AI/Grizzlies agree to terminate contract

[KG]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

Too bad George Karl had a *** **** terrible and ill-conceived starting lineup including both AI and Anthony Carter (who somehow played 28 MPG that year). Seriously, it amazes the hell out of me that we were able to win 50 games with that lineup and that AI was able to be as efficient as he was given that he was paired with someone who attracts ZERO attention of defenders in Carter.

If the Nugs hadn't ended up in the 8th seed and run into the Lakers buzzsaw, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

That's all in the past, but seriously, AI's production in Denver was impressive and he was 33 then... using Detroit as an argument that he's washed up is completely ridiculous. If he's "washed up", he was washed up in Denver too because there's no way he lost everything that made him a 26.7 PPG scorer that season in less than 2 years with minimal wear and tear on his body.

slight OT but what is with Karl's love affair with AC? All he can do is push the ball up the court.

[o_capone]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

Too bad George Karl had a *** **** terrible and ill-conceived starting lineup including both AI and Anthony Carter (who somehow played 28 MPG that year). Seriously, it amazes the hell out of me that we were able to win 50 games with that lineup and that AI was able to be as efficient as he was given that he was paired with someone who attracts ZERO attention of defenders in Carter.

If the Nugs hadn't ended up in the 8th seed and run into the Lakers buzzsaw, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

That's all in the past, but seriously, AI's production in Denver was impressive and he was 33 then... using Detroit as an argument that he's washed up is completely ridiculous. If he's "washed up", he was washed up in Denver too because there's no way he lost everything that made him a 26.7 PPG scorer that season in less than 2 years with minimal wear and tear on his body.

Allen Iverson haters can not see this for some reason... I don't know what Iverson did to them, but they hate him so much that they neglect everything you just said.

[Jukeman]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

AI supporters:

What exactly do you think his role should be in this league? What winning team do you think would be better off with AI in the starting lineup?

It doest matter what we think....

I would like him in Denver to tell you the truth...His perfect fit would be Charlotte and not because of LB....If AI was there they would be a legit layoff team and not be headinv to the lottery again..

One year he had a "so called bad year" but still put up better numbers than half of the SG's in the league last year lol..Now he is all of a sudden washed up? Great logic, Sheed is doing great with Bos, his number's dropped last year too....AI's best year was with Denver (post finals) yet I dont remember any AI praising threads 2years ago....Its alot of hate surrounding this man and I dont know why...Nash didnt half a great year last season, is he washed up too? If Nash was a Free agent, should he be a back up after last year too?

[Stumbleweed]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

AC plays solid defense on bigger guys, pushes the tempo, and doesn't take many shots... that's basically it basketball-wise. He probably has a good work ethic in practice and is generally a coaches dream type of player because he just does what he's told and doesn't take many shots.

He's a turnover machine and an assist machine all at once, but one clearly outweighs the other in terms of importance, which is the main problem with AC. To his credit, he's only turned the ball over 3 times through 4 games so far while playing 22 minutes... maybe he's toned down the craziness a bit this year... he'd just make really stupid boneheaded passes.

--------------------------------------------

Born, there are only a few teams with the right mix for AI.. he's a tough fit into any offense, much less one that's already functioning at a high level. It would have to be a team with a large PG or combo guard who defends 2s and yet doesn't control the ball all the time a la Wade. There's no team with that mix right now that I can think of... Charlotte isn't a good team, but they're the closest to having those correct pieces.

The 6th man role is probably the best thing for any given team as well as for his chances of being signed by a decent team and contributing next season, but these idiot teams keep jerking him around on his role. If a team who is winning tells AI "you're going to be our 6th man and you'll be a big part of the team" and he doesn't want to do it, then that's on him and he'll finish his career playing a starting role for a crappy team, which is the other option in my eyes. But when they bring him in with promises of starting or at least being able to compete for the starting job and then stick him on the bench and don't give him a fair chance to get a starting role (remains to be seen in MEM), I don't blame him for reacting the way he does. It's the Grizz's fault for signing the guy if they planned to just use him as a bench player... he clearly feels misled much as he was in DET and it's obviously going to be a sore spot for him after the disrespect and lies that he got from Curry, hence the overboard reaction after 1 game.

