What a sad society we live in where we would rather praise the Losers and basically downgrade the Winners, especially in the NBA.
Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
What a sad society we live in where we would rather praise the Losers and basically downgrade the Winners, especially in the NBA.#RespectTheCulture -
Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
It's not a stretch at all. Duncan won a title without a single all-star on his team in 2003 and was the absolute best player in the NBA from '02-'06. He could've won a title in almost any other city. If you put him on the '04 Timberwolves, '06 Mavericks or '02 Kings and they win a championship.
Pau Gasol is the most fortunate player in the NBA right now. He left a horrible situation in Memphis and ended up on championship team without losing anything. His playing in Los Angeles with Kobe Bryant has elevated him in stature beyond his actual output.San Antonio Spurs 5 - Time ('99, '03, '05, '07, '14) NBA Champions
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
Is this one of those "sad society" threads? Can Player A play on a bad team and be better than Player B who is on a good team? Or are the only good players in the NBA the 12 that win a championship each year?Comment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
It will be eventually.Is this one of those "sad society" threads?#RespectTheCultureComment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
I dunno man, Pau Gasol was a helluva player before, he was just in Memphis. I think if you put together a team of the 12 best players from the 3 or 4 worst teams in the NBA, you might have championship team.It's not a stretch at all. Duncan won a title without a single all-star on his team in 2003 and was the absolute best player in the NBA from '02-'06. He could've won a title in almost any other city. If you put him on the '04 Timberwolves, '06 Mavericks or '02 Kings and they win a championship.
Pau Gasol is the most fortunate player in the NBA right now. He left a horrible situation in Memphis and ended up on championship team without losing anything. His playing in Los Angeles with Kobe Bryant has elevated him in stature beyond his actual output.
Minnesota, Sacramento, New Jersey, Washington
Al Jefferson, Corey Brewer, Tyreke Evans, Brook Lopez, Devin Harris, Josh Howard, Kevin Love, Jonny Flynn, Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Courtney Lee, Mike Miller, and Al Thornton... that's a top 4 or 5 team
There are a lot of great players who just don't have the supporting cast to get them anywhere, or are in a place where they can't be the 2nd or 3rd option to a megastar the way Gasol is.Comment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
Very true, Fisher is just like Steve Kerr/Robert Horry. Finding their ways to rings 24/7.How about Derek Fisher? Played most of his career with all the things mentioned AND Kobe. Gotta give the guy some credit for being a big part of WHY those teams were so good, fortunate situation or not.
Same as Kobe, Duncan's gotta get some credit for those teams like you said. I don't know about "anywhere" but those Spurs teams win nothing without him.Comment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
Horry hit some big shots and had some big plays in each of his teams' championship runs. In Houston, LA, and San Antonio.
and Fisher has been instrumental in all of his titles.
not sure if you can say the same about Kerr (other than that game winner in game 6 against Utah in '97)
Cincinnati Reds
UNC Tarheels
Twitter: @st0rmb11
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
Oh no doubt, Horry and Fish have all accomplished great things and contributed much to their rings.
I'm not taking anything away from these "fortunate" players. If MJ got paired with dominant players [Shaq or someone] in his career it wouldn't diminish his own skill set and accomplishments.
Hell look at Magic and Bird and ITComment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
Oh no doubt, Horry and Fish have all accomplished great things and contributed much to their rings.
I'm not taking anything away from these "fortunate" players. If MJ got paired with dominant players [Shaq or someone] in his career it wouldn't diminish his own skill set and accomplishments.
Hell look at Magic and Bird and IT
got ya. misunderstood your post. my apologies.
how fortunate do you guys consider Mr. Rondo?
I know he's developing into quite the individual player, but do you guys think he would have progressed at this same rate without the Big 3?
Cincinnati Reds
UNC Tarheels
Twitter: @st0rmb11
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
Most fortunate: Kobe. No need to explain. I think everyone agrees (joke posts aside) that he is easily the most fortunate player for so many reasons. Dealt the best hand in basketball.
Least fortunate: McGrady.
As much as I hate him (for how he handled the Rockets divorce), the man has been cursed. Bad coaching, management, poor health, teammates being injured, and on down the line for him.
