Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

[darkeim]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

No one is saying that and if was true then there wouldn't be teams using(mostly wasting) high draft picks on these european players.

That's an overstatement. Most wasted high NBA draft picks are homegrown ESPN highlight reel dunk machines who can't shoot and can't or won't move without the ball.

[jmood88]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

That's an overstatement. Most wasted high NBA draft picks are homegrown ESPN highlight reel dunk machines who can't shoot and can't or won't move without the ball.

Of course since there are more american players in the draft there are going to be more busts. Please show me how many heralded european players have done anything in the league.

[darkeim]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

Of course since there are more american players in the draft there are going to be more busts. Please show me how many heralded european players have done anything in the league.

What's your definition of "anything" or "heralded." According to you, homegrown NBA players are "light years" ahead of everyone else, so there's no need for me to list a Euro player who has done "anything" since NBA athletes are superhuman machines (light years ahead) who can't be beaten (oops). Most of the "heralded" players in the Draft are American players. Rarely is a Euro player touted as the second coming or placed ahead of an American who is "light years" ahead. People's personal biases come out when those player's names are mentioned amongst the "elite" homegrown players. Hell the NBA just started it's infllux of European players in recent years. Give them a chance to prove something against the "light year" guys.

Furthermore, the NBA isn't even suited for international players. NBA fans want to see dunks and fancy dribbling. Real basketball is not marketable anymore. I see that in these forums when I read people say dumb things about Dirk Nowitzki while he is being considerred an MVP candidate. The fact that you think Euro players don't do enough in the league is irrelevant because the NBA game has declined and it is not viewed in the same light as it has been by Euro Players, NBA analysts and previous NBA players. Only the diehard, nothings wrong, Lebron will posterize any Euro fans think the NBA is the same product it was in the early 90's. That's why we keep taking L's overseas. Nobody fears the NBA. They know if they come out and play hard they have a chance. Oh I forgot, those games don't count for one reason or another since our superhuman athletes either were too tired or lacked team chemistry.

[jmood88]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

What's your definition of "anything" or "heralded." According to you, homegrown NBA players are "light years" ahead of everyone else, so there's no need for me to list a Euro player who has done "anything" since NBA athletes are superhuman machines (light years ahead) who can't be beaten (oops).

When exactly did I say all of that? It's funny though that people always want to talk about how much better european players are but when they get over here they rarely actually do anything, except for a rare few.

[darkeim]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

When exactly did I say all of that? It's funny though that people always want to talk about how much better european players are but .

You're right. You never said that. Just like I never said "how much better european players are." I'm saying that fundamentals are lost on NBA players while Euro players embrace fundamental basketball. That's getting us beaten overseas.

A rare few do contribute in the NBA because very few get drafted.

...when they get over here they rarely actually do anything, except for a rare few.

Yeah, when we go over there we're getting beaten by "inferior" talent. Like I said, the NBA isn't the same game anymore. It's ISO, dribble, drive, dunk or miss free throw etc.

[Pujols91]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

Yeah, when we go over there we're getting beaten by "inferior" talent.

But that's the truth though, we are more talented than they are. It's just that the european game revolves around 5 guys, ours tends to revolve around 2 or 3.

The fact is, that basketball is a team sport and why we expect to win when we send over a group of individuals is beyond me. The Euros have played together for years and know each others game, however our guys have one month of their offseason to prepare, and some of our best players don't even bother making the trip. We need to change our system for these type of things.

[MassNole]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

But that's the truth though, we are more talented than they are. It's just that the european game revolves around 5 guys, ours tends to revolve around 2 or 3.

We are more athletic, but not more talented. I don't know when talent got bastardized as being athleticism vs. having skills at the game, but that is a fallacy. We are not more talented anymore.

[Pointguard]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

Team Chemistry? What does that have to do with the Free Throw line? Anyone who watched and studied basketball knows that making free throws is huge. Look at some of the statistics for the games we've lost where we've doubled the amount of free throws taken by the other team but can't shoot 60%. It also has everything to do with desire. Excluding this year's WBC USA team the last few teams we've sent were loafing in plenty of those games. Talented, fundamentaled or not if you've volunteered to go over and play you should probably play hard. The guy that's scrapping is going to win.

