What is the most important position on the floor?

[Cebby]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Playoff teams and SGs I would consider every day players.

East:
Orlando (Keith Bogans)
Philadelphia (Willie Green)
Toronto (Anthony Parker)
Cleveland (Sasha Pavlovic)
Washington (Deshawn Stevenson)

West:
Utah (Ronnie Brewer)
Phoenix (Raja Bell)
New Orleans (Morris Peterson)
Dallas (Jerry Stackhouse/Jason Terry was a PG running SG)
San Antonio (Michael Finley. This one shouldn't count, though, as Ginobili played most of the minutes here)

And Orlando, Cleveland, Washington, Boston, Atlanta, Denver, LA, Dallas, and Houston had everyday players at PG.

Spit all you want Sylvester, Rajon Rondo is a completely different player than he was last year. Playing on one of the most talented teams in NBA history also made his job a little easier.

And he had absolutely nothing to do with Boston going from worst to first. Acquiring two hall of fame players and a great 6th man had a lot more to do with it.

I don't see how a PG is a QB and a SG or C is an entire football defense. That's a bad analogy. If anything, the PG is the QB and the SG is the WR/RB. On defense, the PG would be the defensive line, clogging up lanes and allowing the linebackers and corners (or the NBA SG) to make plays.

Also picking the big stats highlight reel SG is the "cuter" pick, not the PG.

Point guards are the Big XII offenses (Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Texas Tech), Dallas Cowboys, and non-2006 Colts. Great regular season players, but come playoffs, give me the defensive teams and efficient quarterbacks. Point guards are the most important if you want to be a 2 or 3 seed and get run out of the second round. It'll happen this year too. Paul and Deron will make some cute plays, get a lot of hype, and maybe win the MVP, but come finals time, it'll be Rondo vs Fisher.

Either that or the 4 hall of fame players, Gasol, and Bynum.

[ehh]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

If all five players on the floor are 100% equal in talent then the PG is the most important position. Other than that this debate has a legitimate argument for every single position, especially if you're using real-life examples. Too many variables.

[JBH3]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Most important player on the floor is a dominant big.

2nd most important player is a PG who can feed him the ball.

Everything else around your dominant big is his supporting cast.

[Brankles]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

If all five players on the floor are 100% equal in talent then the PG is the most important position. Other than that this debate has a legitimate argument for every single position, especially if you're using real-life examples. Too many variables.

In so many words, that's what my argument was.

You'll find your best basketball players (6'8", 40 inch verticals, who run 4.4s and can handle and pass) at other positions, but if every player was equally talented, then what you say is true.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

If all five players on the floor are 100% equal in talent then the PG is the most important position. Other than that this debate has a legitimate argument for every single position, especially if you're using real-life examples. Too many variables.

I was about to agree with this statement then thought for a moment--wait a minute, that has never ever happened before. You can't base your theory off of a hypothetical that has never, and probably won't ever exist. There has never been a team with exact equal talent across the board.

And further more, if there WAS such a team, then matchups would still dictate who was the most important player. So if all 5 guys are equal in talent, the most important player is the one matched up against the weakest, or strongest person on the other team, because that mismatch will dictate the flow of the game.

Now if you're talking about two hypothetical teams both with equal talent, I think we're in the Twilight Zone, and no longer realistically talking about basketball.

Individual talent and matchups determine the most important position, not the mechanics of the game. Basketball positions are too amorphous to be compared to the rigid football system, where only the MLB and RB are truly versatile players, and only the QB dominates the ball. In basketball, anyone can dominate the ball, or no one can.

[ehh]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

I was about to agree with this statement then thought for a moment--wait a minute, that has never ever happened before. You can't base your theory off of a hypothetical that has never, and probably won't ever exist.

Why not?

And in lower levels of basketball I would argue that it has happened, not 100% obviously (since it's immeasurable anyway) but very even across the board.

For example, I coached u13 AAU for a summer and my team was awful (I was doing it as a favor to my former coach) and the talent level was pretty much even across the board (or lack of talent). No players at all, but I focused the most coaching on the point guards and trying to get them to understand that they're the most important piece to this team and we'll improve as they improve. Penetrate to break down the first line of defense, cause rotations, find the open man, control the ball, don't turn it over, etc. No one on our team could create their own shot, it was up to the PG's to get things going. No surprise that as the season went on and the PG's got better we started to win more games and our entire team started to play better.

