What's wrong with the Knicks?

[Streets]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

I don't think there's anything wrong with them. They just aren't that good of a team. Ex has been killing this thread and basically hit the nail on the head. The thing is, they'll still make the playoffs and get bounced in the first round. If anyone expected more than that, then the problem isn't the Knicks at all.

During the offseason, I was getting mad at people saying they were going to get one or two of the big three because "it's New York". However, after seeing them perform, and the fact they are still Melo's clear cut number one choice, I take it back. "Because it's New York" is the only reason I could see Melo going there over NJ, Hou, or even staying in Denver. I was one of few who respected LeBron because he wasn't motivated by fame or fortune, but really wanted to win (to the point where he's go to another rman's team to do it). I wonder what Melo's motivation is?

[ehh]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

I'd rather watch the Nets - at least they play with heart. Mike D'Anfoni is a joke.

Amar'e putting the Knicks on blast;

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ling_1049.html

Amare is definitely right about the culture, the only returning pieces to the team are young and all they know in the NBA is what they experienced in the last 2-3 years when the organization was throwing away seasons to free cap space. None of those guys know how to win because they were never expected to or supposed to win.

The D as bad or worse than last year, the effort and smarts aren't there. This is the cotdamn NBA, how do so many players on one team not understand "ball-you-man" is beyond me. That's the first thing you're taught when you're in elementary school - move your feet and ball-you-man. There are so many easy buckets given up because someone turns their head, loses sight of their man and the guy cuts to the tin for a layup. It's disgusting and inexcusable.

Some Knick fans seem to think the D and rebounding is the only problem, the offense is equally poor though. As Amare said, they get no easy baskets. They also go through long stretches of only shooting jumpshots and take so many long 2's that it makes you scratch your head.

We all know there are major deficiencies with the roster but right now this is mostly on D'Antoni. You have to adjust your game plan to SOME degree to the talent you have. There are plenty of other headscratchers - how do you play a 2-3 zone against Minny for so long where you leave Landry Fields the responsibility of boxing out Kevin Love?

At this point I think 30 wins will be an achievement and I don't think they playoffs are an obtainable goal anymore. I don't view this debacle as the team needing time to gel and come together. The effort isn't there and that's inexcusable. It's already reached a point that the NY media calling for Eddy Curry to be the savior.

[NYJets]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

I don't know why people thought the Lee for Amare switch (plus Randolph who has never done anything) would result in a couple dozen more wins.

Nobody thought that.

[Vast]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

It comes down to predictability and the inability for anyone on their roster to be dynamic on offense. We all know it's going to be a PnR with Felton/Amare. Opposition is able to force Amare out of position and catches the ball way too far from the basket.

Chandler is probably a legit starter but he just doesn't cut it in terms of carrying the creativity load as a wing.

Gallo and Fleton are probably a legit starters but they're both extremely predictable.

Landry, I like that kid. Still he's only a rookie.

Amare suffers due to all of that.

On defense, it's the same old story with that coach and that cast of characters.

Thats what we assumed they would do. but Dude they don't run the pick and roll. They Iso Amare 18 feet from the basket and expect that to work. Its ****ing ridiculous bro.

[Altimus]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Is this an overall this season question or in the last decade?

[NYJets]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Thats what we assumed they would do. but Dude they don't run the pick and roll. They Iso Amare 18 feet from the basket and expect that to work. Its ****ing ridiculous bro.

Yea, I think I'm actually more pissed about the offense than the defense so far. I never expected the defense to be that great, and at least they were showing some improvement before Turiaf got hurt. But there's so much they could be doing on offense that they aren't. It's just jack up 3's, or give the ball to Amare and get out of the way. Gallo has all these tools and unique skills, but they just leave him in the corner. Him and Amare could be deadly in a 2 man game. Chandler is shooting 29% from 3, but he keeps jacking them up. In our 3 wins however, he's only attempted 8.

[roadman]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Yea, I think I'm actually more pissed about the offense than the defense so far. I never expected the defense to be that great, and at least they were showing some improvement before Turiaf got hurt. But there's so much they could be doing on offense that they aren't. It's just jack up 3's, or give the ball to Amare and get out of the way. Gallo has all these tools and unique skills, but they just leave him in the corner. Him and Amare could be deadly in a 2 man game. Chandler is shooting 29% from 3, but he keeps jacking them up. In our 3 wins however, he's only attempted 8.

