The worst pick up players.

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  • DukeC
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 5751

    #376
    Re: The worst pick up players.

    Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
    Don't jump then lol.

    Only possible solution I can think of in that situation.
    I would agree if you're jumping while closing out. But him actively trying to get a foul called (by forcing himself into you)? Nah, don't play that. Try that **** on me and I'll just start nudging the elbow when you shoot.

    Comment

    • ProfessaPackMan
      Bamma
      • Mar 2008
      • 63852

      #377
      Re: The worst pick up players.

      I'd say there is some(not many)cases when it's acceptable to do but it usually depends on the situation at hand.
      #RespectTheCulture

      Comment

      • DukeC
        Banned
        • Jul 2011
        • 5751

        #378
        Re: The worst pick up players.

        Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
        I'd say there is some(not many)cases when it's acceptable to do but it usually depends on the situation at hand.
        I can understand why someone would use it in a situation. Like, if they picked up thier dribble, they can't shoot, none of thier teammates are open, then they pumpfake and you bite on it? I could see it being used in that situation as a bailout foul.

        That's literally it though.

        Comment

        • Nathan_OS
          MVP
          • Jun 2011
          • 4465

          #379
          Originally posted by DukeC
          I can understand why someone would use it in a situation. Like, if they picked up thier dribble, they can't shoot, none of thier teammates are open, then they pumpfake and you bite on it? I could see it being used in that situation as a bailout foul.

          That's literally it though.
          Then if you jump, I'll just keep my pivot, and lean in around you.
          PSN: MajorJosephx

          Comment

          • VDusen04
            Hall Of Fame
            • Aug 2003
            • 13028

            #380
            Re: The worst pick up players.

            Originally posted by Nathan_OS
            Then if you jump, I'll just keep my pivot, and lean in around you.
            Right on. There's nothing wrong with using a pumpfake to gain an advantage in-game. That's cool with me. I just never understood those who used it merely to draw fouls, just so they could re-check the ball and start the tedious process all over again.

            I'll admit though, I bite on pump fakes. I mean, I think that's the reason of pumpfakes. I'm surprised some folks made counteracting the "lean for contact on jumpshot" guy seem so easy. It's almost like saying, "Don't like not playing with And-1 calls? Then just never call a foul and always make your shots."

            Basically, it's not that easy. If all defenders never jumped to contest shots, there'd be a lot of uncontested shots out there. And if no defender responded to pumpfakes, there'd be a lot less pump fakes out there. The lean-for-foul in pick-up ball just serves no point. It'd be like me consciously and purposely running to the sideline for no reason just so I could throw the ball off my defender and out of bounds to retain possession. Sure, it's a legal play, but why would I actively seek out such a maneuver?

            Comment

            • ProfessaPackMan
              Bamma
              • Mar 2008
              • 63852

              #381
              Re: The worst pick up players.

              Well I don't think players are going into the game with the mindset of "Ok, when I get the ball on Offense I'm going to pumpfake players to death to try and draw contact everytime I touch the ball and worry about scoring later", which is why I don't think it's a big deal on the court.

              Remember, when you're on Offense, you're not thinking about how long it takes for them to score. You're just trying to find a way TO score regardless of how long it takes(which can be anywhere from a few seconds to maybe 1-2 mins give or take).
              #RespectTheCulture

              Comment

              • wwharton
                *ll St*r
                • Aug 2002
                • 26949

                #382
                Re: The worst pick up players.

                Originally posted by Nathan_OS
                I never jump. I close out .


                Yes, my friend, they do. Dude never gets the call though, then the bickering starts lol
                That's my point though... play D (like you say you do). I understand the extreme but that's true of anything.

                Originally posted by DukeC
                There's literally no benefit in streetball though. No free-throws, no foul tally, nothing. Just a chance for you to injure yourself or the other person on the way down after doing that nonsense.
                I disagree. I'm a jump shooter, and have become more of one as I've gotten older because there's no benefit to driving hard when you're playing with guys that will just hammer you if you get a step (ironic considering what we're talking about). If you're guarding me and you're going to jump every time there's a hint of me shooting then I'll never get a clean shot off, and in REAL basketball that's horrible defense. In that case, I may start pump faking and if you keep jumping then I'm going to take the foul until you stop.

                It's just like guys that think they're playing good D by getting as close as possible and hand checking. I'll go hard at them and call every foul to get them to calm the hell down with that too. I want to play basketball, not some bastardized version of it that's become acceptable on the streets, lol.

