Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

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  • Court_vision
    Banned
    • Oct 2002
    • 8290

    #46
    Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
    If you're a Sonics fan, I can't see how you don't like this trade. First of all, it didn't sound like Payton was coming back, and not to mention he's 34. Second of all, they obviously didn't have the talent around him to contend, so why not get rid of GP before he walks and start the rebuilding process? Okay, so they got rid of GP AND Mason, but there's no better way to start the rebuilding than with Ray Allen. It's not like they got some scrub-they got Ray Freakin Allen, a bonafide STAR. His defense may be below average, but he's one of the best pure shooters in the game, and can score points in bunches. IMO, a major coup for Seattle in getting him. And I think everyone is overstating his injury problems. GP is 34- who's to say he won't break down any year now?

    As for saying Mason is almost as good as Allen is ridiculous. And to say he's going to be as good as Allen down the road is pure speculation. He's a decent player, great athleticism, and a solid defender. But he's no Allen. And to those comparing Redd and Houston to Allen need to stop the madness immediately! The Bucks may have gotten the better end in the short term, but without a doubt, Seattle got the better for the long term. If the Sonics can get a PG in the draft this year, they'll have a very solid nucleus with Allen, Lewis, and Radmanovic to build around. Great trade for the Sonics IMO.

    <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

    Again, I see your points and there well made.

    I just don't see it as that great for Seattle. Mason is only a few points per game behind Allen, but is younger, more athletic and a much better defemder.

    Also, why did Seattle want another shooter? They were already one of the best shooting teams in the NBA. They now have ZERO post up game...so Allen won't be getting many open looks. He also will find driving the lane in the WEST a completely different beast to driving the lane in the EAST.

    Re the draft...they won't be able to get a great PG from where they will draft. Best case scenario is someone like Tinnsley etc.

    IMO they are a long, long way from being a force again in the west. They needed a post up man badly and they needed to dump the likes of Booth etc in any GP deal.

    Just my opinion though and only time will tell.

    Comment

    • Court_vision
      Banned
      • Oct 2002
      • 8290

      #47
      Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

      </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
      If you're a Sonics fan, I can't see how you don't like this trade. First of all, it didn't sound like Payton was coming back, and not to mention he's 34. Second of all, they obviously didn't have the talent around him to contend, so why not get rid of GP before he walks and start the rebuilding process? Okay, so they got rid of GP AND Mason, but there's no better way to start the rebuilding than with Ray Allen. It's not like they got some scrub-they got Ray Freakin Allen, a bonafide STAR. His defense may be below average, but he's one of the best pure shooters in the game, and can score points in bunches. IMO, a major coup for Seattle in getting him. And I think everyone is overstating his injury problems. GP is 34- who's to say he won't break down any year now?

      As for saying Mason is almost as good as Allen is ridiculous. And to say he's going to be as good as Allen down the road is pure speculation. He's a decent player, great athleticism, and a solid defender. But he's no Allen. And to those comparing Redd and Houston to Allen need to stop the madness immediately! The Bucks may have gotten the better end in the short term, but without a doubt, Seattle got the better for the long term. If the Sonics can get a PG in the draft this year, they'll have a very solid nucleus with Allen, Lewis, and Radmanovic to build around. Great trade for the Sonics IMO.

      <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

      Again, I see your points and there well made.

      I just don't see it as that great for Seattle. Mason is only a few points per game behind Allen, but is younger, more athletic and a much better defemder.

      Also, why did Seattle want another shooter? They were already one of the best shooting teams in the NBA. They now have ZERO post up game...so Allen won't be getting many open looks. He also will find driving the lane in the WEST a completely different beast to driving the lane in the EAST.

      Re the draft...they won't be able to get a great PG from where they will draft. Best case scenario is someone like Tinnsley etc.

      IMO they are a long, long way from being a force again in the west. They needed a post up man badly and they needed to dump the likes of Booth etc in any GP deal.

      Just my opinion though and only time will tell.

      Comment

      • Dregur
        Pro
        • Dec 2002
        • 529

        #48
        Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

        Again, rumors were brewing that Sonics managment didn't think they could retain Mason anyway. Don't know why, just stuff I heard from somewhere (can't remember where....)

        -The Grinman
        Hornets to Seattle? Hmmm....

        Comment

        • Dregur
          Pro
          • Dec 2002
          • 529

          #49
          Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

          Again, rumors were brewing that Sonics managment didn't think they could retain Mason anyway. Don't know why, just stuff I heard from somewhere (can't remember where....)

          -The Grinman
          Hornets to Seattle? Hmmm....

          Comment

          • Court_vision
            Banned
            • Oct 2002
            • 8290

            #50
            Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
            Well, rumors go that GP DOES NOT want to stay in the Mid or Eastern US. He's a West Coast guy, mainly because of his family. The Bucks MAY have a chance at resigining him, but I don't think they will.

            -The Grinman

            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

            Same rumours say Kidd will return also.