But yeah, I agree that his role is probably best as a 6th man as far as contending teams and/or teams that don't have the perfect personnel to surround him with (which is most of them, hence him signing with Memphis). The thing I'm taking issue with here mostly is the assertion that he's washed up or couldn't be productive as a starter anymore. The real question is where could he be productive... and by nature, that question is much more difficult to answer due to the uniqueness of AI as a player. The problem is that the contending teams have their lineups set and would have to bench someone, etc. to make him a starter, which simply isn't happening.. there is a lot more leeway for a team like the Grizz who don't really have a starting 5 that has shown success... and if they didn't indicate that he might not be starting and signed him anyway knowing what happened in DET, that's on them.

And yeah, I agree that Denver would be the best fit for him of the contending teams. Simply because Chauncey could defend the 2 and play mostly off-ball (as he does when Lawson or AC is out on the floor) where he is a deadly shooter while AI would control the ball and create for others. Not happening, but that's the best fit to answer Born's question.

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

I am not an Allen Iverson *****. In fact he is one of my favorite players ever.

But.....

He plays the game in a way that I would never want to play with him. The other night in Sacto he repeatedly over-dribbled. He dribbled not to set up shots for himself or others but simply to dribble. On one play he had a open jumper from 18 feet. Instead of shooting he dribbled and Zach Randolph, who wisely went to go rebound, got called for a 3 second violation. This was typical AI. Instead of taking in flow of the offense shots, shots the set up other players (in this case Randolph fighting for rebound position) he over dribbled.

Allen Iverson is an ineffecient offensive player. He doesn't utilized space or flow. He is the worst kind of half court player. He will be best in Memphis when he is on the court with the backups like Hunter, Thabeet, Carroll and where he can overdribble and shoot.

Defensively Iverson gambles. He isn't strong enough to push players from the spot they are trying to get to (Beno Udrih started to get off with Iverson on the court). Defensively he is average at best. Sometimes great, sometimes horrible = average.

Coming off the bench and leading the second unit is how Iverson can help Memphis. Him starting and playing 40 minutes a night will not help Memphis win or Memphis in the future. Mike Conley's jumper is looking good. He has to guard Point Guards. Mayo is a solid SG, Gay SF, Randolph Pf and Gasol at C.

I have no problem with Iverson saying he wants to play more minutes. But his role is pretty well defined don't you think? Now he needs to accept and play hard or he can do what he did in Detroit.

I hope Iverson does that because I openly root for this dude.

[Jukeman]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

AC plays solid defense on bigger guys, pushes the tempo, and doesn't take many shots... that's basically it basketball-wise. He probably has a good work ethic in practice and is generally a coaches dream type of player because he just does what he's told and doesn't take many shots.

He's a turnover machine and an assist machine all at once, but one clearly outweighs the other in terms of importance, which is the main problem with AC. To his credit, he's only turned the ball over 3 times through 4 games so far while playing 22 minutes... maybe he's toned down the craziness a bit this year... he'd just make really stupid boneheaded passes.

--------------------------------------------

Born, there are only a few teams with the right mix for AI.. he's a tough fit into any offense, much less one that's already functioning at a high level. It would have to be a team with a large PG or combo guard who defends 2s and yet doesn't control the ball all the time a la Wade. There's no team with that mix right now that I can think of... Charlotte isn't a good team, but they're the closest to having those correct pieces.

The 6th man role is probably the best thing for any given team as well as for his chances of being signed by a decent team and contributing next season, but these idiot teams keep jerking him around on his role. If a team who is winning tells AI "you're going to be our 6th man and you'll be a big part of the team" and he doesn't want to do it, then that's on him and he'll finish his career playing a starting role for a crappy team, which is the other option in my eyes. But when they bring him in with promises of starting or at least being able to compete for the starting job and then stick him on the bench and don't give him a fair chance to get a starting role (remains to be seen in MEM), I don't blame him for reacting the way he does. It's the Grizz's fault for signing the guy if they planned to just use him as a bench player... he clearly feels misled much as he was in DET and it's obviously going to be a sore spot for him after the disrespect and lies that he got from Curry, hence the overboard reaction after 1 game.

But yeah, I agree that his role is probably best as a 6th man as far as contending teams and/or teams that don't have the perfect personnel to surround him with (which is most of them, hence him signing with Memphis). The thing I'm taking issue with here mostly is the assertion that he's washed up or couldn't be productive as a starter anymore. The real question is where could he be productive... and by nature, that question is much more difficult to answer due to the uniqueness of AI as a player. The problem is that the contending teams have their lineups set and would have to bench someone, etc. to make him a starter, which simply isn't happening.. there is a lot more leeway for a team like the Grizz who don't really have a starting 5 that has shown success... and if they didn't indicate that he might not be starting and signed him anyway knowing what happened in DET, that's on them.

