Flip Saunders GONE!

[Village Idiot]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

Good riddance. Safe to say, that just didn't work.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

They had tired of LB constantly ranting that they weren't playing "the right way", and had gotten tired of the 80-point grimy defensive battles. Flip should have been the perfect coach...based on what all the Piston players were crying for. An offensive guru who would trust them enough to treat them like vets. Now, after dominating the East, after being on pace to match the Bulls all-time season record 2 years ago, and after making 3 straight conf. finals, its Flip's fault these morons can't close out anyone when it matters? LMFAO...maybe they shouldn't have complained so much about how controlling LB was, since they obviously need their widdle hands held.

The funny part is that Joe flubbing the #2 pick in what was arguably the best draft in league history was a biggger deal than Flip being too easy going on these arrogant bastids...and they will probably bring someone in with even less credibility.

[trobinson97]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

They had tired of LB constantly ranting that they weren't playing "the right way", and had gotten tired of the 80-point grimy defensive battles. Flip should have been the perfect coach...based on what all the Piston players were crying for. An offensive guru who would trust them enough to treat them like vets. Now, after dominating the East, after being on pace to match the Bulls all-time season record 2 years ago, and after making 3 straight conf. finals, its Flip's fault these morons can't close out anyone when it matters? LMFAO...maybe they shouldn't have complained so much about how controlling LB was, since they obviously need their widdle hands held.

The funny part is that Joe flubbing the #2 pick in what was arguably the best draft in league history was a biggger deal than Flip being too easy going on these arrogant bastids...and they will probably bring someone in with even less credibility.

Lol, ouch man.

[Psyblast]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

They had tired of LB constantly ranting that they weren't playing "the right way", and had gotten tired of the 80-point grimy defensive battles. Flip should have been the perfect coach...based on what all the Piston players were crying for. An offensive guru who would trust them enough to treat them like vets. Now, after dominating the East, after being on pace to match the Bulls all-time season record 2 years ago, and after making 3 straight conf. finals, its Flip's fault these morons can't close out anyone when it matters? LMFAO...maybe they shouldn't have complained so much about how controlling LB was, since they obviously need their widdle hands held.

The funny part is that Joe flubbing the #2 pick in what was arguably the best draft in league history was a biggger deal than Flip being too easy going on these arrogant bastids...and they will probably bring someone in with even less credibility.

Excuse me?

NO ONE...I repeat...NO ONE...got rid of Larry Brown because the players got tired of him and they didn't like playing games in the 80s.

Larry Brown was fired because Bill Davidson got tired of Brown whoring himself out to other teams during a run to the Finals.

Please try to get your facts straight before throwing an organization under the bus. I know you're a Cleveland fan and it's hard to speak coherently about a Detroit team, but you could not have possibly been more off base with that post.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

Lol, ouch man.

I feel for Flip...he's clearly been made a scapegoat, when in reality, he was exactly what the players asked for. If Rasheed stopped acting like a friggin 2-year old, they'd have a couple more Finals appearances under their belt. Not saying Flip is a HOF coach, but it's not like they had no success under him, and he's probably reason #5 they couldn't get over the hump:

1. Arrogant, overconfident players
2. Rasheed being a liability when hes needed most
3. Didn't maintain the defense the team was built for
4. Darko
5. Flip couldn't keep them hungry

[OSUFan_88]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

Excuse me?
I know you're a Cleveland fan and it's hard to speak coherently about a Detroit team.

He may have been off base, but don't do that.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

Excuse me?

NO ONE...I repeat...NO ONE...got rid of Larry Brown because the players got tired of him and they didn't like playing games in the 80s.

Larry Brown was fired because Bill Davidson got tired of Brown whoring himself out to other teams during a run to the Finals.

Please try to get your facts straight before throwing an organization under the bus. I know you're a Cleveland fan and it's hard to speak coherently about a Detroit team, but you could not have possibly been more off base with that post.

Unwad those panties, bruh, lol.

First, I've always been a Pistons fan, as much as you can be when discussing a conf rival. I've defended that team on here several times, because I always have, and always will love defensive b-ball. Please don't make yourself look foolish by playing the "*****" card here.

