I can vouch for Rick Berry being a jerk. I met him at an autograph signing when I was young and he didn't say a word to anybody. Just signed his picture (no cards or anything else allowed, unless you bought the card from it. He charged fifty bucks for one card, on top of the ten bucks we paid to stand in line) and just rushed everybody throw. Never did like the guy after that. I only kept his autograph because he's in the HOF.
Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
I can vouch for Rick Berry being a jerk. I met him at an autograph signing when I was young and he didn't say a word to anybody. Just signed his picture (no cards or anything else allowed, unless you bought the card from it. He charged fifty bucks for one card, on top of the ten bucks we paid to stand in line) and just rushed everybody throw. Never did like the guy after that. I only kept his autograph because he's in the HOF. -
Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
If he arguably has better skills/talent than MJ, how is it that he doesn't have more skills/talent than Bird?"I'm addicted to Video Games, and i chase it with a little OS." -Winston ChurchillComment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
Good grief...I am seriously tired of the Kobe stuff. I get it people, this generation believes Kobe is better than Oreos.Originally posted by Gibson88Anyone who asked for an ETA is not being Master of their Domain.
It's hard though...especially when I got my neighbor playing their franchise across the street...maybe I will occupy myself with Glamore Magazine.Comment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
And that's why Bird is better than Kobe. Kobe might be more physically gifted and talented, but Bird put all his abilities together much better, in my opinion. Either way, the players aren't exactly very comparable anyway in terms of skillsets and all that.Comment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
Im no Kobe fan but when his career is over he looks like he on his way to eclipsing Magic and Bird.
I dont think "rescuing" the sport should be factored into this discussion. Or even whether or not a player refused to sign your little cousin's basketball.
Most of the great players are jerks w/ a dominant personality. Jordan was no angel, so that shouldnt even be factored in.
I think the convo should be on court. Numbers, rings, MVPs, records. Not sneaker sales or tv ratings.
Wilt playing against "inferior" talent is also a slippery slope IMO.
Kobe didnt play during the Hand Check Era which is much less forgiving defensively compared to the soft NBA of the past 10 years.
Ill agree w/ Kareem,Jordan,and Russell.
After those three I think its up to debate for Oscar,Magic, Bird, Shaq, Wilt, and Kobe for the last two slots.
Shaq has a real real good resume.Comment
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i just feel as though he gets shortchanged for his skills because people don't like his personality or things he's done/does. on a skill for skill basis he can probably claim to be the best ever, but there are still a number of players i would rather build a team around than him, and there are guys with better careers.xbox gt - bmorerep87
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
i think a point that even bill simmons mentioned in his book that people overlook is that bird didn't have to face athletic swingmen, and the few he played were the ones that gave him the most trouble offensively and defensively.
i'm still hoping to see an argument from someone to show why bird is/was better. i don't mean career-wise or legacy-wise, i mean in a vacuum, who is the better player? it's a different question than who ranks higher, it's more of a question of who is better at basketball. it produces answers like me taking hakeem over russell and kobe over bird.
however, i do think bird maxed out everything his body could give him in the way of physical gifts and his own talent. i certainly don't want to take away from him, he's pretty much locked into my top 5 for the foreseeable future.xbox gt - bmorerep87
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
On a skill for skill basis IMO it's Wilt and Hakeem neck and neck on top and Kobe's not even close. With Wilt the numbers and stories speak for themselves, with Hakeem the videos and highlight reels tell the story. The things Hakeem did will never ever be duplicated by anyone and Wilt could do absolutely anything at different points of his career whether he needed to be a scorer, rebounder, distributor, or defensive anchor.Last edited by Taur3asi3; 12-28-2010, 12:49 AM.As Shaquille O'Neal left the Suns practice court, he yelled out, "Alvin's the coach. We must be the Clippers. And I must be Olowokandi. Nooooo!"Comment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
Have you seen enough footage of Wilt to make that kind of statement? Sure Hakeem, now his skill for a 7 footer is just mind boggling.
From the few full games I've witnessed with Wilt [not sure of his age at the time] I didn't see anything that special. Just a guy bigger than everyone else who looked a bit flat footed. Obviously he had skills but to set a gap between he and Kobe that wide seems foolish.