As I watched the Bucks vs Knicks game, I saw a few things.

1. The Knicks chuck a lot of 3's.
2. The defense against the Bucks was, in a word, lacking. To allow Bogut to trail down the court and get a slam dunk, is atrocious.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

We gonna have to have this discussion about D'Antoni and defense AGAIN? This might be the biggest misconception in the NBA...can't believe it's still going on.

Anyway, like I said, its personnel. Felton is good but he's not one of the top distributive PGs in the game, you have a pure shooter in Gallinari but he's not a bulldog on D like Raja, Wilson Chandler is like, 1/8th of Shawn Marion, and there is no Kurt Thomas-type to put along with Amare to allow him to do what he does best.

Amare was not entirely to blame for Love's night. A) He's never been an insane rebounder and B) He was off the court with foul trouble for most of the 3rd where Love got the majority of his boards.

Will it get done in NY like it got done in Phoenix? Probably not, that was the perfect storm of everything, but the right guys aren't there yet. We'll see.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

We gonna have to have this discussion about D'Antoni and defense AGAIN? This might be the biggest misconception in the NBA...can't believe it's still going on.

Anyway, like I said, its personnel. Felton is good but he's not one of the top distributive PGs in the game, you have a pure shooter in Gallinari but he's not a bulldog on D like Raja, Wilson Chandler is like, 1/8th of Shawn Marion, and there is no Kurt Thomas-type to put along with Amare to allow him to do what he does best.

Amare was not entirely to blame for Love's night. A) He's never been an insane rebounder and B) He was off the court with foul trouble for most of the 3rd where Love got the majority of his boards.

Will it get done in NY like it got done in Phoenix? Probably not, that was the perfect storm of everything, but the right guys aren't there yet. We'll see.

Your comments about D'Antoni and having the right personnel for what he wants to do is correct.

However:

What D'Antoni wants to do...DOES.NOT.WORK.

I don't care what the hell he did in Phoenix. I don't care what he did in Italy or wherever he came from.

It's been said already, but he does NOT:
-call Pick & Rolls for Amare (why...I have no idea why not)

-get Gallo the ball with space (keeps him in the corners for spot up 3s)

-call plays for Amare besides Elbow (which is give Amare the ball 2 steps inside the 3 point line and clear the F out)

-settle on a rotation and stick to it

-know how to coach Defense.

Plain and simple. His act is tiring.

They need to get Jeff Van Gundy and cut this fraud loose.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Damn not even 3 years in and NYers already want the dude gone LOL. Reading some of the posts on some the Knicks Boards and you would've thought Lawrence Frank was coaching the team with the way they're dogging the Coach.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Your comments about D'Antoni and having the right personnel for what he wants to do is correct.

However:

What D'Antoni wants to do...DOES.NOT.WORK.

I don't care what the hell he did in Phoenix. I don't care what he did in Italy or wherever he came from.

It's been said already, but he does NOT:
-call Pick & Rolls for Amare (why...I have no idea why not)

-get Gallo the ball with space (keeps him in the corners for spot up 3s)

-call plays for Amare besides Elbow (which is give Amare the ball 2 steps inside the 3 point line and clear the F out)

-settle on a rotation and stick to it

-know how to coach Defense.

Plain and simple. His act is tiring.

They need to get Jeff Van Gundy and cut this fraud loose.

Why do you think those things aren't happening? Because the right guys aren't there. It's dumb to run iso plays for Amare all the time, yes. Amare isn't as quick as he once was, so you can't do that all the time.

One of the biggest knocks on him with Phoenix was that he settles on his top 7 or 8 and then forgets about the rest. If he's not settled on a consistent rotation, then that's because the guys aren't there or doing what he wants.

He "doesn't know how to coach defense", yet his team was 17th in opponents FG% in 2006, and was even a top 10 squad until Kurt Thomas went down in February. In 2007, our opponents FG% was 14th. Again, not world-beating, but damn solid considering we were by far and away the best offensive team in the league. In 2004-05, we were in the top half of opponents FG% and THIRD in guarding the three point line. We were also top 5 teams in points per shot those years.

For the last time, its rebounding that was the problem with those teams. I don't get how you can sit here and say it "DOES NOT WORK" when the Suns had four 50 win seasons, had a 2x MVP, and went to the WCF twice (should have been 3 times) during D'Antoni's run.

