Re: The LeBron James Thread
Nah, y’all don’t.
Nah, y’all don’t.
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#RespectTheCulture -
Re: The LeBron James Thread
I wouldn't pay them Kobe stans any mind that's the same group of "fans" that always blamed Pau when things went wrong as if he wasn't a big part of us winning two championships and he deserved one of those finals mvps. Same group that jump shipped soon as the losing begin after and didn't come back until we landed Bron. They already hated Bron for Kobe stan reasons and just don't want to see him win in LA.
I legit hope your making up that second part, just NO. Definitely was never a higher ceiling without Bron. However they were more fun to watch even when losing and gave effort, also didn't have all this attention and expectations.
Bron took up for the young guy's last night so I guess a step in the right direction for next year if their even still here by thenHorseshoes & HollyWoodComment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
Biggest adjustment LeBron has made is to ignore the all coverage...and I honestly believe he does, to the point of appearing tone deaf...because there's simply no winning with that...
The theme of this year appears to be superstars being emo over how the media has covered them...and they probably get half of the scrutiny. They should take a page out of his book.
He needs to take this extended time off and work on coming back strong next season...I think watching tape even he will see where he's looked flat out uninspired at times. Winning solves everything. The actual Lakers fans, who's main concern is the Lakers success and not his individual failures or how he stacks up to Kobe...will ride with him...Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
While LeBron's passing of MJ on the all time scoring list is admirable there are some subplots to this development.
-Point-making is much easier in today's game than it was in Jordan's salad days. Hand-checkers could afford to play a half step off and still interfere with jumpers and stifle dribble drives. Cutters could be bumped with impunity. Fouls that are ruled flagrant today were mostly just whistled as personal fouls.
-LeBron needed 118 extra games to pass MJ. This with the absurd amount of trey balls being launched.
-Touches. LeBron usually gets 70 plus touches in a game. Much more than MJ ever did. They functioned differently of course with LeBron acting like a point forward and Jordan more of a terminator.
-Energy expended on defense. When Jordan entered the league in 1984 he was already a buzzsaw on the defensive end. No player in history ever played the combination of offense and defense at a level comparable to Jordan.
LBJ didn't even start playing active and attentive defense until the 2007-08 season, his fifth in the NBA.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
LeBron would have been the all time assist leader if he played in the 90's, so I'm not too worried about placing asterisks on his records.Too Old To Game Club
Urban Meyer is lol.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
- I will say there is some give and take here. Zone defenses when they first started becoming implemented, before teams loaded their rotations with a plethora of shooters, did make life extremely difficult on driving lanes, and cutting lanes, hand-checks or not.. A flagrant foul being a common foul still rewards two free throws, so scoring doesn't change. I don't think a hand check bothers Bron much, the impact of them them vs ignoring that they happen now, greatly over-exaggerates what they actually are. Great scorers scored in bunches then, great scorers would score in bunches now. I could understand it a bit more for a player of Curry's stature, I'm not sure anyone would disagree with the notion that Bron has the body/athletic ability to be just fine in any era or under any rules.Originally posted by AlexBrady
Jordan also played the first 7 or so years of his career with a pace more comparable to today's game. Which is a result of more points, rebounds, assist, etc just in shear possession volume. From about 96-2013 the leagues pace was at an all time low.. Had LeBron spent his youthful years playing 40 minutes a night at a pace comparable to today's his total numbers would likely be a bit higher than they already are.
- LeBron needed more games and more 3's, Jordan needed about 1000 more shots. Either angle, they are far and away the two most impressive perimeter scorers to ever play. Especially if you include playoff scoring, and if you include efficiency. Literally nobody comes close to them.
- Jordan is the all time leader in usage. Maybe Bron gets some more back-court touches, but it would be tough to gauge overall touches with Jordan playing a bit before complete player tacking stats. There likely isn't a large difference between the two of them. Bron has led the league in usage 1 time, as opposed to Jordan 8 times, Jordan has taken about 1,000 more shots, his career usage rate is the same as LeBron's single season high.
Like I said, comparing the two of them at that level would be really close, but they way they utilize those touches to score and score efficiently lands them at number 1 and 2 all time for perimeter players regardless. No real ground gained either direction. Their touches whether Jordan is 1 or LeBron is 1 were both utilized better than any other perimeter players over a career.
- Jordan had a higher motor on defense earlier in his career than LeBron did no doubt. I don't think it's completely fair to say total energy expended is a huge difference.. Bron has also had to focus energy on leading the majority of his teams in points, rebounds, assists.. And defenders in today's game are required to cover more ground. You can pull up almost any game and watch them throw the ball into the post 40 times a game and Jordan get to just chill on his man in the corner and not even move, makes it a bit easier to gear up when he does have the ball and for plays where he wanted to jump passing lanes or dive and strip/block bigs.