Nobody was making the excuse that those Euro teams were together longer or that we lacked "team chemistry" when we were blowing them out for years. What's wrong now?

And if we're still "light years" ahead of Euro basketball then the games should never be close. In the early 90's we were light years ahead. That's over.

Im not making excuses for anyone. All I know if put the Miami Heat and Euro's best club team in a best of 7 series and I'm willing to bet it goes 4 games. You're right players should have more fire and fight playing against Euro teams if they signed up and focus more, but the botton line is they dont. Find the NBA's best team and put them in a championship game where the stakes are great, and we'll see then.

And close games show nothing about how good a team is. Sure Euro clubs could come over here and give the NBA hell in games with their dedication and such, but through 82 games, I dont see them being more than a 30-35 win team, and in the lottery.

[darkeim]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

Im not making excuses for anyone. All I know if put the Miami Heat and Euro's best club team in a best of 7 series and I'm willing to bet it goes 4 games. You're right players should have more fire and fight playing against Euro teams if they signed up and focus more, but the botton line is they dont. Find the NBA's best team and put them in a championship game where the stakes are great, and we'll see then.

And close games show nothing about how good a team is. Sure Euro clubs could come over here and give the NBA hell in games with their dedication and such, but through 82 games, I dont see them being more than a 30-35 win team, and in the lottery.

I agree that a Euro club would probably lottery unless it was a good EURO national team like Spain or Argentina. I think those teams would make the playoffs. They would certainly beat the Knicks. I also agree that an NBA championship team would probably be a good idea.

It should also be noted that a lot if not all of those Euro clubs (not the national teams) have American players on them.

[Vince]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

We are more athletic, but not more talented. I don't know when talent got bastardized as being athleticism vs. having skills at the game, but that is a fallacy. We are not more talented anymore.

Thank you...Everyone should read that

[TruFunkSoldier]

Re: Clippers blown out by CSKA Moscow

I think there's two points being argued here: 1) US vs the World and 2) NBA vs Euro leagues

1) The best players in the world are still US born - Lebron, Kobe, Wade, KG, Shaq, etc. I don't think there is a professional athlete who could beat these guys 1v1. If there were, they'd be here, in the NBA.

But, the rest of the world is right there. A guy like Dirk might be the MVP this season (and could have won last season), and a foreign born player has been the MVP each of the last two seasons. BUT thats been the case for a long time. Duncan is a foreigner and Hakeem was too. I loved watching the Dream play and he was easily the best player in the NBA outside of Jordan (especially 1993-95). I didn't care that he wasn't US born and I don't think it was even an issue back then.

There are outstanding athletes from all over the world and over the last 10 years there have probably been many changes (like new stadiums and professional leagues, etc.) that have allowed them to ascend to NBA level. It's because of the NBA and players like Jordan that the world fell in love with basketball. In the next 10 years, things might change, but right now the best players are still from here.

2) The NBA is by far the best league in the world. The playoffs last year were the best playoffs i've seen in years, maybe the best i've ever seen. Every game was competitive and fun to watch. And they were playing as teams. The Suns, Mavs, Bulls, Pistons, Spurs, Clippers, Heat....they played team basketball with good D, good fundamentals, and all that. Even the Lakers played team ball and people were complaining that Kobe wasn't being selfish enough. I think some people want to find faults, but I'm as excited about this season as i've ever been (go bulls!).

All these Europeans play so hard because they're trying to come here. And someone made an excellent point that a lot of these teams have American players who couldn't make it to the NBA. Talent-wise there is no debate. These are preseason games that are meant to establish rotations, not to win. It's no different in the MLB or NHL or NFL. NFL players hate the preseason, its no secret. Every league has its selfish, money-hungry players. Watch sportscenter and its all about NFL players, not NFL games.

The funny thing is, the NBA is the World's League now. I don't know the exact number, but i'm pretty sure there are over 100 foreign-born players in the league. The NBA wants the best players period. So to say this league isn't as good as it used to be or as good as other leagues is fallacy.

This is my 2nd post i think but had to share my thoughts. I love this game!