And yeah, I agree that Denver would be the best fit for him of the contending teams. Simply because Chauncey could defend the 2 and play mostly off-ball (as he does when Lawson or AC is out on the floor) where he is a deadly shooter while AI would control the ball and create for others. Not happening, but that's the best fit to answer Born's question.

Pretty much, this how I feel about one of my other fav players(Nate the Great)

Nate showed that he can be a scorer in this league but do you really want him starting at Point let alone a 5'8 starting SG? Thats going to make him a career backup, unless he do what AI did...

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

Great answer, Stumble.

Looking at this whole thread, aside from a few crazies, the consensus is that Iverson is no longer what he was, and he "was" an elite scorer, but always a ball stopper and volume shooter. Now he does those same things, but he is worse and the league is much better. We have seen several great draft classes and crazy trades since AI's prime.

Everyone with a shred of bball knowledge knows that AI had two choices: learn to play point or be the same scorer, but off of the bench.

He chose "guess so, squish like grape". He wants to be an SG, he wants to be a main scorer, he wants to start, and GMs see no value in what he wants. Neither do I.

He should be doing for Memphis what Crawford is doing for Atlanta. Instead, he's already giving that team Canswer.

[Jukeman]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

I am not an Allen Iverson *****. In fact he is one of my favorite players ever.

But.....

He plays the game in a way that I would never want to play with him. The other night in Sacto he repeatedly over-dribbled. He dribbled not to set up shots for himself or others but simply to dribble. On one play he had a open jumper from 18 feet. Instead of shooting he dribbled and Zach Randolph, who wisely went to go rebound, got called for a 3 second violation. This was typical AI. Instead of taking in flow of the offense shots, shots the set up other players (in this case Randolph fighting for rebound position) he over dribbled.

Allen Iverson is an ineffecient offensive player. He doesn't utilized space or flow. He is the worst kind of half court player. He will be best in Memphis when he is on the court with the backups like Hunter, Thabeet, Carroll and where he can overdribble and shoot.

Defensively Iverson gambles. He isn't strong enough to push players from the spot they are trying to get to (Beno Udrih started to get off with Iverson on the court). Defensively he is average at best. Sometimes great, sometimes horrible = average.

Coming off the bench and leading the second unit is how Iverson can help Memphis. Him starting and playing 40 minutes a night will not help Memphis win or Memphis in the future. Mike Conley's jumper is looking good. He has to guard Point Guards. Mayo is a solid SG, Gay SF, Randolph Pf and Gasol at C.

I have no problem with Iverson saying he wants to play more minutes. But his role is pretty well defined don't you think? Now he needs to accept and play hard or he can do what he did in Detroit.

I hope Iverson does that because I openly root for this dude.

the thing is-

if he wanted that role you speak of, AI wouldnt be in Memphis..

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

if he wanted that role you speak of, AI wouldnt be in Memphis..

Then he lied to the media when they signed him. He said he came here to win, to help the young guys get better.

Any basketball head would tell you how he can help Memphis.

Where else was he going to go? Nobody else wanted him to start....no one....look at the contract he signed.

[o_capone]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

oh well, what happens happens... we'll see how he plays tonight against another team memphis should beat...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

Cebby, im coming for your title of being always right on OS. You better watch your back!!

[Jukeman]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

Then he lied to the media when they signed him. He said he came here to win, to help the young guys get better.

Any basketball head would tell you how he can help Memphis.

Where else was he going to go? Nobody else wanted him to start....no one....look at the contract he signed.

He also said that he wants to start

[o_capone]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

He also said that he wants to start

he definately didn't give that press conference thinking he could help them win by not playing...

[J.R. Locke]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

He also said that he wants to start

he definately didn't give that press conference thinking he could help them win by not playing...

I never heard anyone say what his role was going to be. But we are in reality talking about a washed up player who is playing on a team that will win 30 games....maybe.

I just hope he starts to understand what he can do to help Memphis win.

How many minutes do you think he should play? (I would say around 30) Does that mean starting? (No.)

[str8stuntin03]

Re: Guess who already sounds upset in Memphis

I never heard anyone say what his role was going to be. But we are in reality talking about a washed up player who is playing on a team that will win 30 games....maybe.

I just hope he starts to understand what he can do to help Memphis win.

How many minutes do you think he should play? (I would say around 30) Does that mean starting? (No.)

How is he washed up? I just dont get it