Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

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  • TheMatrix31
    RF
    • Jul 2002
    • 52918

    #61
    Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

    Originally posted by o_capone
    come on now, are you serious? they have a garbage team...
    And what did Nash do for guys like Tim Thomas, Raja Bell, James Jones, Boris Diaw, etc? Those guys were not stars before they played in the Nashtoni system.

    Comment

    • ProfessaPackMan
      Bamma
      • Mar 2008
      • 63852

      #62
      Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

      There are, but they probably wouldn't know what they are talking about. According to some folks.
      #RespectTheCulture

      Comment

      • o_capone
        Banned
        • Apr 2009
        • 1270

        #63
        Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

        Originally posted by TheMatrix31
        And what did Nash do for guys like Tim Thomas, Raja Bell, James Jones, Boris Diaw, etc? Those guys were not stars before they played in the Nashtoni system.
        nothing... steve nash didnt teach those guys how to shoot... like i said put any of the leading assist guys on those same teams with that same system and they will have the same assist numbers which were not very high at all considering guys like deron williams and chris paul get the same amount in way way way slower paced offenses...

        people act like amare didn't average 26 points and 9 rebounds, like marion didnt average 19 points 11 rebounds... they both averaged about 1 and a half blocks per game... how is 15 points and 11 assist any more valuable than their points and rebounds? i understand he was he pg, he was quaterbackin it, but come on now.. he was not even the best player on his own team...

        the second year marion basically averaged 22 points 12 rebounds, 2 steals, 1 and a half blocks... nash 18 points 10 assist... how can anyone say nash was more valuable than marion? i understand he ran the point but come on now... marion was better than nash...

        Comment

        • TheMatrix31
          RF
          • Jul 2002
          • 52918

          #64
          Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

          Nash was the leader, Marion was the glue, Amare was the beast, Raja was the heart, and D'Antoni was the mastermind.

          You can't deal with hypotheticals about plugging in other superstar PGs and seeing that they'll do the same, because the fact is, that scenario is impossible. You look at what the Suns are with Nash, you look at what he did for the rest of the team, you look at how they were when Nash was off the floor taking a rest.....

          You list guys like Amare and Marion. Of course those guys are stars, and they will play well regardless. You didn't touch on the other guys, who were basically bums before coming in to Phoenix. Why did they work so well? Because their skills complimented the system, and they were perfect matches for Nash.

          I don't know. Whatever.

          Comment

          • o_capone
            Banned
            • Apr 2009
            • 1270

            #65
            Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

            Originally posted by TheMatrix31
            Nash was the leader, Marion was the glue, Amare was the beast, Raja was the heart, and D'Antoni was the mastermind.

            You can't deal with hypotheticals about plugging in other superstar PGs and seeing that they'll do the same, because the fact is, that scenario is impossible. You look at what the Suns are with Nash, you look at what he did for the rest of the team, you look at how they were when Nash was off the floor taking a rest.....

            You list guys like Amare and Marion. Of course those guys are stars, and they will play well regardless. You didn't touch on the other guys, who were basically bums before coming in to Phoenix. Why did they work so well? Because their skills complimented the system, and they were perfect matches for Nash.

            I don't know. Whatever.
            yea this is a 4 year old arguement, i'm sure you have held your position and i have held mine, we could go back and forth all day...

            i didn't touch on other guys because steve nash did not make them... steve nash won mvp, this is about nash as an individual... if he runs down court and has james jones wide open in the corner for 3 then fine he made the right pass, but was that something special deserving of mvp? or is james jones just a very good shooter who will knock down 3s no matter where he plays... he had his best year in portland, he shot higher %s than he did in phoenix.. he was not great in phoenix... neither was tim thomas, he only played 26 games with the suns, and it was not his best ball he has played... thats just a couple of the guys i remember you mentioning...

            so you tell me, honestly, who did steve nash make better?

            Comment

            • TheMatrix31
              RF
              • Jul 2002
              • 52918

              #66
              Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

              Originally posted by o_capone
              yea this is a 4 year old arguement, i'm sure you have held your position and i have held mine, we could go back and forth all day...

              i didn't touch on other guys because steve nash did not make them... steve nash won mvp, this is about nash as an individual... if he runs down court and has james jones wide open in the corner for 3 then fine he made the right pass, but was that something special deserving of mvp? or is james jones just a very good shooter who will knock down 3s no matter where he plays... he had his best year in portland, he shot higher %s than he did in phoenix.. he was not great in phoenix... neither was tim thomas, he only played 26 games with the suns, and it was not his best ball he has played... thats just a couple of the guys i remember you mentioning...

              so you tell me, honestly, who did steve nash make better?
              If you don't think Nash helped make James Jones legit and Tim Thomas into a star for the last 26 games and that playoff run, then I don't know what to tell you.

              Steve Nash made the Suns better. Why? Because he was the perfect player for what the system wanted to accomplish. End of story.

              Comment

              • o_capone
                Banned
                • Apr 2009
                • 1270

                #67
                Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                Originally posted by TheMatrix31
                If you don't think Nash helped make James Jones legit and Tim Thomas into a star for the last 26 games and that playoff run, then I don't know what to tell you.

                Steve Nash made the Suns better. Why? Because he was the perfect player for what the system wanted to accomplish. End of story.
                nash always gets undeserved credit, just check out james jones and tim thomas with the other teams they have played for... steve nash did not bring out anything in them that has not been displayed elsewhere... im just speaking what's real, this is not even opinion it's fact... tim thomas did not play his best ball in phoenix, neither did james jones... diaw did play his best ball in d'antonio's system... but it had nothing to do with nash, he actually averaged 6.2 assist and 6.9 rebounds his first year there... been a drop off ever since, even tho nash has still been there, but now that he is in charlotte he is playing the best ball of his career... pretty much same story for raja bell... these are facts right here no disputing this...