I would grade that out as fairly close to a wash overall, although LeBron selectively coasting regular season games for the past 5 years or so gives Jordan a bit of and edge here IMO.
To me, him catching Jordan in points isn't a big deal. We knew that would happen so long as he was healthy long enough and played long enough. It's a great achievement for his longevity, but at the end of the day it's a counting stat and he's going to rack up plenty of those.. Not to be ignored, like I said longevity of a great career isn't something to ignore, but it's not exactly a major milestone in my eyes either. Like mentioned before, the way at which the two of them score, the consistency, efficiency, and playoff production already had them both at 1 and 2 all time. Whether LeBron retired as the all-time leading scorer or 8th on the list that fact wouldn't change.
To me, what's more impressive, and often ignored, is the body of work for his total points accounted for. For whatever reason people will gladly recognize the value of play-making and assists for pass first guys like Magic, Stockton, Kidd, but it's often ignored for a score first guy like LeBron. Sure you get the "well he averaged more assists" but the benefit behind them is rarely recognized.. Factoring in total points scored and assisted on LeBron passed Jordan for total points accounted for a few seasons ago. What's crazy is he could finish his career 10,000+ points ahead. That's a number that jumps out to me more than if he passes him in points with the added importance of shooting more 3's.. He's also now ahead of assist heavy guys like Stockton and Magic as well, I believe Stockton was the all time leader in that category until LeBron.
A lot of these other numbers, even advanced numbers, Jordan and LeBron are so far ahead of everyone else that it really doesn't matter where LeBron's end up at this point. A lot of them will reach crazy levels if he plays long enough, but at the end of the day what matters more is how he separated himself from basically everyone else, as Jordan did. LeBron's prime being behind him, I consider most of this stuff a "bonus" rather than deciding factors of his legacy.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
Last year was pure misery for Cavs fans. LeBron was pouting on the court the majority of the year, because he did not like Isaiah Thomas. We can run it back if we'd like to, but from the offseason trade of Irving until he left, he was a pain in the *** to follow.
Many, many, many Cavs fans were ready to let him leave. He gave us a title and so many other moments that he deserved the right. More than a small amount of fans had also been sick of him holding the organization hostage again. LeBron never truly committed to the Cavs long term, and finally the organization took steps to mitigate his impact on him leaving last year. Starting with the Irving trade, they didn't use all their assets in moving all in.
Fans can be ****ty. Particularly fans of just players and not teams. From what I've seen, there are Lakers fans, there are Kobe fans, and then some mix of the two. The Kobe/Mix fans are incredulously hard on LeBron right now because he's, in their mind, proving LeBron isn't better than Kobe. Nevermind that they are getting the Hollywood/LA/End of his prime LeBron and not his best days. They are vocal going about it every game in LA.
All this being said, LeBron struggling in LA will never not be sad to me. This isn't how his end should go. Being mocked in front of some fans that would have never of embraced him. He's being saddled with poor management, poor play on the court around him and now for the first time in his career, injuries. As he gets older, seeing the absolute giant and behemoth that LeBron has been known for go away while in colors he never won anything with is just strange. It's like Jordan with the Wizards strange. I hope the Lakers do something in the next 3 years to give us that glimpse of LeBron again, otherwise I hope he just wraps it up after LA and goes to either CLE or MIA for his farewell tour.Too Old To Game Club
Urban Meyer is lol.Comment
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The LeBron James Thread
Completely reasonable for some Lakers fans to think he decided to play in LA for reasons other than basketball and resent him for it.Comment
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Re: The LeBron James Thread
True that muscular in-your-face defense isn't quite as effective against LBJ. But with hands on defense being permitted LeBron wouldn't be able to blast his way to the rim quite as easily.
In the old days, it was difficult to get the types of unobstructed dunks that LeBron feasts on unless it was an open court/broken field situation. Today, it is easier to penetrate to the rim in the half-court than ever.
LeBron's perimeter game doesn't compare to the all time greats. His long-range shooting is merely adequate and his pull-up mid range game is shaky. If efficiency was the main aim then do you consider DeAndre Jordan to be a more effective shooter than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar?
Only in Jordan's pre triangular seasons did his amount of touches even approach LeBron's. With all those touches LeBron gets to do as he pleases.
The energy expenditure on defense isn't even close between the two.
LeBron's passes are meant to be assists. Unlike Magic, Kidd, and Stockton he doesn't make a simple wing set up pass, cut through, screen, and emerge with new options on the other side. Consequently, his teammates are not constantly involved in the attack, their chops are dulled and they are always waiting for the 'golden pass'. So his style of play isn't quite as beneficial as you believe it is.Last edited by AlexBrady; 03-07-2019, 01:01 PM.Comment
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