Like I said, it's not going to work exactly the same in NY, but to call him a "fraud" is freakin' absurd in every sense of the word, especially since he doesn't have nearly the pieces necessary to make it work even similarly to Phoenix. You can't sit there and say you don't care about what he did in his other gigs then complain that he's a "fraud", and that his style just "DOES NOT WORK"

If you want JVG to come in and work with guys like Gallinari and Amare and turn that team into defensive stalwarts, well, that's crazy.

Patience, dude. See what happens if/when the Knicks get more pieces.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Why do you think those things aren't happening? Because the right guys aren't there. It's dumb to run iso plays for Amare all the time, yes. Amare isn't as quick as he once was, so you can't do that all the time.

One of the biggest knocks on him with Phoenix was that he settles on his top 7 or 8 and then forgets about the rest. If he's not settled on a consistent rotation, then that's because the guys aren't there or doing what he wants.

He "doesn't know how to coach defense", yet his team was 17th in opponents FG% in 2006, and was even a top 10 squad until Kurt Thomas went down in February. In 2007, our opponents FG% was 14th. Again, not world-beating, but damn solid considering we were by far and away the best offensive team in the league. In 2004-05, we were in the top half of opponents FG% and THIRD in guarding the three point line. We were also top 5 teams in points per shot those years.

For the last time, its rebounding that was the problem with those teams. I don't get how you can sit here and say it "DOES NOT WORK" when the Suns had four 50 win seasons, had a 2x MVP, and went to the WCF twice (should have been 3 times) during D'Antoni's run.

Like I said, it's not going to work exactly the same in NY, but to call him a "fraud" is freakin' absurd in every sense of the word, especially since he doesn't have nearly the pieces necessary to make it work even similarly to Phoenix. You can't sit there and say you don't care about what he did in his other gigs then complain that he's a "fraud", and that his style just "DOES NOT WORK"

If you want JVG to come in and work with guys like Gallinari and Amare and turn that team into defensive stalwarts, well, that's crazy.

Patience, dude. See what happens if/when the Knicks get more pieces.

A 2-time MVP and an All-Star PF will make someone look like a coaching genius, won't it?

And Gallo is actually a good defensive player. And the Knicks have some shotblockers on the team. You would never know it though because Defense is never emphasized.

[CMH]

The problem with blaming the personnel and not D'Antoni is excusing him from being a coach.

I agree that the roster is weak and is not built to handle the offense D'Antoni made popular in Phoenix, but -

And this is important. He's getting paid a lot of money for this -

But, a coach is supposed to know how to adapt to his personnel. D'Antoni acknowledges that the team needs work but doesn't do something about it. He selfishly pushes his offensive sets despite not having players that can play to it.

If he is such an offensive genius why does he not find a way to exploit the strengths of the roster.

Fans realize this team isn't great. We know they won't win 45 games. But we do expect that the coach will make the best of his personnel. He's not doing that. His actions are that of a man that refuses to see he is wrong and needs to try something different.

Sent from my mobile device.

[PrettyT11]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Matrix couldn't it be that the players he had with the Suns made his system and him as a coach better than what he actually is?? I mean you guys had three legit all stars(one was a two time MVP), a young future all star in Joe Johnson, and some very good role players. I mean you guys really haven't missed him at all. Gentry is 77-45 with you guys and made a WCF as well. He is 177-226 before then. I believe it is more the players you guys have/had than Mike being a great coach. I mean the Knicks aren't any better with Mike than they was with Isiah and that is saying something.

[ehh]

Re: What's wrong with the KNICKS?

Yup, CMH. That's what most Knick fans are getting more and more upset with. Why are there no adjustments? Let alone in-game, for the entire damn season.

Why is Wilson Chandler still shooting 3's when every stat you can find says he's a better player and we're a better team when he's not shooting them. Just because of the green light system he's in?

How does D'Antoni expect Gallo to "make the jump this year" and then not feature him in the offense any more than the last two years? Can he at least get one game, hell one quarter, of experimenting with PNR with Amare? Can he do something besides stand on the perimeter and wait for a pass from Amare or Felton?


Bottom line is that it's clear that the offensive strategy as is is not working. So we're just going to sit there and let it fail over and over again because it's "his system"? We can't try something new? Try an adjustment or two?