            Hmmmmm...that's two decent PG's coming back to the west and only one contender (Spurs) with any money.

            Re Mason, isn't he contracted for two more seasons after this?

            Comment

            • Court_vision
              Banned
              • Oct 2002
              • 8290

              #51
              Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
              Well, rumors go that GP DOES NOT want to stay in the Mid or Eastern US. He's a West Coast guy, mainly because of his family. The Bucks MAY have a chance at resigining him, but I don't think they will.

              -The Grinman

              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

              Same rumours say Kidd will return also.

              Hmmmmm...that's two decent PG's coming back to the west and only one contender (Spurs) with any money.

              Re Mason, isn't he contracted for two more seasons after this?

              Comment

              • Dregur
                Pro
                • Dec 2002
                • 529

                #52
                Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                I believe so, but I'm not really sure.

                -The Grinman
                Hornets to Seattle? Hmmm....

                Comment

                • Dregur
                  Pro
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 529

                  #53
                  Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                  I believe so, but I'm not really sure.

                  -The Grinman
                  Hornets to Seattle? Hmmm....

                  Comment

                  • SonicMage
                    NBA Ratings Wizard
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 3544

                    #54
                    Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                    I have seen some pretty good analysis on this trade in this thread but I think you guys have forgotten a few key issues.

                    Here's how I see how this trade was conceived. George Karl has been lobbying to bring in Payton for a couple of years now. No big secret. Sonics saw a chance to bring in Allen, who is, according to a Kenny Smith opinion which I happen to agree with, the BEST possible player on the market they could have received in return. Though due to Payton's age and pending free agency, I bet the Bucks would have only gone through with the deal on the condition that Mason is thrown in.

                    What hasn't been mentioned yet is the other deal the Sonics made, which I believe to have been lousy for them. Imagine if they kept Kenny. Their lineup on opening day would have been:

                    C Drobnjak
                    PF Radmanovic
                    SF Lewis
                    SG Allen
                    PG Anderson

                    with a bench of Brent Barry, Reggie Evans, and a LOTTERY pick. Definitely a team that can do some damage. Should've kept Kenny.

                    I believe that Cassell will have no issues whatsoever backing up Payton. If you remember, the guy holds two rings for playing second fiddle at point guard. Though he may have been young then, I think he has the same mentality. Get sent to the bench if it means a ton more W's.

                    I honestly dont think that Cassell and Payton will be the starting backcourt, though sometimes I think this will happen over the course of the game. I think Redd is gonna start at the 2 until Mason ends up winning the position from him by season's end in time for playoffs.

                    One last note: about the title of this thread, this is not an uneven trade. Next time you think of a trade being "bad", think of the worst trade in NBA history. The Sonics traded away Scottie Pippen to the Bulls for Olden Polynice.
                    NBA 2K18 ratings for several seasons generated from advanced analytics using the SportsCrunch system:

                    Sonicmage NBA 2K18 Ratings 2017-18 season
                    Link to Ratings 1996-2017
                    Link to Ratings 1973-1996
                    Link to Ratings All-time

                    Discussion found here

                    Comment

                    • SonicMage
                      NBA Ratings Wizard
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 3544

                      #55
                      Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                      I have seen some pretty good analysis on this trade in this thread but I think you guys have forgotten a few key issues.

                      Here's how I see how this trade was conceived. George Karl has been lobbying to bring in Payton for a couple of years now. No big secret. Sonics saw a chance to bring in Allen, who is, according to a Kenny Smith opinion which I happen to agree with, the BEST possible player on the market they could have received in return. Though due to Payton's age and pending free agency, I bet the Bucks would have only gone through with the deal on the condition that Mason is thrown in.

                      What hasn't been mentioned yet is the other deal the Sonics made, which I believe to have been lousy for them. Imagine if they kept Kenny. Their lineup on opening day would have been:

                      C Drobnjak
                      PF Radmanovic
                      SF Lewis
                      SG Allen
                      PG Anderson

                      with a bench of Brent Barry, Reggie Evans, and a LOTTERY pick. Definitely a team that can do some damage. Should've kept Kenny.

                      I believe that Cassell will have no issues whatsoever backing up Payton. If you remember, the guy holds two rings for playing second fiddle at point guard. Though he may have been young then, I think he has the same mentality. Get sent to the bench if it means a ton more W's.

                      I honestly dont think that Cassell and Payton will be the starting backcourt, though sometimes I think this will happen over the course of the game. I think Redd is gonna start at the 2 until Mason ends up winning the position from him by season's end in time for playoffs.