Kobe on the other hand is one of the most skilled guards to ever walk onto a basketball court. I mean what is this "skill for skill basis" you're speaking of? Kobe has every single skill a basketball player strives to master.Comment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
I'm more impressed in Wilt's case by a center averaging between 7 and 8 assists per game while still getting God only knows how many blocks, 24 points, and 24 rebounds. All while being a defensive anchor, pace be damned thats impressive. Regardless of why he decided to do it and intentions. There is nothing a basketball player can do that Wilt couldn't do.
To throw out another name i'll say prime Arvydas Sabonis. He could do everything as well, score inside and outside, distribute, defend, everything.As Shaquille O'Neal left the Suns practice court, he yelled out, "Alvin's the coach. We must be the Clippers. And I must be Olowokandi. Nooooo!"Comment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
Right, so he put up Godly numbers, we all know this, but I just don't think there's enough film on him to make the kind of distinction you did regarding he and Kobe.
Just my opinion, but if you've seen several full games of him from various seasons maybe you can show me where I can view them.
Like I said, Kobe really lacks no skill, except decision making really. He doesn't have the Godly stats but he does hold numerous records that are impressive in their own right considering the competition. Wilt had virtually no competition.Comment
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I think we have differing points of view on how to determine a players skill level. With regards to Wilt there is footage but it's primarily from his Lakers days when he was an old man but from those games its easy to see how skilled he was as an old man what he could do to get a general idea of how he was in his younger days. The lack of footage of Wilt's younger days is made up with stats, anecdotes, stories, interviews, and things of that nature. I think that if you have enough supporting evidence like those then it makes up for the lack of footage.
With prime Sabonis theres only a handful of games maybe not counting his national team games against some NBA teams and in the olympics but theres enough anecdotal and supporting evidence to suggest that he was supremely skilled in his prime and one of the most skilled players ever.
I don't believe in needing to actually see an abudance of footage of someone to come to a conclusion if you do the proper research to make reach the conclusion.
The MixMakers forum has several old games from the 70's-today up for download all in pretty good quality.As Shaquille O'Neal left the Suns practice court, he yelled out, "Alvin's the coach. We must be the Clippers. And I must be Olowokandi. Nooooo!"Comment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
Yeah maybe we do, in the end I still just think it's a bit unfair to say skill-wise, Kobe is nowhere near Wilt.
I know we're comparing across positions, but really there's nothing Kobe can't do. So I'm not sure how you can just toss Kobe out of the discussion like that.
I still believe Wilt's competition was on a different playing field than Kobe's. So those stats I take with a grain of salt.
Now in the end, Kobe is nowhere near the top 5 players of All-Time, but IMO I don't necessarily put Wilt there either.
The film study is necessary to me, but I guess that's why these types of discussions are so open ended. Nobody was around back then to watch games like we do now. I'm not mad at anyone for putting Wilt in the top 5 and I'm not mad at anyone for saying Kobe shouldn't be in the top 5.
Just my .02Comment
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Re: Top 5 NBA Players of All Time
Bill Simmons actually has a very interesting chapter in his book about the Russell/Wilt argument that addresses the "myth" that Russell played on better teams all the way through.Actually, there were a number of players taller than 6'9" back in Wilt's day. He was just stronger and faster than them. Russell was a better team player and was on better teams than Wilt. But, Wilt, just for the numbers he put up and the ease of which he put them up, is a top five player.
He averaged the 7 and 8 assists because it's all he tried to do after he won his first championship. He said he needed a new goal, and so he set out to lead the league in assists, whether it hurt his team or not, often passing up open shots to try to pad his assist numbers, and then blaming his teammates for missing shots if they lost.I'm more impressed in Wilt's case by a center averaging between 7 and 8 assists per game while still getting God only knows how many blocks, 24 points, and 24 rebounds. All while being a defensive anchor, pace be damned thats impressive. Regardless of why he decided to do it and intentions. There is nothing a basketball player can do that Wilt couldn't do.
To throw out another name i'll say prime Arvydas Sabonis. He could do everything as well, score inside and outside, distribute, defend, everything.
and I wouldn't call Wilt a "defensive anchor". He was big and blocked his share of shots, but people forget that Wilt constantly focussed on never fouling out of a game, so he would stop playing defense when he would pick up his 4th or 5th foul.
Not to mention, no one that played with, against, or saw Russell & Chamberlain says Chamberlain was the better player.
So for that, my Top 5 goes
1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Jabbar
5. Bird
and I won't even touch on the Bird/Kobe argument that was going on earlier. All I'll say is, you could have put Bird on any team in the league, and he would've won because he made everyone on his team play to their best abilities. at no point in his career has anyone EVER said that about Kobe.
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