What's wrong with the Knicks?

[NYJets]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Great post! The only thing wrong with the Knicks is people who overrate them. Otherwise, they are who we thought they were. To hear people tell it, it's simple... D'Antoni is the problem. He may be A problem, but this has been a bad organization from the head executives on down to the last guy on the bench for YEARS. A coaching change won't fix that. Hiring Jeff Van Gundy and and getting Carmelo won't turn this team into championship contenders either (though they'd be better than they are currently). There are many things wrong with the Knicks when you look at the organization, but the biggest thing is people expecting more than what's there.

Who overrated them? Nobody thought the Knicks would win 50 games. People expected them to be a little bit better than last year, and hopefully contend for one of the last 2 playoff spots in a weak eastern conference. I don't see how that was unreasonable. Right now, they are on pace to be worse than last year, and they haven't exactly played the toughest schedule so far either.

[Streets]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Who overrated them? Nobody thought the Knicks would win 50 games. People expected them to be a little bit better than last year, and hopefully contend for one of the last 2 playoff spots in a weak eastern conference. I don't see how that was unreasonable. Right now, they are on pace to be worse than last year, and they haven't exactly played the toughest schedule so far either.

I guess the problem is, "What's wrong with the Knicks?" is a vague question, and I admit that through my own bias I take that to mean that they should be MUCH better than they are and it's some sort of great mystery that they are struggling.

I'm obviously wrong in my thinking, but the original question is still kind of vague as you can point to a lot of things including executive decisions (overpaying Amare, mortgaging the future to try and nab LeBron and Wade), players (having no leader, Amare needing a superstar play-maker like Nash, players having the big "P" potential but not putting it together consistently on the court), coaching (which has been talked about to death), chemistry (the team is experiencing a large amount of new pieces and it takes time to gel), the overall culture of losing (it's been awhile since there's been a sense of urgency in NY).

It's a lot of things though really. If they tried building through the draft instead of going the Miami route things would be different, if they had the right players around D'Antoni things would be different, if they had the right coach around the players, it would be different, but it's not. It is what it is.

[cbjr]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Precisely, they have a better roster than last year, but right now they are on pace to do worse. I realize it's early in the season and anything can happen, but I believe many people especially myself expected to see a better product thus far

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Nobody was proclaiming they'd win 50 games or a second round appearance, but I frequent two large message boards, this being one of them, and there was definitely a sense of "we will for sure make the playoffs" from Knick fans.

I said all along that they could just as easily finish with the same record as New Jersey, and 8/10 NYK fans got offended. People, especially NYK fans did tend to put themselves over most Eastern conference fodder when the Knicks themselves are in fact trash.

[Streets]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Precisely, they have a better roster than last year, but right now they are on pace to do worse. I realize it's early in the season and anything can happen, but I believe many people especially myself expected to see a better product thus far

I think it's definitely frustrating for Knicks fans, but it is early. I still think they will barely sneak into the playoffs and be fine. Patience is a hard thing to have, but it's needed when adding so many key pieces.

I can sympathize though. My Rockets are performing GOD AWFUL despite having some great pieces and good coaching. Yes we have injuries, but we should be used to that by now. Plus, we were bad even before getting hit with all the injuries.

[sportyguyfl31]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

I agree that D'antoni needs to 'get the job done', but the question is: What do you expect that job to be? Realistically.

His system looks a hell of a lot better when he has Nash, Barbosa, Stat, and Marion running around out there.

I dont see how anyone can think that this is anything other then a 35-41 win team, with what is on the roster right now.

Now if the Knicks can pull off a Pau Gasol type 'Melo robbery, I'd welcome it with open arms, but I dont think that will happen.

[NYJets]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Nobody was proclaiming they'd win 50 games or a second round appearance, but I frequent two large message boards, this being one of them, and there was definitely a sense of "we will for sure make the playoffs" from Knick fans.

I said all along that they could just as easily finish with the same record as New Jersey, and 8/10 NYK fans got offended. People, especially NYK fans did tend to put themselves over most Eastern conference fodder when the Knicks themselves are in fact trash.

I actually went back and looked because I have too much free time right now, and the only thing I saw even close to this was this thread:

http://www.operationsports.com/vBull...-thread-2.html

If there was a sense of "we will make the playoffs," it had a lot more to do with underrating the other bottom teams, than overrating the Knicks. Almost everyone was thinking 35-40 wins.

[Jeffx]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

I think the major concern is the effort on the court. No one that follows the Knicks and understands basketball expects this team to be very good. Heck, I doubt many expect them to be good.

But, when you have a coach that is touted as one of the best offensive minds in the game and you boast a new roster that is indeed better than the one from last year, the team should perform better on the court.

It's not about wins and losses so much right now. It's about seeing the team growing and working hard. Fans won't boo the Knicks if they fought in every game but still came up short. They boo because the team's plan of attack is weak and their effort is lacking.