                      One last note: about the title of this thread, this is not an uneven trade. Next time you think of a trade being "bad", think of the worst trade in NBA history. The Sonics traded away Scottie Pippen to the Bulls for Olden Polynice.
                      NBA 2K18 ratings for several seasons generated from advanced analytics using the SportsCrunch system:

                      Sonicmage NBA 2K18 Ratings 2017-18 season
                      Link to Ratings 1996-2017
                      Link to Ratings 1973-1996
                      Link to Ratings All-time

                      Discussion found here

                      Comment

                      • keRplunK
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 4080

                        #56
                        Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                        ya but that was a draft day deal,stuff like that happens all the time(robert traylor for dirk nowitzki?). Imagine though what could have been. Payton, Hawkins, Pippen, Kemp, E.Johnson and Detlef coming off the bench.....that team would have won atleast 3+ championships......, anyways, as of right now, the Sonics have TWO LOTTERY PICKS.........add that too Allen, Lewis, Radmanvic, Drobnajak, Barry, plus the 4.5 million mid level exception, plus another lottery pick the following year......thats 3 Lottery picks and a decent player......All I'm saying is that the draft is risky, you can pull the next Amare Stoudamire or you could draft Robert Traylor.....This team could be a championship calibar team or they could be an average team. Its ALL on the Sonics Management now....atleast they've drafted good the last few years.

                        Comment

                        • keRplunK
                          MVP
                          • Jul 2002
                          • 4080

                          #57
                          Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                          ya but that was a draft day deal,stuff like that happens all the time(robert traylor for dirk nowitzki?). Imagine though what could have been. Payton, Hawkins, Pippen, Kemp, E.Johnson and Detlef coming off the bench.....that team would have won atleast 3+ championships......, anyways, as of right now, the Sonics have TWO LOTTERY PICKS.........add that too Allen, Lewis, Radmanvic, Drobnajak, Barry, plus the 4.5 million mid level exception, plus another lottery pick the following year......thats 3 Lottery picks and a decent player......All I'm saying is that the draft is risky, you can pull the next Amare Stoudamire or you could draft Robert Traylor.....This team could be a championship calibar team or they could be an average team. Its ALL on the Sonics Management now....atleast they've drafted good the last few years.

                          Comment

                          • Dregur
                            Pro
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 529

                            #58
                            Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                            </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                            ya but that was a draft day deal,stuff like that happens all the time(robert traylor for dirk nowitzki?). Imagine though what could have been. Payton, Hawkins, Pippen, Kemp, E.Johnson and Detlef coming off the bench.....that team would have won atleast 3+ championships......, anyways, as of right now, the Sonics have TWO LOTTERY PICKS.........add that too Allen, Lewis, Radmanvic, Drobnajak, Barry, plus the 4.5 million mid level exception, plus another lottery pick the following year......thats 3 Lottery picks and a decent player......All I'm saying is that the draft is risky, you can pull the next Amare Stoudamire or you could draft Robert Traylor.....This team could be a championship calibar team or they could be an average team. Its ALL on the Sonics Management now....atleast they've drafted good the last few years.

                            <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                            Well, except they probably wouldn't have Payton, Kemp, or Schrempf on the team. Remember, Payton was drafted a lottery pick (2nd), and Kemp was drafted 17th a year earlier.

                            And Schrempf wouldn't have been picked up if they had Pippen.

                            Also, IIRC, Pippen didn't want to play in Seattle anyway.

                            -The Grinman
                            Hornets to Seattle? Hmmm....

                            Comment

                            • Dregur
                              Pro
                              • Dec 2002
                              • 529

                              #59
                              Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                              </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
                              ya but that was a draft day deal,stuff like that happens all the time(robert traylor for dirk nowitzki?). Imagine though what could have been. Payton, Hawkins, Pippen, Kemp, E.Johnson and Detlef coming off the bench.....that team would have won atleast 3+ championships......, anyways, as of right now, the Sonics have TWO LOTTERY PICKS.........add that too Allen, Lewis, Radmanvic, Drobnajak, Barry, plus the 4.5 million mid level exception, plus another lottery pick the following year......thats 3 Lottery picks and a decent player......All I'm saying is that the draft is risky, you can pull the next Amare Stoudamire or you could draft Robert Traylor.....This team could be a championship calibar team or they could be an average team. Its ALL on the Sonics Management now....atleast they've drafted good the last few years.

                              <hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

                              Well, except they probably wouldn't have Payton, Kemp, or Schrempf on the team. Remember, Payton was drafted a lottery pick (2nd), and Kemp was drafted 17th a year earlier.

                              And Schrempf wouldn't have been picked up if they had Pippen.

                              Also, IIRC, Pippen didn't want to play in Seattle anyway.

                              -The Grinman
                              Hornets to Seattle? Hmmm....

                              Comment

                              • keRplunK
                                MVP
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 4080

                                #60
                                Re: Bucks have pulled off one of THE great trade days...

                                ha ha, good one. You honestly think that Pippen 7.9 points a game while barley playing his rookie year would have made a difference? Then the Sonics were the only team smart enough to take Kemp, he probably would have fell to 20.....then they traded Ricky Pierce for Shrempf I believe.....who was a 6th man at the time so I could see that deal possibly happeing. This is all speculation but more then likely Payton, Kemp, and Pippen would've had some Great years together.....

                                Comment

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