11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

[iAM-IncReDiBLe-]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

Stop it.

Nobody ever said Cleveland was "talentless".

It's hilarious that people continue to say this type of thing.

Thats a blatant lie, you may have not said it but plenty of people here have. I also don't care enough to look up post saying it but I know most of you have seen it.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

*Sigh*

If only Basketball was a 36 minute game instead of 48...

And for all the folks saying "They should bring back Pat Riley, etc..." , You do know that firing Spoelstra still doesn't solve some of the problems/issues they're having right now, right? And besides that, how you even know he even WANTS to come back and deal with what Spoelstra's dealing with?

[HHHRVD55]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

So what would you guys do if you were in Spoelstra's place? I know I would bench Lebron for at least one game for bumping me. It might piss him off, but he needs to learn that the coach is in charge, not him.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

I think its absurd to think that Riley doesn't have his input anyway. I REALLY doubt Spoelstra is the only one making decisions and having influence on the team.

Bottom line is that it's a bad match of talent. Anyone who knew anything would be able to tell you this from the beginning.

You can't have two alpha-male ball-dominating wingmen and a guy down low who doesn't really play down low.

[Cleric13]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

So what would you guys do if you were in Spoelstra's place? I know I would bench Lebron for at least one game for bumping me. It might piss him off, but he needs to learn that the coach is in charge, not him.

the same thing that I would do in any team.... a lot of bench for those who are not willing to do what I said... I probably could say "defence, defence and more defence, and now". I saw at least 8 heat games and I tell you, awfull defence.
And "bench for those who" means anyone, Mr. Chosen One, Mr. D-Franchise-Wade, Mr. I-don't-want-to-defence-because-I-am-better-at-the-offense-side-Bosh. Anyone.
And I would ask a lot of ball movement on offensive, I know that it is like kill the Lebron game, I don't care, the Heat aren't the Cavs, he must adapt himself to a new team, to a new rol. So must D-Wade, he is really off-line, he is playing as bad as never...

[Moses Shuttlesworth]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

D. Rose is putting up MVP numbers night after night. Beauty to watch.

If you guys start winning more games and he gets more assists I would agree. Just IMO though, because he is a PG after all.

[OSUFan_88]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

So what would you guys do if you were in Spoelstra's place?

Kill myself?

I don't know...but having to deal with Wade's ineffectiveness, Bron's ego and Bosh's want to "chill", I don't think I could manage that team.

There is absolutely nothing Spoelstra can do. He could sit Bron for a game or Wade for a game...or he could sit Bosh. There is nothing he can do in style that can change how they are playing on the court.

People can talk about running plays and the like, but neither Wade nor Bron are going to actually run plays. What they do best is ISO and neither of them are willing to change it up.

[NC State-31 UNC-27]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

the problem is clear...(besides them having no talent besides their "big 3)

LeBron is 100% a one-man show. He can take a poor team and make them good, but put him on a team with other talented players and he makes them worse. He uses the ball too much and too often jacks up low percentage shots from the outside. He shows low basketball IQ in terms of running plays and passing the basketball aside from finding open 3 point shooters. He's the one-man show, not a piece of your puzzle you want trying to run an offense.

Put LeBron on the Lakers or Celtics...does he make them better or worse? Worse, and it's not a question. Thats the true sign of the value of an NBA player, and why a lot of these wing/slasher/"star" players are all overrated.

On a good team, give me Rondo over LeBron any day.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

Stop it.

Nobody ever said Cleveland was "talentless".

It's hilarious that people continue to say this type of thing.

People have often called Lebron's supporting cast in Cleveland "trash", "garbage" and compared them to the first round exit Lakers teams, which were talentless aside from Odom who was not always healthy at the time.

I think its absurd to think that Riley doesn't have his input anyway. I REALLY doubt Spoelstra is the only one making decisions and having influence on the team.

Bottom line is that it's a bad match of talent. Anyone who knew anything would be able to tell you this from the beginning.

You can't have two alpha-male ball-dominating wingmen and a guy down low who doesn't really play down low.

It's almost tempting to go back through the old Miami threads and see who "knew anything."

[elprez98]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

It's almost tempting to go back through the old Miami threads and see who "knew anything."

Oh that would be fun.

