Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

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  • Bornindamecca
    Books Nelson Simnation
    • Jul 2007
    • 10919

    #211
    Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

    Originally posted by kgx2thez
    I don't know what thread it was in but he's making me eat my words when it comes to team success. I remember saying something like "for him to take that next step it has to translate into W's.."

    See, I think it's sensible to say that he has to start winning. What didn't make sense was the people saying that the Thunder were losing because of some big hole in his game, and using that to liken Durant to scorers putting up big numbers on bad teams, but being fool's gold ultimately. Not only is that a dangerous evaluation for a then 20 year old, but it ignores how young and terrible his team was, as well as how he was getting his points.

    Originally posted by ex carrabba fan
    It does.

    But I've always said that I don't like splitting hairs between the cream of the crop. From the Summer I've said Durant is one of the top players in the league.

    That post was in response to AlexBrady saying Durant was not a top 24 player. I was making the point that it was false statement.
    You were on of the few people that were in the middle. Out of context, your posts could seem to be skewing one way or another. Plus you and Pack got caught up in a weird bit of semantics early on that skewed your side of the discussion.
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    • ex carrabba fan
      I'll thank him for you
      • Oct 2004
      • 32744

      #212
      Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

      I'm too lazy to search for my previous posts but I do not believe I was in the middle at any point on Durant. There's been way too many threads on Durant that probably went off topic indeed "skweing" my posts towards the negative for Durant.

      The main point I was making initially was that I don't believe Durant will ever be on LBJ's level.

      Other than that I have always pegged Durant right behind Wade/Kobe/LBJ

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      • Bornindamecca
        Books Nelson Simnation
        • Jul 2007
        • 10919

        #213
        Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

        Not in the middle on Durant, but in the middle of the discussion. In here, you had some people comparing him to mediocre players and saying he wasn't even in the top 25. Then you had others saying he'd be a top 5 player by the ASB. In that sense, you were in the middle. You had him better than top 25 but nowhere near top ten.

        I'm not going to get into him being at LJ's level, but I will say that his numbers as well as the Thunder's team success has already made it a valid discussion, even mathematically. (that he could get there, not that he is) Some people were saying that the notiion is ludicrous, but if a 21 year old leading a young playoff team with 30 pts, over 7 boards and great %s all around can't be in that discussion, then no one can.

        I don't think the author of the article was simply trying to get hits. I think there were whispers around the league that Durant might be in the MVP discussion this year, and ultimately the article was fairly prophetic.
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        • HMcCoy
          All Star
          • Jan 2003
          • 8212

          #214
          Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

          Originally posted by Bornindamecca
          Not in the middle on Durant, but in the middle of the discussion. In here, you had some people comparing him to mediocre players and saying he wasn't even in the top 25. Then you had others saying he'd be a top 5 player by the ASB. In that sense, you were in the middle. You had him better than top 25 but nowhere near top ten.

          I'm not going to get into him being at LJ's level, but I will say that his numbers as well as the Thunder's team success has already made it a valid discussion, even mathematically. (that he could get there, not that he is) Some people were saying that the notiion is ludicrous, but if a 21 year old leading a young playoff team with 30 pts, over 7 boards and great %s all around can't be in that discussion, then no one can.

          I don't think the author of the article was simply trying to get hits. I think there were whispers around the league that Durant might be in the MVP discussion this year, and ultimately the article was fairly prophetic.
          Also, you don't want to come out on that branch and clearly say it, but you've always hinted that Durant will be better than Bron, which is ludicrous. Yes the conversation is ludicrous. Let Westbrook and Maynor go down and have KD step up and run the point for a stretch...which Bron did in his rookie year. LeBron does two things KD will never be able to do. An all-time playmaker, and a shut down defender in crunchtime. Bron guards your best player in the clutch, be it point guard or 7-footer, Kobe, Wade, Bosh, whoever. KD can not, and at 6'10 it would be silly to ask him to. Playmaking? They say never say never...I'm. Sayin. Never. After three seasons the boy still hasn't averaged more assists than turnovers. Thats's no knock on Durant, his game isn't built for that. He's an elite, possibly greatest of all time play finisher. But he will never be the playmaker Bron is, fact.

          KD does has an advantage Bron will never be able to duplicate, and that's balance. LeBron will likely never be the pullup or off-screem shooter Durant is now. He'll never get that amount of weight and speed lined up perfectly. He also doesn't really seem that intersted in trying. However, unlike Bron's advantage, KD's is matched by the fact that Bron scores in the paint at a higher clip than Shaq in his prime. He'll never be a great midrange shooter, but he doesn't need to. KD's scoring is phenomenal for a third year guy, but still a little behind. Bron avgd a point and a half more in his third year, and while KD in MVP talks is nice, LeBron came in second in the voting in his third year also. KD will be every bit the scorer and rebounder Bron is, but never the passer or defender. So in the end, any "conversation" comparing those two will always be pretty limited.

          I also think it's interesting how *statistically* (disclaimer: stats aren't everything, numbers lie, watch the gamez!1!!), Durant is nearly the same player he was last year, except for one more shot attempt, a three shot increase in FT attempts now that he's getting his star calls, and an extra board. Nice improvement, no doubt. Yet, because the Thunder now have some defensive specialists, and play Cavalier defense,( I watch A LOT of Thunder b-ball this year and I love to see how Brooks has gotten them to start to buy into the Larry Brown school of shuttin mofos down) Westbrook and Green have also developed into studs, the bench is better....all equal Durant somehow being "validated"? GTFO, lol. Alex Brady was really the only one way off. KD is the same beast he was last year.