                Comment

                • TheMatrix31
                  RF
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 52918

                  #68
                  Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                  Ok.

                  Comment

                  • TMagic
                    G.O.A.T.
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 7550

                    #69
                    Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                    Originally posted by TheMatrix31
                    Ok.
                    LOL

                    I think I'm done after learning that Shawn Marion was worth more to the Suns than Nash and that Brevin Knight would have been just as good in Phoenix.
                    PSN: TMagic_01

                    Twitter: @ThoseFools

                    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEC...cd41cJK2238sIA

                    Comment

                    • TheMatrix31
                      RF
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 52918

                      #70
                      Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                      Originally posted by TMagic
                      LOL

                      I think I'm done after learning that Shawn Marion was worth more to the Suns than Nash.
                      In a way, he was. But not in terms of what we're discussing here.

                      Comment

                      • o_capone
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 1270

                        #71
                        Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                        Originally posted by TMagic
                        LOL

                        I think I'm done after learning that Shawn Marion was worth more to the Suns than Nash and that Brevin Knight would have been just as good in Phoenix.
                        during nash's mvp years brevin knight averaged 9.0 and 8.8 assist on a team with less options to pass to... by the way, the 9.0 assist was in 29 minutes per game... u might wanna just check the reasoning behind why people say what they say instead of just dismissing it because it's not the popular opinion...

                        and shawn marion was a walking double double for the phoenix suns for 8 straight years... i would natural think he has meant more for the phoenix suns than steve nash especially since neither one of them won a championship...

                        Comment

                        • ProfessaPackMan
                          Bamma
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 63852

                          #72
                          Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                          At least I had something to keep me entertained tonight other than College Hill.
                          #RespectTheCulture

                          Comment

                          • TMagic
                            G.O.A.T.
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 7550

                            #73
                            Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                            Originally posted by o_capone
                            during nash's mvp years brevin knight averaged 9.0 and 8.8 assist on a team with less options to pass to... by the way, the 9.0 assist was in 29 minutes per game... u might wanna just check the reasoning behind why people say what they say instead of just dismissing it because it's not the popular opinion...
                            Brevin Knight is no Steve Nash. So because Brevin had two seasons where he averaged 8 assists he's just as good as Nash?

                            Nash does so much more than that.

                            Nash gives you about 17 ppg on 50% FG shooting and 45% 3pt shooting to go along with those assists.

                            Nobody has to guard Brevin. The pick and roll offense of the Suns would not be nearly as effective due to that fact alone. The pick and roll is much harder to defend due to Nash's shooting touch.

                            If Nash gets a big on him, he can take him to the hole or do a hesitation dribble into a pull up. Something that Brevin is lacking.

                            You can't leave Nash to help on another player. With Brevin you can. This opens up scoring opportunities for other players.

                            Nash can take over the game with his scoring. Brevin Knight isn't going to do that for you.

                            At the end of a game, crunch time, Nash is a guy that I would fear having the ball in his hands. He'll knock down any good look from anywhere on the floor, make the right pass, or hit the free throws if he gets fouled. Brevin is a much easier cover.

                            Who would you trust down 1 with the game on the line? Steve Nash? Or Brevin Knight?

                            This comparison is crazy.
                            Last edited by TMagic; 04-14-2009, 11:37 PM.
                            PSN: TMagic_01

                            Twitter: @ThoseFools

                            YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEC...cd41cJK2238sIA

                            Comment

                            • o_capone
                              Banned
                              • Apr 2009
                              • 1270

                              #74
                              Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                              Originally posted by TMagic
                              Brevin Knight is no Steve Nash. So because Brevin had two seasons where he averaged 8 assists he's just as good as Nash?

                              Nash does so much more than that.

                              Nash gives you about 17 ppg on 50% FG shooting and 45% 3pt shooting to go along with those assists.

                              Nobody has to guard Brevin. The pick and roll offense of the Suns would not be nearly as effective due to that fact alone. The pick and roll is much harder to defend due to Nash's shooting touch.

                              If Nash gets a big on him, he can take him to the hole or do a hesitation dribble into a pull up. Something that Brevin is lacking.

                              You can't leave Nash to help on another player. With Brevin you can. This opens up scoring opportunities for other players.

                              Nash can take over the game with his scoring. Brevin Knight isn't going to do that for you.

                              At the end of a game, crunch time, Nash is a guy that I would fear having the ball in his hands. He'll knock down any good look from anywhere on the floor, make the right pass, or hit the free throws if he gets fouled. Brevin is a much easier cover.

                              Who would you trust down 1 with the game on the line? Steve Nash? Or Brevin Knight?

                              This comparison is crazy.
                              before steve nash played in mike d'antoni's system he only averaged more than 8 assist one time in his career...

                              what kind of elite pg has only averaged over 1 steal per game 3 times playing as many years as nash? even brevin night gets steals...
                              Last edited by o_capone; 04-14-2009, 11:43 PM.

                              Comment

                              • TMagic
                                G.O.A.T.
                                • Apr 2007
                                • 7550

                                #75
                                Re: Hollinger's take on past 5 MVP's by the numbers-- Nash and Kob weren't deserving

                                LOL

                                Alright man. You win.

                                Steve Nash = Brevin Knight
                                PSN: TMagic_01

                                Twitter: @ThoseFools

                                YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEC...cd41cJK2238sIA

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