The season isn't over, but right now the Heat are looking exposed as what I expected them to be. The desperately need a play-making point guard with range. Doesn't have to be outrageously quick, but needs range and vision. Maybe a Kirk Heinrich or Raymond Felton would fit well with Miami.

[faster]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

What they need to do is move Wade or LeEgo and move Bosh for someone with a heart who can play physical. That won't happen, just saying. I'd much rather be the Bulls with an unstoppably quick PG in Rose who WILL work his butt off, a worker in Noah, and a growing, willing cast of others.

[elprez98]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

Does Rose play at this level with a Melo or Lebron on the Bulls? I'm going to have to say no. I think the Bulls made a great decision.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

Here are some fun quotes from BEFORE the Decision.

Just to clarify, I think Miami *can* win with those three. It's just that they have a better chance if they go for roleplayers rather than a third superstar, IMO. I even think Lebron and Wade can work, but you have to build that team very specifically to make sure they can rebound and control the paint.

They would have those three and no one else on the roster assuming a sign and trade with Toronto.

I believe the only thing they would have to fill out the roster is the MLE, the veterans thing, and minimum salaries.

I don't see how that would create a contender. Players will take the MLE to chase rings. I don't see them taking half a million for a ring.

I don't agree with that exactly. The Big Three were not just great, but they fit together. Ray Allen was the Shooter, Pierce was the Scorer, KG was the Defender/Rebounder. There was no way that Boston was going to be a weak interior defensive team with the personnel, and after aquiring Posey and PJ Brown, Boston was pretty much guaranteed to be an elite defensive team that could score inside, outside, off the dribble, in the post or on the catch. It's not like they got 3 random players, they got three guys who really fit into their roles.

Lebrno and Wade are great scorers and passers, but neither is exceptional at catching and shooting. Sadly, Bosh is probably the best of the three at catching and shooting. Now that makes him great as a complement when those guys penetrate, but it's not a good look for him when he's in the post. Chalmers is a solid 3 point shooter, so that helps some, but if you're Miami, it's smarter to spend that "3rd max guy" money on spot up shooters, defenders and rebounders. You could make a bomb squad with that money, but blowing it on 3 guys is an interesting choice.

This is a team that potentially gets beat on the glass and has a weak interior defensive presence, but also doesn't have the shooters to compensate in terms of pace and spreading the floor. A team like Phoenix doesn't need individual rebounders as badly because with the floor spread, they can put rebounders out of position. With Bron/Bosh/Wade, the potential problem is most of the offense is close to the rim, so the bigs will have to do a lot of the rebounding.

All three players are great defensive rebounders, but you are talking about two perimeter guys, so there is nothing any of them could do to stop a guy like Dwight, or a pair like Gasol/Odom from doing the Mikan drill in the playoffs. And the thing is, the Heat have the money to spend on someone to get roleplayers who can spread the floor and be big bodies.

Yeah, I think that if they had Bosh and Wade, the rest of the salary would be much better spent on good 3-8 than on another great player.

True, but it's not like Wade is exactly the model of health. If he's injured at some point during the year, is Bron, Bosh and a team full of MLE guys really an attractive title contender? Especially considering the arguments against the Knicks and Bulls are about the squads missing key role players.

LeBron + Wade + Bosh is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than KG, Pierce, Ray though.

I don't know if Miami would still pursue LBJ if this is true though.

I can see and understand that side of things, but we are talking about two of the three best players in the entire league (and IMO, the two best) being on the same team. The match up problems that would be created would be insane, especially when you throw Bosh in there.

I'm just saying if your the Heat and you get Wade, LeBron, and Bosh, you are going to need to get a big center who can guard Dwight, and a decent point guard, plus some shooters off the bench. If you can't get that then I don't see that team winning it all. If I were LeBron, I'd go to Chicago.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

I dunno, I don't put much stock into what people said before all of this...

I know I personally changed my opinion on different specific topics concerning Miami all the time by the day.

Even though Miami has looked relatively terrible, I'm still going to wait until they at least have their roster fully healthy and in a playoff series before I judge them and look back at what people were predicting in the summer.

Plus there could be a coaching change which might make a difference.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: 11/22-11/28 Game Discussion Thread

I dunno, I don't put much stock into what people said before all of this...

I know I personally changed my opinion on different specific topics concerning Miami all the time by the day.

Can't believe you just said that.