                Originally posted by VDusen04
                Right on. There's nothing wrong with using a pumpfake to gain an advantage in-game. That's cool with me. I just never understood those who used it merely to draw fouls, just so they could re-check the ball and start the tedious process all over again.

                I'll admit though, I bite on pump fakes. I mean, I think that's the reason of pumpfakes. I'm surprised some folks made counteracting the "lean for contact on jumpshot" guy seem so easy. It's almost like saying, "Don't like not playing with And-1 calls? Then just never call a foul and always make your shots."

                Basically, it's not that easy. If all defenders never jumped to contest shots, there'd be a lot of uncontested shots out there. And if no defender responded to pumpfakes, there'd be a lot less pump fakes out there. The lean-for-foul in pick-up ball just serves no point. It'd be like me consciously and purposely running to the sideline for no reason just so I could throw the ball off my defender and out of bounds to retain possession. Sure, it's a legal play, but why would I actively seek out such a maneuver?
                You just explained it yourself. You bite on pump fakes. I want to be able to take a step and pull up. Something's gotta give. I never understood the idea that your bad D should be rewarded in limiting my game.

                Comment

                • The 24th Letter
                  ERA
                  • Oct 2007
                  • 39373

                  #383
                  Originally posted by DukeC
                  There's literally no benefit in streetball though. No free-throws, no foul tally, nothing. Just a chance for you to injure yourself or the other person on the way down after doing that nonsense.
                  Exactly. Your simply not going to get that call away from the basket where I play. It's like coming out to the court trying to draw offensive fouls....**** just ain't gonna work lol

                  And that goes for street or high level recreational..

                  Comment

                  • Nathan_OS
                    MVP
                    • Jun 2011
                    • 4465

                    #384
                    Do you guys believe in Charging calls?
                    PSN: MajorJosephx

                    Comment

                    • wwharton
                      *ll St*r
                      • Aug 2002
                      • 26949

                      #385
                      Re: The worst pick up players.

                      Originally posted by The 24th Letter
                      Exactly. Your simply not going to get that call away from the basket where I play. It's like coming out to the court trying to draw offensive fouls....**** just ain't gonna work lol

                      And that goes for street or high level recreational..
                      Maybe you guys are talking about extreme examples. If you try to do the Durant swing through or a pump fake and then jump toward a guy then that's one thing. No way those are (or should be) called. But if I pump fake and your jump is going to pretty much result in you landing on me, I'm calling that every time.

                      Comment

                      • ProfessaPackMan
                        Bamma
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 63852

                        #386
                        Re: The worst pick up players.

                        If you're guarding me and you're going to jump every time there's a hint of me shooting then I'll never get a clean shot off, and in REAL basketball that's horrible defense. In that case, I may start pump faking and if you keep jumping then I'm going to take the foul until you stop.

                        It's just like guys that think they're playing good D by getting as close as possible and hand checking. I'll go hard at them and call every foul to get them to calm the hell down with that too. I want to play basketball, not some bastardized version of it that's become acceptable on the streets, lol.
                        Bingo sir.
                        #RespectTheCulture

                        Comment

                        • Nathan_OS
                          MVP
                          • Jun 2011
                          • 4465

                          #387
                          I'm gonna hand check you till you hate my guts.

                          Common sense tells you to stop jumping everytime he pump fakes .
                          PSN: MajorJosephx

                          Comment

                          • The 24th Letter
                            ERA
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 39373

                            #388
                            Originally posted by wwharton
                            Maybe you guys are talking about extreme examples. If you try to do the Durant swing through or a pump fake and then jump toward a guy then that's one thing. No way those are (or should be) called. But if I pump fake and your jump is going to pretty much result in you landing on me, I'm calling that every time.
                            See I can agree with that.

                            But I will also say if I do bite on a pump fake and jump toward you....and you sit and wait there so we can collide....that's bull....and you risking injury for no reason...

                            EDIT: if we are playing with a timer and you have to take that shot then that's different situation...ill gladly give you the ball.
                            Last edited by The 24th Letter; 04-11-2012, 11:12 AM.

                            Comment

                            • The 24th Letter
                              ERA
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 39373

                              #389
                              I mean technically, if someone continues to barrel to the basket, you can step in front of them to take a charge per basketball rules...

                              But it doesn't work like that....some things simply don't apply to the rec level
                              Last edited by The 24th Letter; 04-11-2012, 11:14 AM.

