Better players in his day!

[glucklich]

Re: Better players in his day!

i think lebron would own any of the defenders back then cause most of them didn't work out and such and lebron's strength is just incredible

Lebron is an exceptional player. No doubt about it.

[ehh]

Re: Better players in his day!

I disagree on the talent level comment.

What's gotten better in the NBA since the 80's?
1.) Speed
2.) Strength
3.) Leaping Ability
4.) Defense

The combination of these four things, plus the new NBA rules, may make it appear that guys aren't as good. It's tougher to get shots off. Defenses rotate quicker. MUCH bigger players are more physical than those same positions were in the 80's.

I think the increase in those four things hurts players as well. Nowadays players are so insanely gifted athletically that more players try to get by just on their God-given gifts. Instead of working their *** off in the gym on their fundamentals or jumper, they'll shrug it off and say "Whatever, I can out jump him, I'm quicker than him, I'll just glide to the hoop and dunk." Note: **That only applies to younger players, not cats in the League cause they do work their behinds off** Then when these kids get to the League and they can't just "out athletic" their opponent they're dead in the water.

Back in the day, players couldn't dunk like crazy, couldn't do insane crossovers, etc so they had no choice: they had to have an ill J to survive. Or they had to be able to set a screen or be a great passer or know how to run an offense. Know how to box out and not just leap over people to grab a board.

Now it's all about athleticism. That's what coaches want because they believe they can teach them the fundamentals and turn them into a great all-around player. That's why Rudy Gay might be the #1 pick in the NBA Draft in June. Yet there is no way that you can say he's a better player than Adam Morrison right now. But coaches think since Gay has all the athleticism in the world that they can turn him into a great player.

I saw Rick Pitino speak once when I went to a Five-Star camp in HS and even he said it, "Give a me 6'6" 220 kid with a 40" vert and who will run through a brick wall for me and I'll turn him into an All-American."


Just to put things in perspecitve, imagine what the game would look like today if they raised the hoops to 11 feet.

[RubenDouglas]

Re: Better players in his day!

its weird... talent is UP, but work ethic is down.. imagine if the ethic was Stable... games would be fun to watch

[X*Cell]

Re: Better players in his day!

Just to put things in perspecitve, imagine what the game would look like today if they raised the hoops to 11 feet.

The pure-dunkers would be eliminated... and it would come down to who can shoot...

I think the game would be again dominated by the big man... especially the ones who pull down offensive boards...

Your new NBA MVP.... "ZAZA PACHULIA!!!"

[Tmacattack]

Re: Better players in his day!

The pure-dunkers would be eliminated... and it would come down to who can shoot...

I think the game would be again dominated by the big man... especially the ones who pull down offensive boards...

Your new NBA MVP.... "ZAZA PACHULIA!!!"

actually there are quite a few people who would still be able to dunk regularly, and the nets tht high still wouldn't completely get rid of people who drive more often than othres, i mean layups should still be made regularly

[Brankles]

Re: Better players in his day!

I think the increase in those four things hurts players as well. Nowadays players are so insanely gifted athletically that more players try to get by just on their God-given gifts. Instead of working their *** off in the gym on their fundamentals or jumper, they'll shrug it off and say "Whatever, I can out jump him, I'm quicker than him, I'll just glide to the hoop and dunk." Note: **That only applies to younger players, not cats in the League cause they do work their behinds off** Then when these kids get to the League and they can't just "out athletic" their opponent they're dead in the water.

Back in the day, players couldn't dunk like crazy, couldn't do insane crossovers, etc so they had no choice: they had to have an ill J to survive. Or they had to be able to set a screen or be a great passer or know how to run an offense. Know how to box out and not just leap over people to grab a board.

Now it's all about athleticism. That's what coaches want because they believe they can teach them the fundamentals and turn them into a great all-around player. That's why Rudy Gay might be the #1 pick in the NBA Draft in June. Yet there is no way that you can say he's a better player than Adam Morrison right now. But coaches think since Gay has all the athleticism in the world that they can turn him into a great player.

I saw Rick Pitino speak once when I went to a Five-Star camp in HS and even he said it, "Give a me 6'6" 220 kid with a 40" vert and who will run through a brick wall for me and I'll turn him into an All-American."


Just to put things in perspecitve, imagine what the game would look like today if they raised the hoops to 11 feet.