Second, while the final straw for LB's departure was his flirting with the Cavs organization during the playoffs, don't act like their weren't several instances LEADING UP TO THAT POINT where players were complaining about not being able to open up the offense, or Pistons complaining about LB's frequent assertions that they weren't playing the right way. Those guys were beginning to chafe, it was frequently covered, and LB's restlessness...wait for it...is likely to have been due to that very fact.

[The Chef]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

I feel for Flip...he's clearly been made a scapegoat, when in reality, he was exactly what the players asked for. If Rasheed stopped acting like a friggin 2-year old, they'd have a couple more Finals appearances under their belt. Not saying Flip is a HOF coach, but it's not like they had no success under him, and he's probably reason #5 they couldn't get over the hump:

1. Arrogant, overconfident players
2. Rasheed being a liability when hes needed most
3. Didn't maintain the defense the team was built for
4. Darko
5. Flip couldn't keep them hungry

1. Couldnt agree more, thats the price you pay I guess when winning starts to come easy and then you take it for granted.

2. Rasheed is a liability if you look at it from the stand point of technicals and giving away points, and if he doesnt play with a chip on his shoulder then we have what happened in Game 6.

3. I think this one ties into taking things for granted, winning became taken for granted, so I agree here as well.

4. Maybe Im blind but I dont get how this has anything to do with it. Nobody knows how this team would have played if they had drafted say Carmelo, all this garbage about speculation means squat. Darko didnt have anything to do with the current problems with the team.

5. Flip couldnt keep them hungry because he couldnt gain their respect, he hadnt done anything in his coaching career that warranted their respect, and as bad as that is, thats what I think happened. A lot of what you mentioned, lack of defensive intensity, coasting at times etc is a complete by-product of Flip being a leader with no followers, he was a man on an island by himself. For those reasons you cant list him this low, its not his fault that he couldnt gain their respect but he certainly didnt come to town and make our offense into a top offense, we did the same thing we have always done, run Rip on screens, pick and pop plays for Rasheed and dump it into the post, and that I can blame him for. Secondly, Flip made some ridiculous substitutions during the Boston series, taking out guys who had just gotten going, leaving a hot Maxiell on the bench while throwing Ratliff out there instead, watching us getting destroyed on the boards and not making the proper adjustment, those are his fault and not the players. There is no reason that a guy like Kendrick Perkins should dominate our entire front line in the playoffs, but as a rule of thumb, whenever Rasheed is on that floor they better have Maxiell out there with him because Wallace rebounds so poorly and McDyess isnt what he used to be, they need that big banger to make up for Wallace's shortcomings. That about sums up my points I guess and while I agree with most of what you say, I do think Flip holds a good chunk of blame himself, and I would imagine any Piston fan would agree, it wasnt 100% Flip or 100% the players but it was a mixture of the two, and its a lot easier to get rid of one then the other 12.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

4. Maybe Im blind but I dont get how this has anything to do with it. Nobody knows how this team would have played if they had drafted say Carmelo, all this garbage about speculation means squat. Darko didnt have anything to do with the current problems with the team.

The Pistons would have been ridiculous with Wade or Bosh on that roster. Even though he's one of the leagues premier scorers, Melo wasn't a good fit for DET, especially on an LB team, so I don't blame them for passing on Anthony...but taking Darko was a huge mistake in hindsight considering the immense level of talent they also let get away.

I agree with everything else, your take on Flip was pretty good. While I have a hard time relegating his entire coaching tenure to a few bad decisions in a handful of games, I get what you're saying...those were crucial decisions. I'll bump Flip up to #3.

[The Chef]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

The Pistons would have been ridiculous with Wade or Bosh on that roster. Even though he's one of the leagues premier scorers, Melo wasn't a good fit for DET, especially on an LB team, so I don't blame them for passing on Anthony...but taking Darko was a huge mistake in hindsight considering the immense level of talent they also let get away.

