Why Wilt Chamberlain is one of the most underrated of all-time

[Atticus Deutsch]

Gentlemen at OS, You Know the stats, You have the opinions, you are the best, help me tell these noobs why wilt is one of the best, if not the best.

[BlueNGold]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

Wilt underrated? The hell.....

[st0rmb11]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

I think everyone recognizes and praises his numbers and abilities. But the reason everyone "underrates" him, is because he CLEARLY lacked 1.) the ability to make his teammates better, 2.) the killer desire to win, and 3.) a grasp of what it means to be a team.

He spent his career going for nothing but stats. The one season he committed himself to winning (1967), he and the 76ers dominated the league. The next year after winning? He looked for a new challenge, so he decided to try to lead the league in assists. He just clearly lacked that Jordan/Russell drive.

As far as talent goes, I don't think anyone would argue that he wasn't one of the top 2 guys all-time at being able to do anything he wanted if he set his mind to it (along with Jordan)

[BlueNGold]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

I think everyone recognizes and praises his numbers and abilities. But the reason everyone "underrates" him, is because he CLEARLY lacked 1.) the ability to make his teammates better, 2.) the killer desire to win, and 3.) a grasp of what it means to be a team.

He spent his career going for nothing but stats. The one season he committed himself to winning (1967), he and the 76ers dominated the league. The next year after winning? He looked for a new challenge, so he decided to try to lead the league in assists. He just clearly lacked that Jordan/Russell drive.

As far as talent goes, I don't think anyone would argue that he wasn't one of the top 2 guys all-time at being able to do anything he wanted if he set his mind to it (along with Jordan)

This.

It's pretty funny how well Wilt would have fit in this era with the mentality he had most of his career.

[ZM Punk]

Re: Why Wilt Chamberlain is one of the most underrated of all-time

Are you sure you didn't mean overrated?

[Cebby]

Re: Why Wilt Chamberlain is one of the most underrated of all-time

Are you sure you didn't mean overrated?

Seriously

Much like the Pro Football board with QBs, people have the inability to properly understand that statistics have to be compared with the year they were posted in.

Everyone posted insane stats in the 50s and 60s. Obviously Wilt posted the most insane stats, but if you were just inserting players numbers from those years into today's game you have second team All NBA players who would make Lebron's numbers look pedestrian. Every first team All NBA player from the mid-late 50s through the 60s would unanimously win the MVP over Jordan's best year with the same numbers.

[RonnieG]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

I think everyone recognizes and praises his numbers and abilities. But the reason everyone "underrates" him, is because he CLEARLY lacked 1.) the ability to make his teammates better, 2.) the killer desire to win, and 3.) a grasp of what it means to be a team.

He spent his career going for nothing but stats. The one season he committed himself to winning (1967), he and the 76ers dominated the league. The next year after winning? He looked for a new challenge, so he decided to try to lead the league in assists. He just clearly lacked that Jordan/Russell drive.

As far as talent goes, I don't think anyone would argue that he wasn't one of the top 2 guys all-time at being able to do anything he wanted if he set his mind to it (along with Jordan)

On one hand, most people realize his numbers are a little inflated because of the era he played in. In that sense, he's overrated.

But on the other hand, the discussion is almost always distilled into a discussion of rings. This is an oversimplifaction, of course, but its, nonetheless, prevalent. So because of this flawed form of reasoning, he becomes underrated.

I dont think the "makes his teammates better" argument applies to centers as much.

[ffaacc03]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

On one hand, most people realize his numbers are a little inflated because of the era he played in. In that sense, he's overrated.

But on the other hand, the discussion is almost always distilled into a discussion of rings. This is an oversimplifaction, of course, but its, nonetheless, prevalent. So because of this flawed form of reasoning, he becomes underrated.

I dont think the "makes his teammates better" argument applies to centers as much.

The misconception lies within the premise that only the PG should make his teammates better ... every position should, as it is a team sport ... and offense is not the only area of impact, so does defense.

A few Cs that made/make their teammates better (thus not limited to them):

Russell - Olajuwon - Shaq - Howard

[RonnieG]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

The misconception lies within the premise that only the PG should make his teammates better ... every position should, as it is a team sport ... and offense is not the only area of impact, so does defense.

A few Cs that made/make their teammates better (thus not limited to them):

Russell - Olajuwon - Shaq - Howard

That wasnt really a premise. No mention was made of PGs. For much of Wilts career, the offense was designed to feed him the ball so he can shoot. He didnt play in the same offense that Russell did and when you look at Russells career shooting %, you can kind of see why it wasnt designed to get him the ball.

And with the way the offense went through Wilt, Im sure the open shots were there for his teammates. What they did with them, has little to do with Wilt.

