The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

[KG]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

how did I know the thread would turn into this....lol if you were really watching the game or the series in general you would see Paul was just as bad....but thats besides the point: the whole league is bad...everybody cries to the refs, everybody flops...there needs to be a change, period.

Its funny you mention the bad boy pistons though, they have the all time whiner on thier squad....lol thats still my guy though

Yeah, I actually thought that CP3 was the worst at this in the whole series.

[ehh]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

how did I know the thread would turn into this....lol if you were really watching the game or the series in general you would see Paul was just as bad....but thats besides the point: the whole league is bad...everybody cries to the refs, everybody flops...there needs to be a change, period.

Its funny you mention the bad boy pistons though, they have the all time whiner on thier squad....lol thats still my guy though

I think you're missing the point of my post, or at least the point I was trying to make. I wasn't talking about whiners, players have always whined. Jordan bitched at the refs as much as anyone. I'm talking about the physical play, hand-checking, not being afraid to dish out a hard foul, etc.

Tony Parker gets into the lane at will and no one ever puts him on his ***. Twenty years ago the entire Jordan Rules of the Pistons were based exaclty on that - hitting Jordan as hard as you could when he came into the paint and trying to make him think twice about it doing it again. Of course it backfired because MJ was so absurdly competitive it only made him a better player and more driven. Most players in the NBA today would not have the same reaction.

The fact that a 6'1 point guard can lead the league in points in the paint is a pretty big sign that the league is soft as hell.

[23]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

Can't say I disagree. I've been saying these same things for a long time now.

Falling on deaf ears though because Stern is thinking $$$$$$$$$$$

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

I think you're missing the point of my post, or at least the point I was trying to make. I wasn't talking about whiners, players have always whined. Jordan bitched at the refs as much as anyone. I'm talking about the physical play, hand-checking, not being afraid to dish out a hard foul, etc.

Tony Parker gets into the lane at will and no one ever puts him on his ***. Twenty years ago the entire Jordan Rules of the Pistons were based exaclty on that - hitting Jordan as hard as you could when he came into the paint and trying to make him think twice about it doing it again. Of course it backfired because MJ was so absurdly competitive it only made him a better player and more driven. Most players in the NBA today would not have the same reaction.

The fact that a 6'1 point guard can lead the league in points in the paint is a pretty big sign that the league is soft as hell.

I actually agree w\ you, I just didnt agree w\ you singling out a player b\c its done by the entire league.

I think what your missing is that the players have to adjust to the rules not the other way around. Your putting way too much blame on the players rather than the league...players are faster,stronger and arguably more talented overall than they ever were before....but have to play within the rules of the league.

[ehh]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

I actually agree w\ you, I just didnt agree w\ you singling out a player b\c its done by the entire league.

I think what your missing is that the players have to adjust to the rules not the other way around. Your putting way too much blame on the players rather than the league...players are faster,stronger and arguably more talented overall than they ever were before....but have to play within the rules of the league.

Well I was only singling out Parker because he's the best at it, or should I say takes advantage of it the most. Think if it as a compliment.

I do agree to a certain extent with the part about the rules, physical play is frowned upon more these days and players have to adjust to that in normal game situations.

But at the same time it's more of a mental issue than a physical one w. the players. You can give a guy a hard foul and not get kicked outta the game (although that Turiaf ejection was embarrassing for the league) such as the C's did at times with LeBron. Posey and Pierce had a couple good, hard fouls that I liked to see. To be honest I had no problem w. the Horry screen on David West.

No one fears going into the paint anymore (although no one will strike fear into LBJ at his size), partly because of the rules as you said, but partly because of the players too. It's a two way street and although the league is soft these days you can still get away with a hard foul to send a message.

Obviously the whole story a bout Paul and Parker staying at each other's cribs, etc has seen enough pub. The league isn't as nasty as it used to be for the most part, more opposing players are friendly off the court, etc. This is an issue with every sport as free agency (and technology IMO) became more prevalent.

[X*Cell]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

League Average (3 year periods)

Year ... Free Throw Attempts (over 2000) | Personal Fouls (over 1800)

2006-08 ... 113 | 4
2003-05 ... 42 | 0
2000-02 ... 22 | 28
1997-99 ... 116 | 24
1994-96 ... 189 | 71
1991-93 ... 249 | 74
1988-90 ... 363 | 141
1985-87 ... 463 | 241

and I'll stop there...

BKRich (who tried to down me for an entire thread for not agreeing that 80's basketball was better than today) made the grandfather syndrome here famous, and it's really annoying that your ignorance makes you oblivious to the concrete stats... the NBA according to my stats here say that LESS fouls... excuse me HUNDREDS of LESS fouls are called today than were called during the 1980's when the NBA was apparently perfect. Stop hating on today's NBA without a proper argument. You say that more fouls are called today... and that's a BLATANT lie. All those so-called "messages" that those bad boy Pistons were sending was sending the other damn team to the free throw line anyway. Sounds like a bunch of out of control thugs if you ask me.

[ehh]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

League Average (3 year periods)

Year ... Free Throw Attempts (over 2000) | Personal Fouls (over 1800)

2006-08 ... 113 | 4
2003-05 ... 42 | 0
2000-02 ... 22 | 28
1997-99 ... 116 | 24
1994-96 ... 189 | 71
1991-93 ... 249 | 74
1988-90 ... 363 | 141
1985-87 ... 463 | 241

and I'll stop there...

BKRich (who tried to down me for an entire thread for not agreeing that 80's basketball was better than today) made the grandfather syndrome here famous, and it's really annoying that your ignorance makes you oblivious to the concrete stats... the NBA according to my stats here say that LESS fouls... excuse me HUNDREDS of LESS fouls are called today than were called during the 1980's when the NBA was apparently perfect. Stop hating on today's NBA without a proper argument. You say that more fouls are called today... and that's a BLATANT lie. All those so-called "messages" that those bad boy Pistons were sending was sending the other damn team to the free throw line anyway. Sounds like a bunch of out of control thugs if you ask me.

I'm sure those stats don't tell the whole story. What about possessions per game, FGA per game and ultimately fouls per possession? Posting total numbers doesn't really tell us anything.

As for the Pistons, those "out of control thugs" managed to win back-to-back titles, I'd say that's a decent accomplishment.

[DocHolliday]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

OP, i totally agree. The fouling is just crazy, just KILLS the game. If an offensive player initiats contact just let it be a non-call.

All the breaks for fouls just drains people.

I mean im a harcore fan an it drives me nuts, I start channel surfing then dont switch back. Cant imagine what a casual fan does.

[hugabone]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

As I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't want to watch a game with Hubie Brown as the announcer. He thinks breathing the offenders air is a foul. But on the other hand, Jeff Van Gundy sees all the ticky-tackiness. I'm with the old saying, "no harm, no foul"

[X*Cell]

Re: The NBA has been a soft league for a few years now

I'm sure those stats don't tell the whole story. What about possessions per game, FGA per game and ultimately fouls per possession? Posting total numbers doesn't really tell us anything.

As for the Pistons, those "out of control thugs" managed to win back-to-back titles, I'd say that's a decent accomplishment.

I figured they all played a 48 minute game with a 24 second shot clock so it should be relatively the same but I guess I'll have to examine those numbers too. Either way, 300 extra fouls called per year (ON ONE TEAM... multiply that by number of teams to get the league difference) is a tell-tale sign that there were MORE fouls called back then than today.