The LeBron James Thread

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Yea, I mean the Lakers had, in a lot of people's mind, a player better than Lebron, plus Gasol, plus Odom, plus Artest/Ariza, Bynum. It's no comparison, I don't see how they had enough to win a championship. Now, they didn't even make it to the finals, so I guess you can argue they underachieved, but to say they had enough where they should have won a championship, I don't buy that.

Not even comparing them to LA, what about Orlando, Atlanta, Boston, SA or even Denver...

I mean these teams just had Cleveland beat in terms of cohesion/talent/coaching.

I can't say Cleveland underachieved at all, they overachieved. They really outdid themselves with winning all of those regular season games.... LeBron had a lot to do with that. It's just unfortunate he quit.

Do the '04 Pistons count?

Kind of.

Rasheed was still somewhat in his prime that year. Somewhat... he definitely was starting to go downhill, though he didn't float around the perimeter like he did in the following years.

Ben Wallace obviously was a monster inside for rebounds... so them combined sort of created a complete post presence.

The 04 Pistons is basically that one team in every 20 years that is the exception to conventional wisdom. So I don't even really count them in these types of discussions.... [oh and I guess the fact that they beat LA in the Finals too]

Who was the last team to win without a Robin/sidekick?

[NYJets]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Not even comparing them to LA, what about Orlando, Atlanta, Boston, SA or even Denver...

I mean these teams just had Cleveland beat in terms of cohesion/talent/coaching.

I can't say Cleveland underachieved at all, they overachieved. They really outdid themselves with winning all of those regular season games.... LeBron had a lot to do with that. It's just unfortunate he quit.

Yea, I mostly agree, I just used the Lakers as an easy comparison since they both had an elite wing player, and then a supporting cast. The other teams in the East were constructed differently

[NC State-31 UNC-27]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

oh come on!
















this is still a saga and you know it.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

This is one of those things that we're just going to disagree on. I'm not saying they would HAVE won a championship, but I am saying that with the team that they had they could have done it. When Bron decided to play they blew the Celtics out of the friggin building, the rest of the series consisted of little to no effort and they lost. Shaq was they're post presence and while a shell of his former self they could have succeeded with him down there in my opinion.

Yes the post season is a different animal from the regular season but you don't just flush what we witnessed there down the toliet using hindsight. Was anybody who watched the Warriors and Mavericks surpised by what happened to them in the first round? No because Golden State did the exact same thing to the Mavs during the season. The Lakers didn't own the Cavs during the regular season, the Magic didn't...not last year anyway. There are several factors that could come into play, the Boston series probably would have gone seven games, the Magic had been sitting around waiting for the winner, that could have played a factor. With Shaq in the lineup and Anthony Parker out there and no Hedo for Orlando we don't know how the dynamics of that matchup would have been different from the previous year. Cleveland could certainly have beaten that Magic team and gone on to the Finals. From there what if Phoenix won and it were the Cavs and Suns in the Finals? Suddenly the Cavs wouldn't have been good enough to beat them? Bynum was pretty much a non factor in the Finals if the Lakers as we saw. Who's to say they couldn't steal one in LA? The point guard matchup is at least one that Mo could have won over Fisher, people are already saying that Bron could best Artest so there is that. Shaq is just too big and physical for Pau who's playing center or at least coming to offer help on him for Bynum. I won't go as far as saying it was a certain that they win a title, but they certainly could have with the team that they had.

But again it's pointless continuing to argue this with each other over and over again because we'll never know now.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Glad to see ya'll still beating that same horse to death about how good those teams were. Never gets old. It does look weird how the Lebrons won 60+ games back to back and never made it to the Finals in either years. I think he probably could HAVE at least gotten to the Finals with that squad. But then again, I seen Jason Kidd turn Chicken **** into Chicken Salad back to back years so if he can do it, then I think Lebron COULD have done it. But anyway...

Atlanta did not have Cleveland beat in terms of Coaching. Don't know who lied and told you that mess lol.

Other than that, I can agree with the rest of that post.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

This is one of those things that we're just going to disagree on. I'm not saying they would HAVE won a championship, but I am saying that with the team that they had they could have done it. When Bron decided to play they blew the Celtics out of the friggin building, the rest of the series consisted of little to no effort and they lost. Shaq was they're post presence and while a shell of his former self they could have succeeded with him down there in my opinion.

Yes the post season is a different animal from the regular season but you don't just flush what we witnessed there down the toliet using hindsight. Was anybody who watched the Warriors and Mavericks surpised by what happened to them in the first round? No because Golden State did the exact same thing to the Mavs during the season. The Lakers didn't own the Cavs during the regular season, the Magic didn't...not last year anyway. There are several factors that could come into play, the Boston series probably would have gone seven games, the Magic had been sitting around waiting for the winner, that could have played a factor. With Shaq in the lineup and Anthony Parker out there and no Hedo for Orlando we don't know how the dynamics of that matchup would have been different from the previous year. Cleveland could certainly have beaten that Magic team and gone on to the Finals. From there what if Phoenix won and it were the Cavs and Suns in the Finals? Suddenly the Cavs wouldn't have been good enough to beat them? Bynum was pretty much a non factor in the Finals if the Lakers as we saw. Who's to say they couldn't steal one in LA? The point guard matchup is at least one that Mo could have won over Fisher, people are already saying that Bron could best Artest so there is that. Shaq is just too big and physical for Pau who's playing center or at least coming to offer help on him for Bynum. I won't go as far as saying it was a certain that they win a title, but they certainly could have with the team that they had.