                              Comment

                              • VDusen04
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 13028

                                #390
                                Re: The worst pick up players.

                                Originally posted by wwharton
                                You just explained it yourself. You bite on pump fakes. I want to be able to take a step and pull up. Something's gotta give. I never understood the idea that your bad D should be rewarded in limiting my game.
                                I think there's a disconnect between the situation I'm picturing and the situation you're picturing. Pump fakes, contact, and the insinuating foul call are totally normal and a part of the game. If a person drives hard to the bucket and I'm planning on them rising to the rim, only they pump fake, sending me airborne into their space, at which point they shoot, draw heavy contact, and call a foul, I have no issues. If someone's rushing off a screen to pop from 15, realizes I'm leaving my feet, and decides to pump-fake instead of shooting because I'm flailing my body wildly toward them, again absorbing a foul, still not an issue.

                                On the contrary, as you suggested a few posts after the one I quoted, I am in fact talking about people who take it to the extreme. I have literally played against a player whose game plan on offense at many times was to draw pump-fake fouls. There was nothing circumstantial about it. He'd go to a spot, pump-fake and specifically make a point to lean into the contact and draw a foul, often whether I was airborne or not, bailing out on attempting to finish the jump shot in the process. It wasn't a matter of out-of-control me jumping into his body. It was more a matter of jumping-straight-up-me being sought out by a ultra-leaning offensive player looking for contact from 15 feet.

                                To be clear, maybe his play would make sense in a real game, were he to be rewarded with two free throws. But it doesn't add up in streetball, just how intentionally fouling in the backcourt might make sense in real life when trailing near the end of a game, but serves absolutely no purpose on the street.

                                Also, for the sake of my sports forum pick-up basketball street cred, I want to be sure to clarify I don't bite on all pump fakes (or anything close to it). I bite on a normal defender's amount of pump fakes. Everyone does. Anyone who claims to never jump to contest a shot or bite on a pump fake is not being truthful

                                Originally posted by Nathan_OS
                                Do you guys believe in Charging calls?
                                I think we may have covered this one earlier in the thread, but I've got no issue addressing it again. Technically, drawing a charge would be a legal play, but I'm not sure it's something that fits in well to any kind of pick-up ball. I can count the amount of charges I've seen in street games on one hand.

                                The biggest issue I have with street charges is their potential for danger. If charges were fully acceptable in street games, I'm quite certain I'd have experienced 20 times the amount of undercuts from defenders arriving late to the scene than I do now. There'd be tons of people who think they're about to be in position to take a charge, only I've already taken off by the time they arrive and they're actually serving as a leap frog device. I'd find it almost equally as dangerous for the defender taking the charge. Concrete's a lot tougher than hardwood.

                                Further, I feel accepting charges would throw off the general hierarchy of how streetball works. Right now, I attack the paint as hard as humanly possible because I know street rules state one must be willing to play through anything but the most significant of contact, meaning I must go hard enough to brush off hacks, swings, and bodies. However, if charges were allowed, I feel that'd in turn force offensive players to stand for less contact from the defender to retain a level playing field. Elsewise, it'd create a situation where I'd be hacked to high-hell on my way to the basket only to have someone undercutting me once I got there. Something would have to give.

                                Also, charges seem like a tough one to judge. As I alluded to earlier, how many times have you guys gone to draw charges in organized basketball, only to be whistled for a block instead? They're close calls often needing to be made from an outside prospective. I don't think someone in streetball should be able to call a charge just because they felt they mostly made it to a spot before being run over (as opposed to being entirely at the spot). Further, would defenders be able to draw charges from beneath the basket?

                                As I said earlier in the thread, about once a year someone will step in front and try to take a charge on me. They'll call it, and more times than not, we'll all respect it (though I might say something about it, often jokingly) because technically it's a legal play. It just seems to be an unwritten rule to not do it though. Someone's already tried to take a charge on me this year, but it was indoors. I didn't quite pick up on what he was doing. Throughout the game, there were 2-3 situations where he was in position to contest me at the rim. Instead, he was just kind of undercutting me. I thought he was afraid or something. Turns out, he was just poorly trying to draw a charge every single play. Finally, he successfully stood himself directly beneath the basket and took a hell of a hit after I finished my layup. He tried to call a charge and was thusly refuted.
                                Last edited by VDusen04; 04-11-2012, 12:07 PM.

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