Yep. He did NOT deserve a max contract averaging 30-6-6, and it's his fault that Grant Hill and Yao Ming (max players taking up cap space) were perpetually injured. It's his fault that management couldn't put together an even halfway decent squad with all that money rotting on the bench, and that he was made to literally carry Orlando on his crooked back for 48 minutes a night grinding it out all those years. The teams he had were awesome, McGrady just sucked and couldn't lead all that great talent anywhere.Comment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
That Pistons team was a good squad and LeBron carried the Cavs on his back to get them past the Pistons. Larry Hughes, Boobie Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, Drew Gooden and Big Z were his teammates that year.
The one year TMac is injured during the playoffs, his team was good. This goes entirely against your point that he's fortunate.TMac's team was apparently good enough to win a series in the playoffs and take the best team in the NBA to 7 games without him.
Kobe and Wade struggled mightily when their team wasn't filled with talent, even though they were making max money. The best players get paid the most money. If you don't think a guy averaging 30-6-6 deserves a max contract, I don't know who does. And like Streets said, Grant Hill and Yao Ming were the studs taking up the rest of Orlando's and Houston's salary space. Pau Gasol and Shaq were the other two main guys taking up LA salary. That's a big dropoff for TMac, who took the majority of his career before he was playing with a legitimate starting PG or big man.I didn't mean it from a getting paid standpoint.
If you're taking up 35% of your team's total salary, you can't complain that they aren't building a great team around you especially if your name isn't Kobe, Wade, Duncan, or Lebron.
People like Brand and McGrady are the reasons their teams were in those positions. When you vastly overpay a player you aren't able to get quality help.Comment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
<TABLE class="playerStatTable careerAvg" borderColor=#cccccc cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=1><TBODY><TR class=title><TD class=year>Year</TD><TD class=team>Team</TD><TD>G</TD><TD>GS</TD><TD>MPG</TD><TD>FG%</TD><TD>3P%</TD><TD>FT%</TD><TD>OFF</TD><TD>DEF</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>APG</TD><TD>SPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD><TD>TO</TD><TD>PF</TD><TD>PPG</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class="playerStatTable careerAvg" borderColor=#cccccc cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=1><TBODY><TR class=odd><TD class=yr>04-05</TD><TD class=tm>WAS</TD><TD>61</TD><TD>61</TD><TD>38.7</TD><TD>0.430</TD><TD>0.282</TD><TD>0.777</TD><TD>1.2</TD><TD>5.0</TD><TD>6.3</TD><TD>4.7</TD><TD>2.9</TD><TD>0.3</TD><TD>2.51</TD><TD>2.75</TD><TD>22.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
These are the numbers of Larry Hughes the year before he played with LeBron, you know, the guy that makes everyone on his team better. He led the league in steals and was All-Defense 1st team that year. Big Z was still a pretty good player at that time (the year they had the cake walk to the finals). The excuses for "King" James are beyond belief at this point. He plays in the East. If he played in the West he would be lucky to get out of the first round, just like Mcgrady. Time to face facts folks. LeBron is nothing like Jordan or Kobe. He needs to start being compared to Nique, another stat stuffing LOSER."In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach. Then, in the afternoon, he would go out and cheat kids who had probably saved up money from mowing lawns to buy those raffle tickets. That's Jim Tressel."Comment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
Almost forget the irony of people acting like Wade had any help at all in 06, when he won a ring. Shaq was better last year than he was during that year in Miami. LeBron played with a better version of Shaq than Wade did during that season. But somehow it's " oh Wade won a ring because he had Shaq", but with LeBron it's "poor LeBron has no help". Wade has had WAY less fortune than LeBron has, he just willed his team to a title, something LeBron never has, or will for that matter. Change your "unfortunate" career LeBron and go ride coattails for a ring. You've proven you can't be the best player on a championship team."In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach. Then, in the afternoon, he would go out and cheat kids who had probably saved up money from mowing lawns to buy those raffle tickets. That's Jim Tressel."Comment
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
While I agree with the basis of your post (about LeBron not being the least bit unfortunate), I must disagree with the comment that LeBron played with a better Shaq than Wade.Almost forget the irony of people acting like Wade had any help at all in 06, when he won a ring. Shaq was better last year than he was during that year in Miami. LeBron played with a better version of Shaq than Wade did during that season. But somehow it's " oh Wade won a ring because he had Shaq", but with LeBron it's "poor LeBron has no help". Wade has had WAY less fortune than LeBron has, he just willed his team to a title, something LeBron never has, or will for that matter. Change your "unfortunate" career LeBron and go ride coattails for a ring. You've proven you can't be the best player on a championship team.