When that happens and you've had so much turnover in the roster, you have to start looking at the man in charge and that's Mike D'Antoni. Donnie Walsh has done a fine job of getting the Knicks below the cap which is what many fans wanted for years. Isiah Thomas argued that we didn't, but he's Thomas and there's a reason no one but Dolan wants to see him around a basketball arena again.

Walsh is excused from this because he did his job up to this point. He got below the cap, signed an All-Star player (even if he had to do it above his actual worth. We understand he had no choice), and gave the team flexibility heading into next off-season.

Now the coach needs to do his job. He hasn't. And that's what's wrong with the Knicks on the court. Off the court is another story. We know there's a lot more work to be done but that work won't be done until the NBA and David Stern finds a way to remove Dolan from ownership.

Can I get an AMEN with this?

Forget about the morons at fan sites and on Facebook. Realistic Knicks fans expected 35-40 wins, and effort on defense. It's D'Amphony's style that's ticking me off. It doesn't fit this this team, so why not adjust to what you have? Drawing up three-point plays for Amar'e is stupid. Work the offense from the inside-out. And can we hire an assistant to teach these fools the meaning of team defense? This team is as unwatchable as Isiah's Knicks, and that's saying something.

And give Anthony Randolph more PT. If he's doing something wrong, then coach him up!

[CMH]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

I agree that D'antoni needs to 'get the job done', but the question is: What do you expect that job to be? Realistically.

His system looks a hell of a lot better when he has Nash, Barbosa, Stat, and Marion running around out there.

I dont see how anyone can think that this is anything other then a 35-41 win team, with what is on the roster right now.

Now if the Knicks can pull off a Pau Gasol type 'Melo robbery, I'd welcome it with open arms, but I dont think that will happen.

His system is definitely better with Nash, Barbosa, STAT and Marion running around.

And since he doesn't have those guys, maybe he can, oh, I don't know...adjust?

I'm not patronizing you. I just think it really is that simple. He's supposed to know how to generate offense so why doesn't he do that? He's being extremely stubborn by insisting that the players are not committing to the offensive style he preaches when perhaps he should consider that the offensive style he preaches is not committed to the players.

D'Antoni can still have a run-and-gun system. That's what he does and it can be effective. But, all he brought to the Knicks is run and shoot threes. That's not an effective style for a team that does not have enough three point shooters.

There are quite a few mid-range jump shooters on the Knicks. Why doesn't he find a way to make that happen?

I guarantee you that the players are shooting threes as much as they are because D'Antoni tells them too. I mean, the man and his assistant coaches have stated that several times during post-game interviews.

And yes, they should be a 35-40 win team. Early in the season they looked like a 35 win team that could have 40+ if they got lucky here and there with a few elite teams.

Right now, they look like a 25 win team. Does that roster really say 25 wins?

[Vast]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

There's nothing wrong with the Knicks.

The Knicks are what they should be, if you look at that roster.

The 'problem' with the Knicks, is the NBA2k-ification and ESPN-ification of the NBA fan.

These fans continue to believe that Amare Staudamire is something that he is not. Amare is a finisher. He isnt a shot creator-go to scorer. If you are waiting for him to rebound and bang in the paint, it isnt going to happen.

They think that because Galinari is tall, european, and can shoot, that he is a potential Dirk Nowitski clone.


They believe that Raymond Felton is a borderline-allstar caliber PG.

The team is missing a go-to, crunch time scorer.

Trading for 'Melo wont make much sense. You'd have to give up depth and decent pieces, just to become the Atlanta Hawks: A team that will win 50 games, and win 1 playoff round, but will be capped out, unable to add the 3rd piece of the puzzle...and will end up with a grumpy 'Melo, 4 years from now.

They are much better off, adding that kind of player through free agency.

We knew A'mare was a finisher and a scorer. We knew he wasn't a shot creator. We also should have known that A'mare wasn't a rebounder, his career stats prove that. His performances in the playoffs last year proved that.
A teenage cheeser in 2k11 uses A'mare in a more intelligent and efficient way than D'antoni.

Nobody thinks Gallo is gonna be Dirk. Nobody thinks Felton is an all-star.

Everybody can see that the Offense that D'anpony uses is elementary at best. It's like as if he has plan A and thats it. And plan A is a terrible plan that ignores what his players strenghts are.

If the computer AI in 2k11 for the Knicks ran their offense like in real life i'd be complaining about the terrible one dimensional completely unrealistic A.I.

[bigfnjoe96]

Great, now AR is in the doghouse & Pringles reason is "we need to win some games right now"

I guess it's AR fault we can hit a 3 if our lives depended on it. Probably our most athletic big is now riding pine. Great job Pringles

Sent from my Awesome Phone via tapatalk

[Jeffx]

Re: What's wrong with the Knicks?

Great, now AR is in the doghouse & Pringles reason is "we need to win some games right now"

I guess it's AR fault we can hit a 3 if our lives depended on it. Probably our most athletic big is now riding pine. Great job Pringles

Sent from my Awesome Phone via tapatalk

And as we've seen, D'Amphony's doghouse runs deep - takes a lot to get out of it. We won't be seeing AR for a while.