Just to play devils advocate, if they drafted Bosh then I guarantee they dont make that trade for Rasheed, so the team is completely different and Im not so sure in a good way, for that year. Obviously if we had Bosh we would be in a better position now, but I dont think we would have been then. Where would Wade have played on that team though? Detroit had far too much invested in Billups and Rip, neither Rip or Wade can play SF so he wouldnt have fit the current makeup of the team at that time either. Not to single you out, but so many people want to talk about Detroit screwing that draft up like it was the worst decision ever, but in reality it still pales in comparison to what Portland did when they took an often injured Sam Bowie over MJ, nothing can rival that blunder.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

Just to play devils advocate, if they drafted Bosh then I guarantee they dont make that trade for Rasheed, so the team is completely different and Im not so sure in a good way, for that year. Obviously if we had Bosh we would be in a better position now, but I dont think we would have been then. Where would Wade have played on that team though? Detroit had far too much invested in Billups and Rip, neither Rip or Wade can play SF so he wouldnt have fit the current makeup of the team at that time either. Not to single you out, but so many people want to talk about Detroit screwing that draft up like it was the worst decision ever, but in reality it still pales in comparison to what Portland did when they took an often injured Sam Bowie over MJ, nothing can rival that blunder.

True, true...but this is easily #2. The second worst pick of all time.

Like you said it's all speculation, but it's hard to imagine this team being any worse with a 1st team All-NBA calibur player on the roster, along with the great players they already have. Had they taken Bosh, LB probably wouldn't have given him many minutes initially, just like Darko, and since ATL was shopping Sheed for peanuts, Brown would have still wanted that veteran guy. Dice and Webber wouldn't have been signed, but I think Sheed still would have.

Also, i'm pretty sure Chauncey or Rip would be have been made expendable with a dynamic guy like Wade developing behind them. Picture Stuckey being dominant off the bench, shredding teams for 30+ in stretches and showing signs of being elite. Billups or Rip would be on the block as we speak...

[The Chef]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

I dont doubt that Wade would have forced the Pistons to shop either Rip or Billups, more likely Rip since neither Wade or Rip are at their best when trying to initiate the offense. What Im saying is, Detroit had reason enough not to draft someone whose position is already filled, some teams believe in drafting on need and others believe in taking the best player in the draft, Detroit obviously drafted on need and took a player that wouldnt need playing time right away and needed much more time anyways. I think Dumars also outsmarted himself in some ways, he probably figured in a perfect world Darko would be ready to step up around the same time that the roster needed to be turned over and it would allow for a seamless transition, unfortunatly Larry doesnt play rookies and Darko's confidence went down the toilet, not to mention his nickname probably didnt help matters. Personally I would rather this team have Bosh right now then Rasheed but I think we are screwed personally, Billups is making more money then he is worth, Rasheeds age is going to hurt any trade offers we might get for him, Prince seems to be on a steady decline which is shocking considering his age and Rip shouldnt be traded period. In the end we might have to take whatever we can get and let the young guys take over and just let the chips fall where they may, Dumars wont do that but its what I would do in the end.

EDIT- Speaking of perfect situations, I would really love it if we could somehow figure out a way to get Elton Brand, he is exactly everything this team lacks, hustle, rebounding and low post offense.

Its interesting when you look back at previous drafts, where does Kwame Brown at #1 fit into the worst draft picks? Marcus Fizer at #4 in 2000? Michael Olowokandi at #1 in 1998? Robert Traylor at #6 and then traded for Dirk Nowitzki? Raef LaFrentz ahead of Paul Pierce that same year. There are so many draft blunders, Im not saying worse then the Darko pick, just throwing things out there.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

I think the difference P, is that in most drafts there's only one 'can't miss' guy, if that, and a handful of high end prospects. In that draft, their were 3 guys who were as close to can't miss status as they come, and they went with the one guy who was questionable. I know DET drafted for need, and a future big was a need, and I know hindsight is 20/20...but they didn't miss out on that "one" guy...they missed out on 3 of them, for a guy with zero pedigree, and only a couple great workouts to show for.

Good convo, bro..but I think we're veering off topic. I hope DET makes the right decision on this next coach. It'll be a tricky propisition to find the disciplinarian they need, who can still work well with vets and older guys.

[The Chef]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

Well arent they hiring Michael Curry anyways? If they are, I hope he somehow has the players ear since he played with Hamilton and Billups but I think its a risky choice if they do indeed hire him.

[HMcCoy]

Re: Flip Saunders GONE!

Well arent they hiring Michael Curry anyways? If they are, I hope he somehow has the players ear since he played with Hamilton and Billups but I think its a risky choice if they do indeed hire him.

Don't know if Curry is a done deal or not.

Y'know whats funny, though? The best guy for that job is probably Rick Carslisle, the guy they dumped in the first place.