Be real. This past year Shaq averaged 12 points and 6.7 boards. In 2006 he put up 20 points and 9.2 rebounds. and even more importantly, in the playoffs this year he averaged 11 and 5. In 2006, he averaged 18 and 10.
the biggest difference, however, is that in 2006 Shaq was still feared by defenses. Coaches and teams still doubled him in the post and tried to keep the ball out of his hands, thus giving Wade opportunities from the perimeter. Shaq wasn't feared this year at all. Darko Milicic wouldn't have feared Shaq this year. The defenses could still focus on LeBron (and Mo or whoever else was hot that night).
So, while I agree that LeBron "supporting cast" over the years doesn't get nearly enough credit, I must say that you could have found better ways to support that than by saying that Shaq was better with LeBron than he was with Wade.
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UNC Tarheels
Twitter: @st0rmb11
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Re: Who are the most fortunate and unfortunate NBA players
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=cBSideBlack noWrap>While I agree with the basis of your post (about LeBron not being the least bit unfortunate), I must disagree with the comment that LeBron played with a better Shaq than Wade.
Be real. This past year Shaq averaged 12 points and 6.7 boards. In 2006 he put up 20 points and 9.2 rebounds. and even more importantly, in the playoffs this year he averaged 11 and 5. In 2006, he averaged 18 and 10.
the biggest difference, however, is that in 2006 Shaq was still feared by defenses. Coaches and teams still doubled him in the post and tried to keep the ball out of his hands, thus giving Wade opportunities from the perimeter. Shaq wasn't feared this year at all. Darko Milicic wouldn't have feared Shaq this year. The defenses could still focus on LeBron (and Mo or whoever else was hot that night).
So, while I agree that LeBron "supporting cast" over the years doesn't get nearly enough credit, I must say that you could have found better ways to support that than by saying that Shaq was better with LeBron than he was with Wade.
</TD><TD class=cBCompBlack vAlign=top align=left width="100%" height="100%"><!--sc--><TABLE class=" gSGTable" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><!-- the title --><TBODY><TR><TD class="bar gSGSectionTitle" colSpan=16>PLAYER AVERAGES </TD></TR><TR><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings></TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings></TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings></TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings></TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings></TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings></TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings></TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=middle colSpan=3>REBOUNDS </TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings colSpan=6></TD></TR><TR class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=left width=90>Player</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>G</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=30>GS</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>MPG</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>FG%</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>3p%</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>FT%</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=40>OFF</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=30>DEF</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=30>TOT</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=40>APG</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>SPG</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>BPG</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>TO</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>PF</TD><TD class=gSGSectionColumnHeadings noWrap align=right width=35>PPG</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=" gSGTable" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 border=0><TBODY><TR align=right><TD class=gSGRowEven style="MARGIN-LEFT: 3px" align=left>Shaquille O'Neal </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>6 </TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>6</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>35.2</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>.607</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>.000</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>.292</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>2.50</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>7.70</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>10.20</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>2.8</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>.50</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>.83</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>3.17</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven>3.70</TD><TD class=gSGRowEven style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 3px">13.7</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Do borrow a phrase from Jim Mora, Shaq didn't do "diddley poo out there". Hardly dominant by any measure. Wade, of all the superstars in HISTORY, came closest to winning a ring by himself.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>"In the morning he would read the Bible with another coach. Then, in the afternoon, he would go out and cheat kids who had probably saved up money from mowing lawns to buy those raffle tickets. That's Jim Tressel."Comment

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