Even if we had a good big man, what good would he be if we couldn't get the ball over half-court against the pressing inner-city teams? Not only would it limit his offense greatly but his defense as well since he'd rarely be in an ideal defensive position if so many turnovers came from the backcourt.

Individual talent and matchups determine the most important position, not the mechanics of the game

I can't agree with this. Answer me this, what was the most important position on the Celtics last year?

Even with all their talent and the Big 3 pretty much everyone said that Rondo was the player who was going to make or break their season come playoff time.

Was Rondo and the point truly the C's most important position last year because it was the big question mark? Or was it PF because without Garnett you'd have no prayer anyway? Or Pierce in the same scenario? How can you possibly pick one position? Like I said before there is a perfectly good argument for all cases.

Again, there are way too many variables to try to apply to a real-life situation at the pro or college level - which is why I think a "rare or unlikely" hypothetical is fine in this situation. It removes as many variables as possible (match ups, individual talent, system/philosphy, etc) from the situation while still allowing someone to make an informed decision.

What I was getting at with the "even talent" statement was that when you view the fundamentals of basketball point guard is the most important position. Even when I play pick up at the gym PG is the most important position. I'm not bragging but I am the best player down there (6'8, played DII in college as a perimeter three/four man) and ya know what, I am absolutely useless if the PG who's on my team is trying to do is best AI impersonation and never passes the ball and takes bad shot after bad shot while never getting his teammates involved. Sure, I can get some boards and put backs and still play D but my squad should never lose down there for the most part. And unless I basically steal the inbounds pass from my own teammate and said AI wannabe there are going to be major issues with the team. When PG's don't get their teammates involved on offense they get discouraged and stop working to get open, and once you stop working on O you definitely stop working on D. It can have a pretty big domino effect.

There have even been times were I took over the point from some knucklehead and I didn't even shoot for a whole game and we'd smoke the team we were playing. I'd just drive, draw and kick to a shooter or dump it off to some dude for an open layup. Simple, I'd have 8 or 9 assists in a game to 11 and it'd be lights out. Understand the game, find the best shot for your team, get your teammates involved, make the extra pass, find the hot hand, etc. That's what the PG does, well that and there's also a very good reason why terms like "point-forward" came to fruition over the years.

[Cebby]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Even with all their talent and the Big 3 pretty much everyone said that Rondo was the player who was going to make or break their season come playoff time.

Because he was the worst starter in his second season playing with 3 veteran hall of famers. Obviously his play was the biggest question mark going into the playoffs. They could win in spite of Rondo, but if he didn't suck, it'd go a long way. This goes for pretty much every team's worst player that's not the Lakers or Spurs (where every player is either a proven vet or has a clearly defined role).

[ehh]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Because he was the worst starter in his second season playing with 3 veteran hall of famers. Obviously his play was the biggest question mark going into the playoffs. They could win in spite of Rondo, but if he didn't suck, it'd go a long way. This goes for pretty much every team's worst player that's not the Lakers or Spurs (where every player is either a proven vet or has a clearly defined role).

Yeah, so answer the question. What was the most important position for the Celtics last year?

[Cebby]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Yeah, so answer the question. What was the most important position for the Celtics last year?

Regular season: PF->SF->SG->PG->C

Post season: SF->SG->PF->PG->C

The arrows flow from most important to least important

[Bornindamecca]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Yeah, so answer the question. What was the most important position for the Celtics last year?

You illustrate my point in your argument. Because of the variables in basketball, there is no consistent formula for most important position. It changes based on the circumstances. During the regular season, the consistency of rebounding and shotblocking put a lot of importance on KG, but in the playoffs, the need for crunch time scoring put the emphasis on Paul Pierce.

Neither the C, PG nor SG were ever the most important position for the Celts, because they have more talent at SF and PF, and Ray Allen never played well enough to take advantage of his one true matchup advantage against the Cavs.

Re: all of the non-pro basketball situations

You can't ask a universal question like "what is most..." and then submit situations of broken plays. The question is only pertinent in a working gameplan, and for a working gameplan you need players who at the very least, are able to play their roles. In the situations you brought up, the most important position is COACH.

[Brankles]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Why not?


----

Besides being a 6'8" former college player who is always the best player on the court, I understand completely what you're talking about.