I see your point... But you're also saying that these young athletes eventually develop into mature basketball players in the professional league... that these insane athletes turn into well-rounded defenders, shooters and ball players.

Examples of developed (or soon to develop) raw athletic talents:
Gilbert Arenas
Richard Jefferson
Jason Richardson
Amare Stoudemire
Shawn Marion
Dwight Howard
Andre Iguodala

I can acknowledge that these guys weren't absolute beasts in their first or second seasons... but now they're some of the most complete players in the league.


Holla

[HMcCoy]

Re: Better players in his day!

I gotta say, this is an excellent thread...great points all around.

[Vince]

Re: Better players in his day!

The BIGGEST problem I see is players taking bad shots. And this goes back to the low bball IQ factor and then I have to look at the Q's, the S-Jax's, the Francis'. I don't know what it is, but this is what hurts the game

[Vince]

Re: Better players in his day!

Now it's all about athleticism. That's what coaches want because they believe they can teach them the fundamentals and turn them into a great all-around player. That's why Rudy Gay might be the #1 pick in the NBA Draft in June. Yet there is no way that you can say he's a better player than Adam Morrison right now. But coaches think since Gay has all the athleticism in the world that they can turn him into a great player.

I'll go with the guy who has actually basketball skills. Like Dicky V says, this isn't track and field. Enough of the verts and wingspans and see if these guys can actually set picks and learn a flex offense without being lost.

[fsquid]

Re: Better players in his day!

My idea would be to get rid of guaranteed contracts. If you can play, you will get paid, if you suck, you will be waived.

[Air23]

Re: Better players in his day!

I think he was just making a point about there being too many teams in the NBA, which I totally agree with. The talent level is watered down cause there are too many teams. It would have been the same 25 years ago if there were this many teams.

And also, the fundamentals aren't there and the hunger like the guy being quoted said isn't there either.

But the athleticism is way better, and the "talent" certainly has the potential to be better. There could easily be five KG's in the League right now if these kids had any fire in their bellies. Instead of being pushed and being developed while growing up, they had their ego's inflated to insane heights by scumbag AAU coaches who were trying to get rich off them. They filled these kids' heads with the idea that they were that good and didn't have to work hard to improve, telling the kids whatever they wanted to hear.

And that gives us kids like Jonathan Bender, who's career we hardly knew, and will be out of the League by age 25. And that's also why we have kids like Dwayne Wade who weren't billed as the "second coming" tearing up the league, cause they're working a thousand times harder than the kids getting a piece of the national spotlight in HS. They weren't given anything, they earned everything they have.

Gotta disagree with you on the athleticism being way better and talent being potentially better (and that's THE major problem of the NBA today--paying players on "potential").

You name any and all of the most athletic players today, and I can easily match them against players from the 80's and early 90's.

[Air23]

Re: Better players in his day!

i think lebron would own any of the defenders back then cause most of them didn't work out and such and lebron's strength is just incredible

There's more to defense than just strenth and power.

Lebron would have a hard time against the likes of Michael Cooper and Alvin Robertson (who used to work out with his college football team).

[Air23]

Re: Better players in his day!

My idea would be to get rid of guaranteed contracts. If you can play, you will get paid, if you suck, you will be waived.

Could not agree more.

[glucklich]

Re: Better players in his day!

Could not agree more.

If GMs are so devoted to projects, how would NG contracts change anything?

[ehh]

Re: Better players in his day!

You name any and all of the most athletic players today, and I can easily match them against players from the 80's and early 90's.

Sure, the most athletic players you can match them up with Jordan & Wilkins to LeBron and Jason Richardson or whatever, but the overall, all-around athleticism of the league is better now. The 8th and 9th man nowadays, waaaaaaay better athletes than 20 years ago, plus immensly stronger.

Hell, even look at the players that played during the transition time, Jordan and Barkley and Ewing. Look at those players when they came outta college and then again when they retired. Their bodies changed 100%.


Plus you didn't have the versatile freaks back then. There weren't 6'11" three-point threats on half the teams in the 80's. Nore did you have the bodybuilder types you have now. Everyone was a stick back in the day. You didn't see guards that looked like linebackers in the 70's and 80's. Players like Lamar Odom, Tracey McGrady, Kevin Garnett, etc did not exist until the last 10 years.

Look at Kareem's last game at UCLA, then his last game as a Laker. Minus the lack of hair and goggles, his body hardly changed.