Also, why does no one ever talk about what Russell averaged vs Wilt? Its always a one sided discussion that focusses on Wilt scoring 27 ppg (which is still HOF worthy). Its like Russell gets a pass even though he was only really strong at defense. His shooting % for a center from that era is embarrassing.

[lebronmvp09]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

Wilt today would probably put up stats a little better than Lebron,because there's so much more talent,even though he played with oscar robertson, jerry west, bill russell and elgin baylor.which would make him the best today if he played, I put him at the same level as jordan on terms of what he can do,he could do whatever he wanted on the court,he just focused on stats because he knew they measure individual play,he wanted to prove he was the best using his stats.he probably thought"bill russell can win as many rings as he wants,championships show how good your team was,people can always say it was his team that got him his chips, you don't have that excuse for stats".

[BlueNGold]

Re: ***Why Wilt Chamberlian Is One Of The Most Under Rated Player Of All Time***

Also, why does no one ever talk about what Russell averaged vs Wilt? Its always a one sided discussion that focusses on Wilt scoring 27 ppg (which is still HOF worthy). Its like Russell gets a pass even though he was only really strong at defense. His shooting % for a center from that era is embarrassing.

Simple. Would you rather have a guy that could defend the basket, make his teammates better and shut down opposing players or a guy that scores a bunch of points but is only looking to get his, plays bad defense and ruins team chemistry?

[ParisB]

Re: Why Wilt Chamberlain is one of the most underrated of all-time

I can guarantee none of you guys saw either play. You just go off what you have heard over the years or read in biased books from a Celtics fan (lol, Bill Simmons is a joke). It's too easy to simply say "oh Wilt only cared about stats!" Well, he was obviously the best in his era nonetheless. Maybe Russell didn't care about stats because he had no choice, he wasn't as good. He played on the better team in a league that was small and top heavy (boston was by far the most loaded team in Russell's era), the 9 championships are the most overrated stat in the NBA. It's like how the Yankees won something like 20 of their championships when they were the only big team back then in the early 1900's and had 95% of the talent on their roster.

[BlueNGold]

Re: Why Wilt Chamberlain is one of the most underrated of all-time

I can guarantee none of you guys saw either play.

No way, really?

The guy retired in '73. More than half the people on this site weren't even born then, so how do you expect anyone here to have seen him play aside from a couple Youtube videos?

It's like calling someone out for never seeing Jim Brown play.

[ParisB]

Re: Why Wilt Chamberlain is one of the most underrated of all-time

No way, really?

The guy retired in '73. More than half the people on this site weren't even born then, so how do you expect anyone here to have seen him play aside from a couple Youtube videos?

It's like calling someone out for never seeing Jim Brown play.

Exactly. You just don't get the same sense of what a player was really like unless you watched the games regularly from that era and can put things in perspective. Pulling out stats or watching highlights of each, or reading from Bill Simmons doesn't give you the full picture.

I can watch highlights from Shareef Abdur-Rahim and throw some statistics and make a decision that he was as one of the better players of his time. Or I can point to Derek Fisher's championships and make a claim that he was a "winner" and one of the best of our time, and that Stockton doesn't hold a candle to him because Fisher only cared about winning and Stockton wanted to do nothing but get assists for selfish reasons. Arguments like that seem to naive.

It makes it even more silly when we're trying to convince each other of the other player's psyche like "oh he didn't care about winning, he just wants stats".

You can make claims like that against Kobe or Lebron in 20 years, especially if it's coming from a biased source. Although we know better because we saw them play.

I just don't buy the reasons people are picking Russell. They're all one-sided and usually end up pointing to the 9 rings without considering the circumstances or anything else.

[The15thunter]

Re: Why Wilt Chamberlain is one of the most underrated of all-time

Exactly. You just don't get the same sense of what a player was really like unless you watched the games regularly from that era and can put things in perspective. Pulling out stats or watching highlights of each, or reading from Bill Simmons doesn't give you the full picture.

I can watch highlights from Shareef Abdur-Rahim and throw some statistics and make a decision that he was as one of the better players of his time. Or I can point to Derek Fisher's championships and make a claim that he was a "winner" and one of the best of our time, and that Stockton doesn't hold a candle to him because Fisher only cared about winning and Stockton wanted to do nothing but get assists for selfish reasons. Arguments like that seem to naive.

It makes it even more silly when we're trying to convince each other of the other player's psyche like "oh he didn't care about winning, he just wants stats".

You can make claims like that against Kobe or Lebron in 20 years, especially if it's coming from a biased source. Although we know better because we saw them play.

I just don't buy the reasons people are picking Russell. They're all one-sided and usually end up pointing to the 9 rings without considering the circumstances or anything else.

so if we discredit all reports from teammates, coaches, reports and fans from that time, their head-to-head records, championships, as well as wilt himself saying that winning doesn't mean as much to him, what do we look at? stats? that's really all wilt supporters can cling to in this discussion.