I coach youth basketball and work primarily on PG play as well. We would get hammered in games where teams would put pressure on us. I tried to set up some plays and stuff for our 12 and under PAL team to run at the beginning of the season, but they were useless come game time, because it was a victory for our team if we were able to even get the ball across half court. Once we were able to get decent PG play, we could hang with almost any team in the league, even though our players were pretty much garbage. PG play, defense, shooting form, attitude and hustle is what I focused on, because I believe those are the foundations to a good basketball player.

And I feel you on that pickup ball thing. I'm 6'4", was almost always one of the two or three tallest players on the court, but grew up playing point guard. Even in HS, when we had PGs who were way better than me, this transitioned in to me being able to start at SF and PF because I was able to distribute the ball and manage the offense as a swing man or a low post player. What I learned in youth ball as a distributor was priceless and it carried over to higher levels of basketball, ending up with me playing and producing in situations I normally wouldn't have.

When I play pickup now, I usually let the PG (for some reason, PG just means shortest dude on the court) do their thing for a bit, which usually ends up with them F'ing the game up for everyone on our team. That's when I start grabbing rebounds and just taking off down the court by myself and look to distribute. There's really nothing worse than playing with a ballhogging point guard, and there's nothing better than playing with a guy who finds you every time you're open.


How does this translate into the NBA?

Well, all of this happens in the NBA... except on a much, much smaller and less noticeable scale. Teams with bad PGs struggle more than any other team with a weak player at another position.


I think we've all made our points and none of us have really proven it. One person says PG, another says SG, another says Center and another says this is an impossible question to answer. Everyone's got good points, I just think some of us are placing our levels of importance on different criteria.


For the PG, it's consistency, reliability, and a foundation of fundamentals and understanding of the game which leads to the rest of the team succeeding.

For the SG, it's being able to score in the clutch, put up difficult points where other players can't, and take over the game from the outside.

For the C, it's being able to dominate in the post, shoot efficiently, attract defenders, play help defense, and prevent second chance scoring opportunities for opponents.



All great points and all understandable differences. Based on my experiences with the game I happen to think the PG is the most important position in basketball.

[tehova]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

I'll take it from another angle and say its more "enjoyable" to play with a good point guard than any other position.

With a good point guard, I still can feel involved even when I dont have the ball. i.e. making cuts, running backdoor, even setting picks so other players can get open.

With a good big man, you throw it down there and watch. Its efficient but not as fun lol.


Or with bad point guard play you get in situations like I had in high school were the SG (me) and the SF(my friend marcus) are sprinting to the wing on the left side of the court after every possession. The point guard was left handed and he NEVER EVER LOOKED RIGHT. So you only had one chance to get the ball.

In pickup games you can always get away guarding a taller player on the block; because, who wants to slow it down and throw it in the post

[JBH3]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

Regular season: PF->SF->SG->PG->C

Post season: SF->SG->PF->PG->C

The arrows flow from most important to least important

SG in the post season...Ray Allen couldn't hit the broad side of a barn thru most the postseason. I'd say PJ Brown had more of an impact than Allen did.

[Cebby]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

SG in the post season...Ray Allen couldn't hit the broad side of a barn thru most the postseason. I'd say PJ Brown had more of an impact than Allen did.

By post season, I mean the finals.

[TMagic]

Re: What is the most important position on the floor?

I don't think that it's a question of which team has the best point guard.

I believe it's a question of which position has the biggest effect from game to game compared to the opponents position.

And for me, again that's the point.

If one team's point outplays the other teams point, more likely than not, that team will win.

I do not think that is the case with the guard and center positions. You will see guys like Kobe, McGrady, and Wade go for 40+ and shoot well, but still lose the game. Same with the center going for 30 pts, 10+ boards, and a few blocks and still lost the game.

It is extremely rare that you see a very efficient game from the point guard with good numbers in assists and points, and the team lose the game, or get blown out.

Case in point:

Last night, Dwight Howard had a great game. 22 pts, 15 rebs, 5 blocks, and 5 steals.

They lost. Jameer Nelson had 8 points, 33% shooting, 2 asts, and 3 turnovers.

Stephen Jackson and Corey Maggette went had 26 and 27 respectively. Azubuike had 17. Their wing men dominated. Morris Peterson had 6. Yet, the Hornets still won. Chris Paul had 21 and 11.

If you go through the playoffs last year, you will see that the point guard that outplayed their opponents point guard usually won the game.

That's why I say that point guard play is vital to a teams success. The point guard has the ball in his hands more than any other player over the entire game. If the point guard plays bad, the team suffers. If the point guard plays well, the team plays well.