Stoudemire, etc. wouldn't be that good, and lack desire.

I just think it's a different era of basketball, and pretty hard to compare. The game was played differently, but the talent was not better than today's. Of course there were your Jordans, Birds, Johnsons, KAJs, Isaiah Thomases, Hakeems, and Drexlers... those guys are legends... but I don't see how you can say the league as a whole was superior in talent.

Holla

Players are more athletic but players back then were better shooters. The NBA has been recruiting more raw talent than polished skills. One thing that you neglected to mention was that the Pistons of the late 80s redefined what a foul is/was. They started playing uberaggressive defense and frequently committed what, up to that point, had been considered fouls but it was happening with such frequency that the refs had to choose between calling all fouls as they had been called before and stop the game every 10 seconds OR they could only call the more severe fouls and maintain the flow of the game where blowing the whistle was concerned. They chose the latter and redefined what a foul was. So bascially, youre observation that they play "lax" defense might be attributable to the fact that they called fouls more stringently.

**Kashanova** · 12-19-2005, 12:46 PM

Re: Better players in his day!

i think lebron would own any of the defenders back then cause most of them didn't work out and such and lebron's strength is just incredible

Better players in his day!

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