          That's NOT to say his increased confidence and leadership ability isn't the main reason for their leap. Thats the one major area I will say that Durant could surpass Bron. I have to admit I've fallen in love with who he is and how he leads this squad. Bron is a strong figure, but some of the goofiness and antics are a little over the top.
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          • KG
            Welcome Back
            • Sep 2005
            • 17583

            #215
            Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

            I don't know about the balance part. What Bron lacks in balance on his J he more than makes up for it when attacking the rim. I know strength comes into play when he's finishing through players but he is rarely knocked off his path which requires an insane amount of strength & balance.
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            • Bornindamecca
              Books Nelson Simnation
              • Jul 2007
              • 10919

              #216
              Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

              Hmac, you're my boy, but don't put words in my mouth, man. I've never hinted that Durant will be better than Lebron. In fact, the only definitive thing I've ever said on the subject is that Lebron is a better player.

              Sidenote: THIS is what I mean by the Lebron Defense League. You take something I did not say, write it in stone, and then get a whole argument going to dispute a point that I never made.

              The reason I'm not "going out on that branch", is because both Lebron and Durant are still young players. Their development depends on a lot of decisions they make. As a basketball fan, I always hope that they make those decisions, but you never know how people are going to go. So as I said earlier in this thread, you are always discussing young players in a predictive context.

              Lebron is such a well rounded player, I find it very hard to take that leap, as a basketball fan. Combine that with his youth, and the fact that there is still room to grow, and I don't think there is a solid platform to take that jump from.

              Now that having been said, when you say "on the same level", I take that as a different definition. For me, on the same level means "elite level number one option that may present an apples/oranges comparison." In that case, there might be a difference between the players, but not a difference big enough to greatly influence the wins and losses on its own merit. I think Shaq and Tim Duncan are a great example. You can argue one is better than the other, but with talent around them, they traded championships, which is the bottom line.

              So do I think Durant will be a better player than Lebron James? No. I wouldn't rule it out, but he would still have to make great leaps in areas that he is anemic in. But do I think he will be good enough to battle for championships in the Lebron James era?

              Yes, I think he'll be that good.

              By contrast, in the Michael Jordan era, no one was good enough to battle him for championships in his prime. He was just too far ahead of everyone. I don't think the gap between Lebron and his contemporaries will be that big.
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              • Rocky
                All Star
                • Jul 2002
                • 6896

                #217
                Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                KD and Lebron are goiing to be like Shaq and Duncan?

                Born, I think it's a STRETCH to say that they are even going to be that close.
                "Maybe I can't win. But to beat me, he's going to have to kill me. And to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me. And to do that, he's got to be willing to die himself. I don't know if he's ready to do that."
                -Rocky Balboa

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                • OSUFan_88
                  Outback Jesus
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 25642

                  #218
                  Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                  Durant is a great player.

                  He's not close to being on LeBron's level. Sorry. Not until he develops other parts of his game that doesn't include shooting.
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                  Urban Meyer is lol.

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                  • phenom1990
                    MVP
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 4789

                    #219
                    Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                    I thought I throw this in here; it's a pretty good breakdown on Durant. http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/joh...nsive-machine/
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                    • USF11
                      C*rr*ntly *n L*f* T*lt
                      • Jun 2003
                      • 4245

                      #220
                      Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                      I think comparing two is like comparing apples to oranges.

                      Durant vs. Lebron

                      Is like comparing Bird and Magic.

                      They are asked to do different things.
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                      • ex carrabba fan
                        I'll thank him for you
                        • Oct 2004
                        • 32744

                        #221
                        Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                        Just something I found hilarious. KD's main asset is scoring.. well LBJ doesn't think anyone can challenge him apparently if he really tried.

                        The scoring title will come down between LeBron James, who is at 29.8 points a game and Kevin Durant at 29.7.

                        Both men have played 70 games and James has just seven more total points, 2,086 to Durant's 2,077.

                        Durant has already said he thinks James will win. James says he doesn't care and, if he did, he'd win the scoring race every year.

                        "If it happens, it happens, it is not important to me at all," said James, who won the scoring title in the 2007-08 season and at 27.8 points a game is currently the active leader in career scoring average.

                        "Our team is trying to clinch (homecourt advantage) for the whole playoffs and is more important. If I really wanted to, I if really wanted to win the scoring title I could win it every single year," James said. "Every single year, I could really do it. But it doesn't matter to me."

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                        • FlyRice
                          Lillard Time
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 1280

                          #222
                          Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                          I think he's just saying if all he focused on was scoring and not winning games that he would win it every year, which is probably true.
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                          • 24
                            Forever A Legend
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2809

                            #223
                            Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                            Durant in my mind is alot like a young kobe bryant. has loads of raw potential that can easily e harnessed into making him tops in the league. 5 years from now durant could just be the best in the league


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                            • RoyalKingz17
                              Banned
                              • Jan 2010
                              • 24

                              #224
                              Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                              Durant may give Kobe a run for money come playoff time. He's playing the best basketball right now.
                              Last edited by RoyalKingz17; 03-29-2010, 08:12 PM.

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                              • Bornindamecca
                                Books Nelson Simnation
                                • Jul 2007
                                • 10919

                                #225
                                Re: Durant as good--or better?!?!--than...

                                Right now, looking at both guys, Durant looks like he is in the process of eclipsing Carmelo Anthony. He looks faster, stronger, more agressive, and is attacking the basket at an increasingly high level. I should clarify, Kevin doesn't look stronger than Carmelo. I mean his own speed, strength and attack is improving from what he was doing even as recently as right after the All Star break.
                                Last edited by Bornindamecca; 04-11-2010, 08:47 PM.
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