But again it's pointless continuing to argue this with each other over and over again because we'll never know now.

I don't wanna say they would compete with LA last year, but I wouldn't give them a good chance against them if it were to happen. Especially if Mike Brown was still coaching that team, which mean he would be bound to **** up at one point in that series.

[PrettyT11]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

I dunno Ex, I'm not saying the supporting cast was great, but they were definitely good enough to win a championship. At the end of the day you don't play games on paper you play them on the court. Matchups are how games are won on the court not how a team looks against the other team before they've played a game. Golden State didn't stack up against that Mavs team either but that didn't stop them from pulling the upset in the first round. Oklahoma City's roster didn't exactly stack up against the Lakers and a lucky bounce here or there and we could have had a totally different outcome. Unfortnately there was a whole lot of quitting last year in a very winnable series and so we'll never know the answer.

I disagree. They was not on the level of the Lakers or that of a healthy Celtics team. In fact most people was picking both of those teams over the Cavs. That doesn't include the Magic who they probably would have struggled with as well. They was a contender because of the LeBron.

As far as the Golden State/Dallas thing goes Golden State was the worst possible matchup for Dallas. Nelson built that entire team and knew everything that they did or could do. Throw in the fact that Avery did a horrible coaching job and they lost the series.

[PrettyT11]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Do the '04 Pistons count?

IMO they don't count. Back then Sheed still played on the block and when he decided to play on the block he was unguardable. When he come over to the Pistons his inside outside game put them over the top not to mention his defense. Plus like ex said combine what Sheed did with Wallace's elite level rebounding, shot blocking, and defense and you have a damn good combo in the paint.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

King and Pack, just answer me how you expect Cleveland to compete when

A. LeBron had no Robin/sidekick
B. Cleveland's post presence was a washed up Shaq and a stretch PF in Jamison

Like I asked before, when was the last time a team won a title without a Sidekick or without a post presence?

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Well technically they did compete out there without a "Robin" or a "Post Presence", they just didn't get to the Finals.

Didn't say they could win a title but they at least could have gotten there. If Jason Kidd can take 2 bum *** teams to back to back Finals, then the Best Player in the NBA shouldn't have a problem doing the same problem.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Well technically they did compete out there without a "Robin" or a "Post Presence", they just didn't get to the Finals.

Didn't say they could win a title but they at least could have gotten there. If Jason Kidd can take 2 bum *** teams to back to back Finals, then the Best Player in the NBA shouldn't have a problem doing the same problem.

And when Jason Kidd did it he wasn't going up against a Boston team with 3 HOFers and a top 5 PG or an Orlando team with the best center in the league and a still productive Lewis/Turkoglu/All-Star Nelson.

If Orlando or Boston played when Kidd was in NJ, kiss Kidd's Finals appearances goodbye

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Your right but it is what it is. Lebron still shouldn't have had an issue in at least getting them to the Finals, especially when he took that same HOF laden Boston squad to 7 games without any significant help the year before.

Again, getting there shouldn't have been a problem.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

Getting there shouldn't have been a problem? You don't even believe what you just typed right now

Wow. Get outta here with that mess.

Oh, and 2007 says hello btw

[King_B_Mack]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

And when Jason Kidd did it he wasn't going up against a Boston team with 3 HOFers and a top 5 PG or an Orlando team with the best center in the league and a still productive Lewis/Turkoglu/All-Star Nelson.

If Orlando or Boston played when Kidd was in NJ, kiss Kidd's Finals appearances goodbye

True, but Cleveland showed that they could beat Boston in the series last year without even LeBron's full effort, the team goes as it's leader goes. If Bron didn't give a **** and was trying to get Brown fired or whatever the hell he was doing out there. Why would his soldiers?

Point being though Turk was gone this year, they got Shaq to help with Dwight and Parker would have helped greatly in keeping those shooters in check. Again though, this is a pointless debate cause dude took the can of yellow paint to his back, quit and we have no way of knowing if the team's moves would have payed off in at least getting to the Finals. Hell he took a worse team to the Finals by himself against good Pistons.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: The LeBron James Thread

True, but Cleveland showed that they could beat Boston in the series last year without even LeBron's full effort, the team goes as it's leader goes. If Bron didn't give a **** and was trying to get Brown fired or whatever the hell he was doing out there. Why would his soldiers?

Point being though Turk was gone this year, they got Shaq to help with Dwight and Parker would have helped greatly in keeping those shooters in check. Again though, this is a pointless debate cause dude took the can of yellow paint to his back, quit and we have no way of knowing if the team's moves would have payed off in at least getting to the Finals. Hell he took a worse team to the Finals by himself against good Pistons.

You keep hammering home the point that LeBron quit. We get it man. Everyone on Earth knows LeQuit happened. Nobody would debate that.

The point is that team had no post presence and no Robin. Making matters worse is that they had to get through a loaded Boston team with the best defense in the entire league.

True, but Cleveland showed that they could beat Boston in the series last year without even LeBron's full effort

What do you mean here?